I think it's more a case of "While the police and security services are dealing with this incident, let's not have loads of politicians out and about needing protection."
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Theresa May calls General Election on 8th June.
- Thread starter northwichcat
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
WelshBluebird
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 4,924
So if campaigning was stopped, why was May allowed to make a speech that very much sounded like a campaign speech!
So the Tories have done the same in the Vale of Clwyd it seems. Thanks for bringing this requirement to my attention, I'm happy to make sure
My mum commented that she'd received a personally addressed letter from the Tories, and that she was rather puzzled. I had just assumed that they were using the electoral roll, but I didn't receive anything specifically addressed to me.
The only leaflets I've seen so far are from the SNP and the Tories, and the latter seem to be sending out loads. There might have been one from the LibDems, but there's nothing from Labour. That said, this seat is a straight SNP/Tory fight, so that doesn't really surprise me.
The most bizarre thing that came through the door was a letter headed "Message to Moray Coastal Communities", and signed by the local Leave Campaign co-ordinator. It goes on about the fact that the Tories did nothing to stem the decline in the local fishing industry and that he will be voting for Angus Robertson (my incumbent MP)!
The only leaflets I've seen so far are from the SNP and the Tories, and the latter seem to be sending out loads. There might have been one from the LibDems, but there's nothing from Labour. That said, this seat is a straight SNP/Tory fight, so that doesn't really surprise me.
The most bizarre thing that came through the door was a letter headed "Message to Moray Coastal Communities", and signed by the local Leave Campaign co-ordinator. It goes on about the fact that the Tories did nothing to stem the decline in the local fishing industry and that he will be voting for Angus Robertson (my incumbent MP)!
northwichcat
Veteran Member
And some of those apprenticeships being offered are a joke
(I'm thinking along the lines of "apprentice Kitchen Porter" or "Apprentice Stock Maintenance on shelves", which are basically a dodge so that the company can employ someone and pay then Apprentice wages instead of the proper min wage with giving them a piece of paper 6 (or so) months down the line saying "congrats you are now a Kitchen Porter, so keep on washing them pots and pans"
I agree there's pretend apprenticeships. Also there's some which sound like a genuine apprenticeship but then the employer doesn't give the apprentice as much time to study for an accompanying qualification as they are legally required to - a Channel 4 investigation found Next were guilty of that.
However, in some fields there are a higher proportion of more useful proper apprenticeships than there were 20 years ago.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Because she can get away with it. She isn't allowed to do a campaign speech from the PM's podium so will claim it was a speech fulfilling her role as PM.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Speaking of keys. Would people be happier if there was a copy of their house door key held at the local town hall, another held at the local police station and another held at their MP's office, with more copies being produced if the government wants to? That's the equivalent of what May and Rudd want to do with digital encryption keys.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
It seems Steve Hilton, who was David Cameron's director of strategy, is tweeting blaming Theresa May for the attacks. UK Business Insider are reporting it here.
Following back to Steve Hilton's Twitter feed it seems that his logic is that May was in charge of the security services for 6 years, and therefore should take responsibility for any failures of strategy there.
Personally, I don't think I'd go as far as Hilton, and I'm a bit surprised by his comments - after all, even a perfectly funded and managed security system is likely to miss some plots - but I think there are questions about the impact of austerity on police and security services. And May's comments yesterday about how things had to change might make for good electioneering but they come across as somewhat odd when she was the one in charge of security before she became PM!
I would also say that Theresa May's speech yesterday comes across to me as panic and kneejerk reaction. And kneejerk reaction is NOT strong and stable Government.
UKBusinessInsider said:
Following back to Steve Hilton's Twitter feed it seems that his logic is that May was in charge of the security services for 6 years, and therefore should take responsibility for any failures of strategy there.
Personally, I don't think I'd go as far as Hilton, and I'm a bit surprised by his comments - after all, even a perfectly funded and managed security system is likely to miss some plots - but I think there are questions about the impact of austerity on police and security services. And May's comments yesterday about how things had to change might make for good electioneering but they come across as somewhat odd when she was the one in charge of security before she became PM!
I would also say that Theresa May's speech yesterday comes across to me as panic and kneejerk reaction. And kneejerk reaction is NOT strong and stable Government.
Last edited:
It must be recalled that the police and security services have stopped many, many other attacks.
A figure of 5 major attacks foiled since Westminster only three months ago is in circulation. They really are very, very good.
It is very difficult to stop someone carrying out a crude attack like Saturday's using readily available equipment like a hire van and some knives. It's not at all impossible the attackers decided to do the attack only very recently, perhaps as part of ISIS's call to launch attacks during Ramadan. The only sure fire way of preventing this sort of thing would be to seriously restrict the freedom of anybody against whom any concerns have been raised, and I'm very sure many members of this forum would object to that.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
It is worth considering the position of Corbyn, McDonald and Abott on things like security, MI5, armed police, links with unsavory groups etc. They may have changed their position on these things over the years but their comments are public record and have not been dealt with.
WHY on earth Corbyn cant come out and say "since I became leader of the opposition I have received briefings from senior police and security officials, not available to a backbench MP, on the threats facing our country. This has led me to change my views on (insert troubling issue). As a leader you are never to grand as to be unable to listen to others. I listened to the experts charged with protecting our country and the threat posed by X,Y or Z is ................................
problem solved!
she is the PM - she has to make a response in that capacity. You and I would be calling her chicken Teresa if she didn't.
WHY on earth Corbyn cant come out and say "since I became leader of the opposition I have received briefings from senior police and security officials, not available to a backbench MP, on the threats facing our country. This has led me to change my views on (insert troubling issue). As a leader you are never to grand as to be unable to listen to others. I listened to the experts charged with protecting our country and the threat posed by X,Y or Z is ................................
problem solved!
she is the PM - she has to make a response in that capacity. You and I would be calling her chicken Teresa if she didn't.
ExRes
Established Member
Finally, someone sensible enough to state the reality
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The statement veered into areas that could be construed as campaigning but the fact remains the PM HAS TO respond to such an attack.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
One poll suggests Labour could get 38% of the votes but will come second with 268 seats - that would be a higher vote percentage than got the Conservatives in to government in 2015. The same poll also suggests the Greens will lose around half of the voters they got in 2015 while the SNP will lose around a fifth of the voters they got in 2015 and UKIP will lose around 75% of the voters they got in 2015. They are also predicting a 1% gain in voters for the Lib Dems resulting in 5 extra seats which suggests they've taken tactical voting in to consideration. The poll also predicts they'll be one Independent MP - Claire Wright for East Devon (currently held by the Conservatives.)
Last edited by a moderator:
Tim R-T-C
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 May 2011
- Messages
- 2,143
It all sounds quite plausible.
With Corbyn in at Labour, the Greens will lose their natural student-left support base.
Certainly at the beginning of the campaign, Labour were pushing hard in areas where they already have a majority, seemingly to increase their vote percentage but not necessarily gain extra seats.
SNP have annoyed a lot of Scots with their continuing talk of referendums and not really getting much done while in Parliament so they might well lose support.
UKIP is essentially pointless now that the Tories have veered hard right and don't seem to have any plans to do anything except a "hard Brexit". Certainly if Mrs May talks a hard game over the next few days after the terrorist attacks, UKIP will have nothing to work with.
Lib Dems... are they even in this election? Not heard much from them, probably still a few more elections before they will ever regain their old support levels.
With Corbyn in at Labour, the Greens will lose their natural student-left support base.
Certainly at the beginning of the campaign, Labour were pushing hard in areas where they already have a majority, seemingly to increase their vote percentage but not necessarily gain extra seats.
SNP have annoyed a lot of Scots with their continuing talk of referendums and not really getting much done while in Parliament so they might well lose support.
UKIP is essentially pointless now that the Tories have veered hard right and don't seem to have any plans to do anything except a "hard Brexit". Certainly if Mrs May talks a hard game over the next few days after the terrorist attacks, UKIP will have nothing to work with.
Lib Dems... are they even in this election? Not heard much from them, probably still a few more elections before they will ever regain their old support levels.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Broadcasters seem to be giving Farron little coverage. He's doing things but they aren't being reported as much as things Nuttall or Sturgeon are doing. There's also been two different election related TV programs featuring Farron which have been postponed from their scheduled times due to terrorist acts. You could argue Vince Cable should be given more TV time than Paul Nuttall - he's better known and much more likely to be an MP after the election.
Last edited by a moderator:
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Andrea Jenkyns was a strong Conservative candidate for Morley & Outwood and she's shown she is willing to criticise her own party policy and cares about local issues while Ed Balls wasn't local and I got the impression he was a MP who was putting his career first.
Interestingly Balls only got 9 votes less in 2015 than what he got in 2010, so it wasn't really a case of Labour losing votes it was a case of the Conservatives getting around additional 1,500 votes from elsewhere.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The Tories don't care about people in Morely or anywhere else in the north outside the leafy shires.
BTW the decent local Tory:
Consistently voted for reducing central government funding of local government
Almost always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits
Almost always voted against a right to remain for EU nationals already in living in the UK
Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
Consistently voted for more restrictive regulation of trade union activity
Generally voted for reducing the rate of corporation tax
Generally voted against measures to reduce tax avoidance
Generally voted against more powers for local councils
Consistently voted against measures to prevent climate change
Generally voted against greater public control of bus services
Consistently voted for phasing out secure tenancies for life
Consistently voted for charging a market rent to high earners renting a council home
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25431/andrea_jenkyns/morley_and_outwood/votes
yeah - most of those should help the good people of Morely. :roll:
Last edited:
northwichcat
Veteran Member
While Ed Balls:
Consistently voted against raising the threshold at which people start to pay income tax (He was happy to see a P/T worker earning £8,000 a year pay income tax.)
Almost always voted against higher taxes on banks
We don’t have enough information to calculate Edward Balls’s position on more restrictive regulation of trade union activity. (Due to him being absent for a vote on the Lawful Industrial Action bill)
Generally voted against local councils keeping money raised from taxes on business premises in their areas
Consistently voted for introducing ID cards
Almost always voted for requiring the mass retention of information about communications
Sounds like the voting record of a Labour MP who always voted in favour of his own party's policies and against other party's policies, regardless of whether they would benefit the people of Morley. And of course voters knew what Ed Balls' voting record was at the 2015 election, Andrea Jenkyns' didn't have a voting record.
Consistently voted against raising the threshold at which people start to pay income tax (He was happy to see a P/T worker earning £8,000 a year pay income tax.)
Almost always voted against higher taxes on banks
We don’t have enough information to calculate Edward Balls’s position on more restrictive regulation of trade union activity. (Due to him being absent for a vote on the Lawful Industrial Action bill)
Generally voted against local councils keeping money raised from taxes on business premises in their areas
Consistently voted for introducing ID cards
Almost always voted for requiring the mass retention of information about communications
Sounds like the voting record of a Labour MP who always voted in favour of his own party's policies and against other party's policies, regardless of whether they would benefit the people of Morley. And of course voters knew what Ed Balls' voting record was at the 2015 election, Andrea Jenkyns' didn't have a voting record.
Last edited by a moderator:
DarloRich
Veteran Member
You and most Tories dont get it do you? How much of that will have a direct impact on people out of work and struggling to make ends meet?
Do you think people care about ID cards when they cant afford to heat their house? Do you think people care about the mass retention of information about communications when you have been sanctioned and have to go to a food bank or go without food
Grow up.
BTW - have you ever been on benefits? Have you ever had to juggle food, heat and light? I have. Come back when you have.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 16,813
Arguments about raising the minimum level of income tax to "take poor people out of tax" are a trojan horse towards obliterating income tax entirely.
After the poorer people are taken out of the tax, the argument shifts to it being a "tax on success" etc etc. And then they demand its abolition.
Meanwhile the replacement indirect taxes hit the poor ridiculously hard by comparison.
After the poorer people are taken out of the tax, the argument shifts to it being a "tax on success" etc etc. And then they demand its abolition.
Meanwhile the replacement indirect taxes hit the poor ridiculously hard by comparison.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
But of course. VAT is a killer when you have nowt. It soaks up an inordinate amount of your available finance. But then many people have never been in that position so have no idea of the impact. The focus on income tax is actually very clever. It looks like generosity on the part of the government but costs them little when considered against the wider tax framework.
Last edited:
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Excuse me? I'm not a Tory and I've only ever voted for left leaning parties in General Elections. I simply pointed out why Labour failed to keep Morley and Outland. Even the Labour Party accept the reasons why Ed Balls lost his seat to the Tories. Why can't you? Oh yes you're one of the momentum idiots who voted for Corbyn and now can't accept the consequences of your own actions.
And yes I have been on benefits - I've been on Jobseekers Allowance and Working Tax Credits. The latter is precisely why I think Labour were stupid to be taxing low earners and then refunding the tax (the following tax year) in the form of WTC - it was a stupid idea and I'm glad the Lib Dems managed to convince the Tories to raise the personal allowance.
Last edited by a moderator:
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I have been called worse. As I said - focus on income tax is clever. The main punishment is via things like VAT.
My point is that electing a Converstive will not help people struggling. The Mp's voting record proves that. It is odd you cant see that things like cuts to local council budgets or a reduction in welfare will hurt people in run down areas more than in the leafy shires.
BTW - I think I am the person least likely to have voted for Corbyn seeing as i didn't. Twice. That should be obvious if you read any of my posts about him. The man is a clown.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I thought you were the poster who said they voted Corbyn over Smith despite not liking Corbyn but maybe that was someone else. If it is then calling you a Corbyn supporter is hardly worse than calling me a Tory.
Andrea Jenkyns was the person who spoke in parliament to criticise one of Iain Duncan Smith's policies I hadn't checked her voting record but Ed Balls' record was hardly winning over the less well off people, with him not wanting to cut taxes for low earners and not wanting to make the bankers pay for their own mess.
I agree that raising VAT wasn't a good policy, especially when so many essential items incur VAT - apparently clothes are a luxury item if you're an adult but not if you're a child!
You wouldn't say that if you knew how active I've been in opposing Cheshire East's proposed cuts to bus subsides. I've managed to get four parliamentary candidates for Tatton to agree that no only are the cuts unjust but the existing bus network in the area need improving so that people without cars can get to jobs in other towns more easily. The only thing I haven't been able to do is get a response from Esther McVey on her view - which is hardly a surprise, she won't talk to voters in my part of the town who are likely to embarrass her.
I actually think it's worse in what are seen as more affluent towns as the minority of working aged people without cars get ignored and a bus service essential for 15 people to get to work is more likely to be withdrawn than one essential for 50 people to get to work.
Last edited by a moderator:
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 16,813
I voted for Burnham because of Corbyn's unilateralist tendencies and his hatred of atomic power.
But the manifesto is one I can pretty much get behind.
But the manifesto is one I can pretty much get behind.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
i shall both apologise and accept your apology. We shall move on the spirit of reconciliation
agreed - although income tax on low earners isnt really that much of an issue. Most people get very good at earning just below the threshold
VAT on fuel is also a big hit even at 5%.
I apologise. I know well the need for rural bus services having lived in North Yorkshire for a while. The last bus was 1963! No car: no leaving the village.
McVey would be embarrassed by any part of the electorate asking her questions so she is best hiding away
cjp
Member
they are STILL not taking effective steps against companies which move profits out of the country to avoid UK taxes which would perhaps have prevented their deciding ..
- under conservatives to go for a reduction in the number of police officers.
- under conservatives to go with the program of watching the NHS being run down and privatised by stealth, - PPI anyone?
- To continue to run down our armed forced - army air force and navy,
- to let affordable housing become a joke
RichmondCommu
Established Member
All that matters is that you make the effort to vote.
Last edited:
My heartfelt condolences go out to the victims and families of the attack in London. But these attackers will not succeed in destroying our democracy. And with a true democracy comes freedom of speech.
At the start of this campaign it was all about May. "Strong and Stable leadership", "put your trust in me and my team". Since then she has avoided as much as she can being in any situation where she can be asked awkward questions or challenged on anything. When she has been challenged she looks very uncomfortable and is extremely evasive. The refusal to condemn Trump for withdrawing from the Paris deal while the other major world leaders did shows what direction she is headed in the future and it certainly isn't in the direction of Europe. Trump is making America more and more isolated on the world stage and that seems to be exactly what May would do to.
I only wish Labour and Corbyn would show some more economic nous as they would definitely get my vote. Decisions decisions on Thursday.....
At the start of this campaign it was all about May. "Strong and Stable leadership", "put your trust in me and my team". Since then she has avoided as much as she can being in any situation where she can be asked awkward questions or challenged on anything. When she has been challenged she looks very uncomfortable and is extremely evasive. The refusal to condemn Trump for withdrawing from the Paris deal while the other major world leaders did shows what direction she is headed in the future and it certainly isn't in the direction of Europe. Trump is making America more and more isolated on the world stage and that seems to be exactly what May would do to.
I only wish Labour and Corbyn would show some more economic nous as they would definitely get my vote. Decisions decisions on Thursday.....
Why?
Here in York my vote is worthless -- it is a very safe Labour seat -- so why should I bother voting.
If I did feel inclined to bother, May and the Tories are out for me because of both Brexit and the manifesto (especially the dementia tax), Labour are out partly because of Corbyn's earlier attitudes to terrorists and partly because of a total lack of confidence in the rest of the leading team, especially Abbott, Thornberry, and the two Marxist/Stalinists McDonald and Milne (yes, I know he's "only" an adviser). There is one other candidate, a LibDem, but they are really just a joke party with policies often apparently left of Labour, so they are out of my reckoning too.
Another thing about Labour is that I am frightened by Momentum, which reminds me of something out of Animal Farm or of certain organisations in the former "people's democracies". I did live for a year in one of those and was fascinated to see just how the party of government operated to keep control of the people. While I might not believe that Corbyn would go down that road, I wouldn't like to bet that McDonald and Milne wouldn't half like to try.
- Status