Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Sarahs_Railway]

Thanks for sharing - good photos. Those 92s need a wash! I've answered your red tail lights question (I think...!)

I'd be a little surprised if the F/liner 66 was a Thunderbird for VTEC - more likely part of the engineering work on-going at Waverley as you suggest. DB have the Thunderbird contract and I don't think 66s are suitable for hauling 225 sets (if indeed they even can?). The 125mph alleged top speed of the 67 is somewhat mythical but they can do 100mph plus and even they struggle with the timings - a 66 with a top whack of 75mph would fall way behind. No ETS either. Did you get its number?

I think the Thunderbird contract involves 3 (or 4?) locos at strategic locations along the ECML - one you'd always expect in/around Kings Cross so the others probably rotate sometimes as to which of the key locations over the rest of the route they are. Or the EDB one was hiding...?!

Hi Timbo thanks for info as usual. 92 came into Euston with red lights leading. I assume the driver just coasted down the slope then used the brakes. Deffo no white lights on front end as he apporached.

 

[Scotrail84]

May I ask also what's the siding next to P10 called?

As Signallerscot says the Klondyke, but aka the south loop siding as before platform 10 was built that was a loop that ran the length of the wall and joined back up at the west end of the station.

 

[Scotrail84]

Hi Timbo thanks for info as usual. 92 came into Euston with red lights leading. I assume the driver just coasted down the slope then used the brakes. Deffo no white lights on front end as he apporached.

He would have just switched them over to tail lights as the train was coming down the platform, many drivers do that when approaching a buffer end on a terminating service.

 

[Scotrail84]

FYI, last nights southbound 1B16 was a 66 and a 73 being used as a generator for ETH.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

He would have just switched them over to tail lights as the train was coming down the platform, many drivers do that when approaching a buffer end on a terminating service.

Thanks Jeff - I assumed the lights were linked to the direction the motors were being asked to work just like the reverse lights on a car. Good to see my pics proved your info from yesterday correct!

 

[Scotrail84]

Thanks Jeff - I assumed the lights were linked to the direction the motors were being asked to work just like the reverse lights on a car. Good to see my pics proved your info from yesterday correct!

Most tail/headlights are manually operated by the driver/guard. One exception that I know off being a class 380, it won't allow headlights at both ends. If headlights are selected at both ends then it automatically sets the end without the master key in it to tail lights only. I think that's correct anyway.

Train lists showed the incorrect loco on 1M16, always worth double checking as per yesterday.

 

[TimboM]

Train lists showed the incorrect loco on 1M16, always worth double checking as per yesterday.

Tim's List had it right

But agree, there's a fair bit of dodgy data flying around out there so always worth trying to corroborate (unless you've actually seen them for yourself... and taken photos etc.!)

 

[GW43125]

As Signallerscot says the Klondyke, but aka the south loop siding as before platform 10 was built that was a loop that ran the length of the wall and joined back up at the west end of the station.

I still know them as NLS, SLS etc. So thank you to you both.

 

[TimboM]

FYI, last nights southbound 1B16 was a 66 and a 73 being used as a generator for ETH.

Pretty sure it was 66739 ("Bluebell Railway") + 73968. Would also appear it was the same pairing on Monday's Aberdeen portions and on Tuesday morning northbound (1A25) too.

It's also reported that after bringing in 1B16 with 73968, the 66 then went on 1S25 this morning (along with 67007 it appears) to Inverness. (73968 went to Craigentinny.) Not sure why?

73966 took over the northbound Aberdeen leg having worked the Fort William portion south yesterday evening...
...73970 completed the musical chairs by taking the northbound Fort Bill portion. It hadn't been involved in the southbound legs last night (Tue eve) as it'd been on its travels to Doncaster/Derby dropping off 37025 and 37421 after the Far North Explorer over the w/e. It only got back to Craigentinny c.8pm...

Would seem there's an issue with 73968, but they're a bit thin on the ground for the 73s at the moment, hence the need to revert to the 66/73 combo.

Of the six Sleeper 73/9s I believe the current status is:

73969/971 are still in Loughborough

73967 failed at Arbroath on 18th May, was next back out on May 26th but had an ETS failure that day and I don't think has worked since. It went down to Doncaster Decoy this afternoon - I'm assuming as a staging post for Loughborough, so that's half of them in Brush...

73966/970 appear to be working OK; but 970 was on it's scenic tour of the UK Sun/Mon/Tue so not available until the northbound legs early Wed am.

73968 seems to be restricted to EHTeL only as above.

Meanwhile the Colas 47 (47749) has been sat at Craigentinny for the past week - not sure if by design or if that's needing attention/an exam etc.?

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

Colas 47 was still at Craigentinny this afternoon. 66 739 "Bluebell Railway" hauled my sleeper one night last year with a 73 tucked in as second loco before the 73's started to go solo. I didnt get the number of the Colas as it was on wrong side of train and I was half asleep!

 

[Scotrail84]

92 014 on 1S25 tonight.

90 042 at the battery end of P1.

92 033 is booked to work 1S26.

 

[Scotrail84]

I still know them as NLS, SLS etc. So thank you to you both.

The NLS went years ago when platforms 20 and 1 went in there.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

Where is 92 010 these days Jeff? For ages she was the ONLY 92 I could find but haven't seen her for some time - just chance? Also are GBRf low on available 92's that FL Skodas are on the main run down to EUS?

 

[Scotrail84]

Where is 92 010 these days Jeff? For ages she was the ONLY 92 I could find but haven't seen her for some time - just chance? Also are GBRf low on available 92's that FL Skodas are on the main run down to EUS?

No idea where it is.

Rather have a 90 than a 92. Much smoother ride with a 90.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

Been hauled behind 92s many times but heard one for first time today. They sound weird! Kind of deep penetrating thrum. Very different from 86's 87;s or even 90's

 

[TimboM]

Where is 92 010 these days Jeff? For ages she was the ONLY 92 I could find but haven't seen her for some time - just chance? Also are GBRf low on available 92's that FL Skodas are on the main run down to EUS?

92010 was on the Polmadie-Glasgow ECS runs last couple of nights.

Been hauled behind 92s many times but heard one for first time today. They sound weird! Kind of deep penetrating thrum. Very different from 86's 87;s or even 90's

That's where their nickname "Dyson" come from. Think it's the traction motor blowers or something (I'm pretending I know, but I think I'm just stringing technical sounding words together.)

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

92010 was on the Polmadie-Glasgow ECS runs last couple of nights.



That's where their nickname "Dyson" come from. Think it's the traction motor blowers or something (I'm pretending I know, but I think I'm just stringing technical sounding words together.)

OK get it now. They do sund like a very big and deep hoover!

 

[TimboM]

92 014 on 1S25 tonight.

90 042 at the battery end of P1.

92 033 is booked to work 1S26.

They usually use the 1S25 (5S95) ECS loco for 1S26 don't they - so will be interesting to see if it is 92033 (which has been in Willesden for the last 10 days or so with only the odd ECS run out) or 90042 ends up working it.

Will find out pretty soon as expect 033 will need to come in on the back of the ECS if it is working 1S26.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

They usually use the 1S25 (5S95) ECS loco for 1S26 don't they - so will be interesting to see if it is 92033 (which has been in Willesden for the last 10 days or so with only the odd ECS run out) or 90042 ends up working it.

Will find out pretty soon as expect 033 will need to come in on the back of the ECS if it is working 1S26.

The 92's have to take over completley when the Mk V rolling stock arrives - there are no alternatives except sticking clients in buses. So why would GBRf use a modified 92 on ECS then rent an FL 90 to do the main run. Surely they should be beating the hell out of the 92's to iron out every problem. They can still hire Class 90 coverage in case of failure in a kind of Thunderbird roll. Hire 3 90's to sit at strategic places and just use the 92's. Or am I being very naive?

 

[TimboM]

Colas 47 was still at Craigentinny this afternoon... I didnt get the number of the Colas as it was on wrong side of train and I was half asleep!

It will be 47749. There are only two other Colas 47s and one's at Barrow Hill for repairs/exam and the other is Stored at Washwood Heath.

Where is 92 010 these days Jeff? For ages she was the ONLY 92 I could find but haven't seen her for some time - just chance? Also are GBRf low on available 92's that FL Skodas are on the main run down to EUS?

The locos get moved around a fair bit - there's some planned rotations for operational reasons (I would assume for things such as getting locos back to "base" at Willesden for exams etc, or to even out the mileage between, say, the Edinburgh portion working (relatively short) vs the "full" N/S runs). On top of that are the fairly regular spanners thrown in the works, such as (minor) faults needing fixing or non-loco factors such as engineering, which mean certain locos need to switch around (sometimes last minute!).

GBRf still have a few more of their 10 operational 92s to go through Loughborough for the "modifications" - 3 are in Loughborough currently (023/028 for further work post-mods and 043 for overhaul/mods) and three are as yet "unmodified" (032/038/044). So I suspect they'll keep the 2x 90s on hire until they've got through a few more of those. I think the 90s are really just then used as part of the pool, so some nights you'll get 1x 90 and 4x 92s, other 2x 90s, 3x 92s etc.

Currently there's 5x 92s (010/014/018/038) and 2x 90s (042/045) available on the Sleepers, along with 86401 and 87002 on ECS duties at Wembley/Euston (although 87002 failed on Mon night). So the 7x 92s/90s between them need to cover the 4 "main" runs + the EDB portion + the Glasgow ECS each night (in any particular combination) - with only 1 "spare".

92032/044 can chip in sometimes, but for half the week one is working the China Clay train and there's also the Class 700 deliveries through the tunnel, so not really a regular option.

 

[TimboM]

The 92's have to take over completley when the Mk V rolling stock arrives - there are no alternatives except sticking clients in buses. So why would GBRf use a modified 92 on ECS then rent an FL 90 to do the main run. Surely they should be beating the hell out of the 92's to iron out every problem. They can still hire Class 90 coverage in case of failure in a kind of Thunderbird roll. Hire 3 90's to sit at strategic places and just use the 92's. Or am I being very naive?

Make a large cup of tea and have a look through this thread...! http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131385

In terms of 92010 being on ECS, there could be a number of reasons - it worked the Lowlander north on Sunday night and 90045 did the GLC-Polmadie ECS. But then on Mon night they went the long way round out of Polmadie via Motherwell which is done sometimes to turn the stock - this resulted in 92010 being at the buffers end and 90045 leading to London - I've no idea if this was done to swap the locos around (e.g. 010 had a problem?) or it was to turn the stock, or there was an engineering possession etc... and the locos swapping roles was a by-product.

With 86101 at Barrow Hill for ETS repair, 87002 failing on Mon night and currently being fixed and 86401 down south (just worked the Lowlander ECS into Euston) they need either a 90 or 92 on the Glasgow ECS.

There's also the opposite argument that they flog Freightliner's 90s and 'save' the mileage on the 92s for next year and the many years after that when they're the only option.

Re. Thunderbird locos, despite the hype, failures mid-WCML on the Sleeper are not very common at all and it just wouldn't stack up commercially to have the cost of locos sitting around "just in case". Freightliner also would quite like their 90s back for intermodal work I believe.

In practice if a rescue loco is needed, it's either at one end or the other (London/Glasgow/Edinburgh) and one of the other 'sleeper'/ECS locos is typically used, or it's the nearest available 66 (whichever freight company) that's called upon for a tow.

 

[TimboM]

92 014 on 1S25 tonight.

90 042 at the battery end of P1.

92 033 is booked to work 1S26.

They usually use the 1S25 (5S95) ECS loco for 1S26 don't they - so will be interesting to see if it is 92033 (which has been in Willesden for the last 10 days or so with only the odd ECS run out) or 90042 ends up working it.

Will find out pretty soon...

86401 took the Lowlander ECS into Euston with no loco on the back. Looked like 90042 moved off the blocks on P1 to the Up Carriage Shed sidings, so if I were a betting man I think it's 90042 on Lowlander duties again, but may be wrong...

 

[Scotrail84]

86401 took the Lowlander ECS into Euston with no loco on the back. Looked like 90042 moved off the blocks on P1 to the Up Carriage Shed sidings, so if I were a betting man I think it's 90042 on Lowlander duties again, but may be wrong...

I don't know as I'm not there to see it but I can tell you on the train list 033 was down as the booked loco to work it forward.

 

[Scotrail84]

The 92's have to take over completley when the Mk V rolling stock arrives - there are no alternatives except sticking clients in buses. So why would GBRf use a modified 92 on ECS then rent an FL 90 to do the main run. Surely they should be beating the hell out of the 92's to iron out every problem. They can still hire Class 90 coverage in case of failure in a kind of Thunderbird roll. Hire 3 90's to sit at strategic places and just use the 92's. Or am I being very naive?

I'm afraid it just doesn't work like that. It's not BR anymore with locos lying about all over the place unfortunately.

 

[TimboM]

I don't know as I'm not there to see it but I can tell you on the train list 033 was down as the booked loco to work it forward.

Don't doubt you mate.

033 was allocated to the Lowlander ECS AFAIK last night and it ended up being 86401 - last brief outing for 033 was Mon night/Tue morning on the Lowlander ECS having been at Willesden for the week prior to that, so maybe it's got some sort of issue...?

 

[alexf380]

Free upgrades to everyone on the Glasgow seats as coach 'H' is out of action.

 

[Scotrail84]

Free upgrades to everyone on the Glasgow seats as coach 'H' is out of action.

North or southbound?

 

[TimboM]

Free upgrades to everyone on the Glasgow seats as coach 'H' is out of action.

I'm assuming you're travelling from Glasgow as you headed North last night? If so, do you know what's hauling - I'm guessing it was 92010 on the ECS and 90045 taking the train South, or vice versa?

 

[TimboM]

90042 confirmed on 1S26 (North Lowlander)

 

[alexf380]

Northbound, should have said! For thr record, I'm on an ALR right now so i wound my way back to London today. 90042 is good news for me as a winning loco.