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Young children on trains

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fairliered

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Instead of a quiet coach, trains should have a noisy coach - for families with young children, people with inadequate, I.e. Apple, headphones, and the sort of inadequate, arrogant businessman who wants the whole train to hear how important his mobile phone conversation is. The rest of us can enjoy the journey in the rest of the train.
I appreciate that this policy may not work in a 153
 
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jon0844

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I used to think like this - until I had kids! They usually demand constant or near-constant attention, and you give as much as you can, but especially once they're into the toddler bracket and they don't literally need you to hold them/feed them/do everything for them like a newborn, you have to take little breaks where you can.

If I'm out in town all day with a toddler, on our feet, talking about all the things we see, explaining why we can't go into every single shop, playing a lot of I Spy, counting things at any opportunity, finding toilets, chasing pigeons etc... by the time we get to the train home we might've been going non-stop for hours. Eventually you just need to be able to say to them "please stop asking me questions/pointing things out/trying to stuff crisps into my mouth and entertain yourself for ten minutes until we get to our stop."

To an onlooker that might seem like a parent who just ignores their child. But you're seeing them for the duration of your train journey and no more. You don't know what else they've been doing or will be doing, you don't know how well or otherwise they're coping with their day/week/life.

Ultimately one of the biggest lessons parenting has taught me is not to criticise other people's parenting if it isn't actively dangerous - and hope they'll afford the same respect to me and mine.
Spot on! Having a breather is a bit different to letting a kid run wild and disrupt others.
 

Drogba11CFC

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I actually have a pair of Sennheiser headphones...which proved inadequate against a noisy baby on a RRB, even at full blast.

I've had the odd bad experience with small children on trains; on a 444 from Winchester to Fareham someone was playing a tablet sans headphones for his child in the quiet coach (although it wouldn't be acceptable in any coach); when I pointed out that this was the quiet coach, he responded (rather smugly I thought) that he could turn turn it off but then his some would start screaming.

Going up to the Warley show in 2014, I ended up with a child next to me from Oxford. She was incredibly well-behaved watching Peppa Pig on a tablet but with headphones so I didn't have to hear any of it...unfortunately she took umbrage at having to get up so that I could disembark at International. (I then found out that there was a Peppa Pig layout there as well. Small wonder I had the hog roast for lunch.)
 

Islineclear3_1

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In my experience, people with autism/aspergers who have sound sensitivities usually wear ear plugs or noise-cancelling earphones which attenuates noisy backgrounds. Many won't leave home without them.

High levels of stress increases the sensitivity of our senses (e.g. hearing)

People with hearing loss have reduced tolerance to loud sounds than people with normal hearing.
 

185143

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Then why didn't you state that when you made the statement I linked to?
That also would have shown your maturity.
Unfortunately we aren't all psychic so can't tell if someone has a "problem" unless they tell us.

Umm... the OP DID state he was on the Autistic Spectrum in Post #1!
 

maire23

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I have hearing loss requiring aids; however when I am on a train I have my earphones in so I can't hear much beyond my music.
Should a child start screaming though it is actually painful. I have fibromyalgia which causes me extreme noise sensitivity to the point where anything loud and high pitched causes me pain. Generally I can't tell there's kids around until they start screaming- then I know about it.
What really annoys me- I was on a train about 4-5 weeks ago and there was a family who had decided that it was their right to take up the wheelchair space with a buggy and a load of luggage and let their five kids run riot. And that they did. I had booked the priority seat (I'm physically disabled but was on my crutches so I didn't book the wheelchair space that time) but I couldn't get near it as this woman thought her kid climbing all over it took priority!
Eventually when the woman distracted her kid, and I shifted. Oh what a look I got until I pointed to my crutches, pointed to my reservation, and pointed to the sign that said 'priority' And don't get me started on those who think their buggies take priority over my wheelchair! I was on a train once where a woman got on with a pushchair and said to me 'you move' in broken English. I pointed to the sign and to my wheelchair and said loudly 'priority! Disabled!' I then pointed at her pushchair and said 'Not priority! Fold!' Her husband looked mortified and apologised and duly folded the buggy.
I don't much have an issue with kids on trains but I do have an issue with parents who have a superiority complex and think everyone and everything should move for their tank like buggies!
 

185143

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I try not to - I find it quite embarrassing

This I can relate to 100%. I was diagnosed quite late with Aspergers (age 14 funnily enough:D-3 years ago). Initially, I wasn't exactly ashamed of it-but it wasn't something I was particularly happy with talking about, something almost certainly not helped by a couple of my friends being a bit less than supportive. I see it as banter now though, and everything's fine. Most people didn't care (I don't mean that negatively!) And I've even found other friends are on the Spectrum too.

I have the view that I can't change my condition, and/or who I am-so why hide it? (Admittedly, I'm not sure if I've mentioned it on the forum before)

Bringing things back onto the forum-I for one look out for the OP's posts, and the inevitable discussion that will follow!:D:D
 
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theageofthetra

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I have hearing loss requiring aids; however when I am on a train I have my earphones in so I can't hear much beyond my music.
Should a child start screaming though it is actually painful. I have fibromyalgia which causes me extreme noise sensitivity to the point where anything loud and high pitched causes me pain. Generally I can't tell there's kids around until they start screaming- then I know about it.
What really annoys me- I was on a train about 4-5 weeks ago and there was a family who had decided that it was their right to take up the wheelchair space with a buggy and a load of luggage and let their five kids run riot. And that they did. I had booked the priority seat (I'm physically disabled but was on my crutches so I didn't book the wheelchair space that time) but I couldn't get near it as this woman thought her kid climbing all over it took priority!
Eventually when the woman distracted her kid, and I shifted. Oh what a look I got until I pointed to my crutches, pointed to my reservation, and pointed to the sign that said 'priority' And don't get me started on those who think their buggies take priority over my wheelchair! I was on a train once where a woman got on with a pushchair and said to me 'you move' in broken English. I pointed to the sign and to my wheelchair and said loudly 'priority! Disabled!' I then pointed at her pushchair and said 'Not priority! Fold!' Her husband looked mortified and apologised and duly folded the buggy.
I don't much have an issue with kids on trains but I do have an issue with parents who have a superiority complex and think everyone and everything should move for their tank like buggies!

I hope he was embarrassed. Their breeding is a lifestyle choice, disability isn't.
 

MCSHF007

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I used to think like this - until I had kids! They usually demand constant or near-constant attention, and you give as much as you can, but especially once they're into the toddler bracket and they don't literally need you to hold them/feed them/do everything for them like a newborn, you have to take little breaks where you can.

If I'm out in town all day with a toddler, on our feet, talking about all the things we see, explaining why we can't go into every single shop, playing a lot of I Spy, counting things at any opportunity, finding toilets, chasing pigeons etc... by the time we get to the train home we might've been going non-stop for hours. Eventually you just need to be able to say to them "please stop asking me questions/pointing things out/trying to stuff crisps into my mouth and entertain yourself for ten minutes until we get to our stop."

To an onlooker that might seem like a parent who just ignores their child. But you're seeing them for the duration of your train journey and no more. You don't know what else they've been doing or will be doing, you don't know how well or otherwise they're coping with their day/week/life.

Ultimately one of the biggest lessons parenting has taught me is not to criticise other people's parenting if it isn't actively dangerous - and hope they'll afford the same respect to me and mine.

So, because you chose to have kids but then feel the need to switch off from the associated parenting duties whilst n a public place everyone there has to make allowances for your need to relax.

No, you're the parent(s). If your kids are acting up you need to do your best to pro-actively deal with it there are then - not let them run riot/'create' while you chill out for xx minutes because you've had a hard day looking after them earlier/elsewhere.

Would you expect fellow travellers to change the brat's nappy should this become necessary because you've had a stessful day coping with the inevitable stresses of parenthood and need to relax a little during a train journey?

I'm sorry, but No!
 
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Sorry, but no. If you were very mature for your age you would have learnt tolerance and understanding, and your comments about children (and dogs) would have been different.

thpse whop claim to be mature for their age, are by and large, like those who have to state their self claimed 'alpha status' usually demonstrating the Dunning -Kruger effect .
 
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That's the thing about public transport, you have to share it with other members of the public, be they excitable kids or stuffy shirted businessmen.

As a father of a boisterous 3 year old and a 9 month old, I will always try my best to keep them entertained if we travel by train. That is the issue with kids most of the time; they get bored easily and it is unfair to expect a 3 year old to sit still and silent for a prolonged period of time. It is up to the parent to bring something to entertain, placate or distract the kid!

I find a combination of jigsaws, books and describing what my son can see out of the window works best; personally I don't take a tablet with films etc because I don't like my kids watching too much TV; I wouldn't let them watch Peppa Pig on loop in the house so why would I allow it on the train? I suppose I am lucky that the longest train journey we have been on as a family is Wolverhampton to Birmingham, Stafford or Shrewsbury or, on holiday, Scarborough to York; personally I wouldn't take them on a longer trip until they are older.

With regards to kids getting excited about seeing another train, that shouldn't be discouraged; who doesn't get excited at the sight of a class 92? :)
 
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NorthernSpirit

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If they've been brought up properly they should know not to take food from strangers anyway!

Not the four year old I saw once dip his hand into a randomers handbag and swiped the poor womans Toffee Crisp. The woman then proceeds to ask the mother of the said four year old where he got the chocolate bar from and the mother said from that bag there (refering to the womans bag). Funnily enough the woman got up and moved after the audacity of the four year old pickpocketing them.

The mother didn't bother explaining what the lad has done wrong, which is shocking.
 

bramling

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I think some forum members need to remind themselves that they are traveling on public transport and that its not their own private train.

This works both ways; whilst it's reasonable to expect to experience some disturbance from others, it is also reasonable to expect people to behave with a level of consideration for the public around them.

Most people are quite capable of both of the above, but as usual a minority of people go round creating problems due to their inability to see beyond me, me, me.

With trains having got noticeably busier in the last decade, unfortunately the chances of encountering such an individual or group are higher. Sadly I personally find this is one, if not the main, reason why I seem to find myself opting to travel by car more and more nowadays - and this is from someone who all other things being equal prefers rail travel. Weekend rail travel in particular has become a pain in the backside.

As an aside, I know a few drivers who won't tolerate a screaming kid (or other source of irritation) immediately behind their cab, and will quite happily ask such individuals or groups to pack it in or move elsewhere. I can remember one particular incident which started with a kid who kept kicking the cab door, the situation was dealt with by the driver (knowing the individual I don't doubt that it was dealt with anything other than professionally), but the situation ended up escalating with the parents taking exception to being pulled up, an argument ensued and an allegation was made such that it became necessary for the driver to be relieved from duty to sit a D&A test, with the service terminating short and the rest of the driver's duty being cancelled - thus inconveniencing a lot of people. As I said at the beginning, public transport works both ways - one has to expect to encounter others but equally people should behave with consideration for others.
 
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shredder1

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Instead of a quiet coach, trains should have a noisy coach - for families with young children, people with inadequate, I.e. Apple, headphones, and the sort of inadequate, arrogant businessman who wants the whole train to hear how important his mobile phone conversation is. The rest of us can enjoy the journey in the rest of the train.
I appreciate that this policy may not work in a 153
 

341o2

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I find as a dog owner that while kids are kids dog owners should know when someone doesn't like dogs and go somewhere else. I recently replied to one such person to request SWT to introduce dog free carriages
 

bramling

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I find as a dog owner that while kids are kids dog owners should know when someone doesn't like dogs and go somewhere else. I recently replied to one such person to request SWT to introduce dog free carriages

Agree on this, and it's not just on trains but everywhere. Some dog owners seem to feel it is their right to allow their dog to roam anywhere, including running up to and jumping up on other people and dogs. Needless to say if their dog approaches another dog and gets snapped at it somehow is the other dog's fault. Meanwhile, happened to read through the reviews section for several attractions in northern England, half the reviews were complaining that places weren't dog friendly. I say all this as owner of three dogs myself!
 

Josie

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not let them run riot/'create' while you chill out for xx minutes because you've had a hard day looking after them earlier/elsewhere.

Who said anything about running riot? I said finding ways for them to entertain themselves for a short time and not constantly and directly engaging with them personally. Other posts in a similar vein talked about children quietly reading or using a tablet.

Would you expect fellow travellers to change the brat's nappy should this become necessary because you've had a stessful day coping with the inevitable stresses of parenthood and need to relax a little during a train journey?

Yes of course. Go on, your turn first. /s :roll: What a ridiculous leap.
 

NSE

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It all comes down to the owners/parents. I hate dogs and all the wet dog smell etc, and not twenty minutes ago a chap joined me on the platform at St. Neots with four huskys (they may not be actually huskeys but you get the picture) all carabined to him at the waist with a full on harness job. First though was 'great' but then they sat down, drank from the puddles and didn't even flinch when the VTEC's went shooting through. They were well behaved and I'll hold my hands up and say my first impressions were wrong and I had no issue with them. And that's the crux of it. When children and pets are looked after properly then there's no trouble. It's just a small minority. The same with drinking on the train. I've had a cheeky cider to celebrate getting a job once, and that's a world of difference between that and having a drinking contest to see who's sick in first class the quickest. For the record I have no issue with children on trains, my only issue is when the children are ignored and allowed to run riot. But a crying baby that a parent is desperately trying to pacify? A fast train scaring them and causing them to cry, it happens.

I'd sooner see the abolishment of snooty types with no recollection of their own childhood noises. But each to their own
 

Darandio

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So, because you chose to have kids but then feel the need to switch off from the associated parenting duties whilst n a public place everyone there has to make allowances for your need to relax.

No, you're the parent(s). If your kids are acting up you need to do your best to pro-actively deal with it there are then - not let them run riot/'create' while you chill out for xx minutes because you've had a hard day looking after them earlier/elsewhere.

Would you expect fellow travellers to change the brat's nappy should this become necessary because you've had a stessful day coping with the inevitable stresses of parenthood and need to relax a little during a train journey?

I'm sorry, but No!

Well, this went up a notch. Absolutely clueless.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Well, two kids on the Highland Chieftain which has just left Haymarket, both screaming with hyperactivity, one at each end. Old couple near me wincing. Parents grinning like anything.. I've got headphones though! Phew.
 

NSE

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I like to bring my guitar amp and just pump out hardcore techno. Quiet coach? More like disco coach
 

Doctor Fegg

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Most parents I know exercise a lot of restraint over themselves and their children on public transport.

Would that some of the more excitable posters here would exercise the same restraint when considering what to post.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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Later in the journey they yelled rudely "I'm so bored! Play music Now!!" So the dad put the Nutcracker Suite music on TOP VOLUME. Everyone glared at him (except for me because that would be impolite).

Then a family with about a four year old girl came on shouting at the top of her lungs "I want wine! Give me wine!!!!"

They got off at about Perth.
 

Senex

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And that's the crux of it. When children and pets are looked after properly then there's no trouble. It's just a small minority.
When children and pets are looked after properly there is indeed no trouble, and indeed it's always good to see children being looked after properly by attentive parents. However, I don't think the badly-behaved and obstreperous brats are just a small minority any more. There are far too many parents on public transport who make not the slightest effort to keep their offspring quiet and occupied and seem to feel they are entirely free to inflcit their monstrosities on all and sundry.
 

Welshman

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They are just kids, a lot of whom get excited when they go on a train. Were you never excited to go on a train when you were younger? I think you're being a tad Victor Meldrewish yes.

I was very excited being taken on a train as a child.
The only difference was my parents told me in no uncertain terms to be quiet.
Different generations, I suppose.
 
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