Switzerland - Where to go if you're a rail enthusiast

[Taunton]

The transport museum also has a rail station called Verkehrshaus.

This station must be quite recent, it was not there in the early 1990s. The Gotthard line from Lucerne leaves the terminal station heading due south, then curves round to the right in a huge near-360-degree spiral, mostly in a single-track tunnel, emerging after about 2 miles at the lakeside just by the museum, now heading south-east, with the main station visible back along the lake, It is like a deluxe version of Ipswich to Derby Road. There was a passing loop at the museum, as well as a siding running across the main road used for the delivery of museum stock. That would be the easy bit of museum deliveries. The aircraft exhibits, including a substantial passenger jet, were flown into an air force base on the other side of the lake, and then barged across. Looking at pictures of the museum station now, it seems made of decidedly modern prefabricated parts.

Lucerne station had what looks like an architecturally-spectacular station frontage and building from the 1900 Beaux-Arts architectural period, which must have been the pride of the town, but was destroyed in a great fire in 1971. The replacement, while certainly functional, just lacks what would have been the character of the old building.

 

[duesselmartin]

Thankfully the old porticus still stands at Lucerne

 

[Gordon]

This station must be quite recent, it was not there in the early 1990s. .

Recent yes, but not very recent. Opened 10 years ago now in 2007.

 

[Groningen]

Lucerne/Luzern has both small and normal gauge.

 

[duesselmartin]

Yes, seeing the metre gauge Zentralbahn train pull in beside regular SBB is quiet a sight

 

[Taunton]

I haven't been to Luzern since the 1990s, when the narrow-gauge LSE to Engelberg, although owned by Zentralbahn, was still a seemingly separate organisation.

One of the extraordinary sights was that many LSE multiple units were augmented by one extra normal hauled carriage on the rear (green, where the emus were red). When they arrived they buffered up to another such carriage at the bufferstops to be on the rear for the return journey. Meanwhile the carriage on the back was drawn back by a shunter and then completely loose-shunted into the adjacent empty platform. A notable sight to see it rolling in, at quite some speed, with just a brakeman on the front who was going to stop it with the handbrake.

 

[Groningen]

Yes, seeing the metre gauge Zentralbahn train pull in beside regular SBB is quiet a sight

Also the line to Meiringen and reversed there to Interlaken Ost. Or is that the same line?

 

[30907]

Also the line to Meiringen and reversed there to Interlaken Ost. Or is that the same line?

One part of it. ZB also run the old (L)SE to Engelberg

 

[duesselmartin]

Interlaken Ost, another wonderful station, mainline SBB BLS trains, narrow gauge BOB and Zentralbahn trains.

 

[Gordon]

Also the line to Meiringen and reversed there to Interlaken Ost. Or is that the same line?

One part of it. ZB also run the old (L)SE to Engelberg

I haven't been to Luzern since the 1990s, when the narrow-gauge LSE to Engelberg, although owned by Zentralbahn, was still a seemingly separate organisation.

The Zentralbahn is the LSE.

Basically the arrangement of the Brünig changed in the early 2000s, to free the SBB from having bother with metre gauge.

After the LSE was created (by linking the previously unconnected Stansstad - Engelberg Bahn to the rest of the rail network) in the 1960s, LSE trains ran over SBB owned tracks between Hergiswil and Luzern. In 2005, the Brünig line was transferred to the LSE. In return the LSE issued shares to SBB, and as a result 2/3 of ZB shares are now owned by SBB.

The LSE was subsequently renamed the Zentralbahn.



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[DRSavenger008]

Whilst the thread might be a bit outdated, I hope my question is relevant to the topic. Planning a trip myself to Switzerland at some point this year (possibly October), is there many loco hauled trains (passenger or freight) that pass over the old Gotthard route? Particularly keen to visit Goschenen and Erstfeld. many thanks for your help.

 

[ac6000cw]

Whilst the thread might be a bit outdated, I hope my question is relevant to the topic. Planning a trip myself to Switzerland at some point this year (possibly October), is there many loco hauled trains (passenger or freight) that pass over the old Gotthard route? Particularly keen to visit Goschenen and Erstfeld. many thanks for your help.

See the posts by Gordon here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=145065

 

[DRSavenger008]

Thats great thanks.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Trouble with Switzerland - and Lucerne in particular - is the crippling cost of anything - as I found out last year - the land of the £30 pizza and the need to eat lunchtime in Migros (the Co-op) , sort of dilutes the wonderful scenery etc.....

 

[Gordon]

Trouble with Switzerland - and Lucerne in particular - is the crippling cost of anything , sort of dilutes the wonderful scenery etc.....

For me nothing will ever dilute the wonderful scenery etc, but:

I appreciate the cost of Switzerland has risen in real terms for UK people especially recently (I can remember when it was at least 4 SFR to 1 pound, and my mum can recall when it was 10 Swiss (let alone French...) Francs to the Pound.

However there are ways to mitigate the cost if you adopt a careful strategy (and it helps if you are used to paying large UK city (or onboard / station prices) as the differential is less marked.

For lunch I get rolls from a bakery and a tube of Paté (a traditional Swiss item rarely found in other countries) from Migros. Also look out for the cheaper cold meats in Migros which are good roll fillers.

In the evening, there are still bistro and cafe type places (especially away from tourist traps like Luzern) where you can get a filling plate (eg Rösti and sausage or pork schnitzel) for around £15.

Pork and chicken dishes are always cheaper, beef and lamb is very expensive (I always think this is amusingly odd given that you see more sheep and cows in Swiss fields than pigs.


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[ac6000cw]

For me nothing will ever dilute the wonderful scenery etc, but:

Agree completely with that (and to some degree the high cost of living in Switzerland helps pay for keeping it looking the way it is e.g. subsidising small mountain farmers etc.)

 

[DaiGog]

I think you just have to accept that if you want something nice to eat, you're going to get stung. As stated above, there are some decent options to be had away from the tourist traps.

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

However there are ways to mitigate the cost if you adopt a careful strategy

Our strategy this year is to stay just over the border (Weil-am-Rhein and Friedrichshafen) to enjoy slightly lower prices while still being within easy reach of Luzern, Zurich etc. We'll find out how well this works in August! Hoping for plenty of variety at the stations in Basel...

 

[eastwestdivide]

Our strategy this year is to stay just over the border (Weil-am-Rhein and Friedrichshafen) to enjoy slightly lower prices while still being within easy reach of Luzern, Zurich etc. We'll find out how well this works in August! Hoping for plenty of variety at the stations in Basel...

Good strategy - I've done the same with Domodossola and Tirano on the Italian side. Italian B&Bs can be quite good value, if quirky. I've used Il Riccio in Tirano and Ca' Barbieri in Domodossola in the last couple of years. Both fine.

 

[Gordon]

Good strategy - I've done the same with Domodossola and Tirano on the Italian side.

I've taken part in similar discussions on various forums.

Here's a basic list of the 'standard' just across the border larger settlements with choices of accommodation. Some are closer than others to the boundary of Swiss fares, so that's another practicality to be taken into account (there may be other smaller locations with the odd hotel, B&B or private room):

For Genève:
Ferney Voltaire (Ain, France, TPG (Genève Transport / Unireso) bus from Genève city or Genève Aeroport)
Annemasse (Haute Savoie, France, bus from Genève until CEVA opens)
St Julien en Genevois (Haute Savoie, France, TPG bus or Tram/bus from Genève city)
at a pinch: Bellegarde (Ain, France, CFF trains from Genève)

there are other small places where you can walk over the border from the terminus of a TPG bus route, but won't necessarily have accomodation


For Basel:
Mulhouse (France, TER Alsace train from Basel)
St Louis (France, bus or train)
Weil (Germany, tram from Basel)
Lörrach (Germany, tram/bus from Basel)

For Basel or Zürich, several places just across the river Rhein
Bad Säckingen
Rheinfelden Baden (Germany, virtual twin town to Rheinfelden CH, either side of river)
Waldshut (opposite Koblenz CH)

For eastern CH:
Konstanz (Germany, walking distance to CH tariff)
Singen (Germany, more distant from CH)
Bregenz (Austria)
Feldkirch (Austria)


For southern CH
Tirano (Italy, on RhB Bernina)
Como (Italy, short hop access to Chiasso, served by through Swiss trains)
Ponte Tresa Italy (short walk from Ponte Tresa Switzerland, terminus of FLP train from Lugano)
Luino
Domodossola

 

[Bletchleyite]

For Annemasse you can take the tram to the last stop then walk 10 mins or so across the border. It's a bit of a dive though.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Our strategy this year is to stay just over the border (Weil-am-Rhein and Friedrichshafen) to enjoy slightly lower prices while still being within easy reach of Luzern, Zurich etc. We'll find out how well this works in August! Hoping for plenty of variety at the stations in Basel...

In fairness , off season - mid Winter you can get some outstanding VFM for hotels in not ski areas - stayed in mid December in Chur and Lucerne , and the price differences from summer were astounding.

Tirano looks very promising. (only passed through - and bargain fares to Milan.

 

[Gordon]

For Annemasse you can take the tram to the last stop then walk 10 mins or so across the border. It's a bit of a dive though.

I think that's being a bit unfair on Annemasse. No worse than any other place. And this part of the discussion was about saving money over staying in Switzerland. If one wants to avoid a 'dive', one can always stay in Switzerland!

10 mins walk only gets you into the towns of Gaillard or Ambilly.
Annemasse centre (with some OK hotels) is 30 minutes walk, and Annemasse gare where there are other VFM hotels is over 30 mins.
How far it is from the Swiss tram terminus (Moillesulaz / frontier) depends on what hotel you book into. Google reckons the Ibis Annemasse which on the direct road from the Swiss tram is 18mins. Other VFM hotels a bit further on into Annemasse.

 

[cambsy]

I'm doing Vienna to Zurich by Rail Jet October 18th, leaving 05.22, arriving 13.20, as part of a 2 day London-Vienna return trip, what sort of scenery can I expect to see, what the best side of train to sit on etc?.

 

[Polarbear]

I'm doing Vienna to Zurich by Rail Jet October 18th, leaving 05.22, arriving 13.20, as part of a 2 day London-Vienna return trip, what sort of scenery can I expect to see, what the best side of train to sit on etc?.

The scenery gets better as you head further west, especially between Insbruck & Zurich over the Alberg pass. Most of the run is scenic in one form or another though. There are quite a few tunnels in places, some on the higher speed sections & several shorter ones on the Alberg pass section.

Not sure there's a "better" side to sit on - possibly the left side heading west, as you'll have great views over the Alberg.

As for the type of scenery, you'll start off with the normal sort of stuff (towns, pastures etc) and it gets progressively more mountainous as you head west. Even the last part of the trip into Zurich is great as you skirt Zurichsee.

Enjoy! ??????

 

[Groningen]

Strangely enough things have not gone faster. In a Thomas Cook timetable from 1995 Bregenz - Innsbruck is only 2 minutes than a train in 2017. Maybe more reliable concerning the snow.

 

[sarahj]

Strangely enough things have not gone faster. In a Thomas Cook timetable from 1995 Bregenz - Innsbruck is only 2 minutes than a train in 2017. Maybe more reliable concerning the snow.

It's a part single track mainline up a mountain pass and through a tunnel that needs banking locos. They add another taurus on at Innsbruck to the railjets. Difficult to speed things up.


Meanwhile: Agree with the food, sometimes eating out can be heartbreaking. Never eat Curry, it's like something that comes out of a tin. But cheap eats can be had, the supermarkets (co-op/migros) or even a kebab store. (don't think uk version serving those with 10 pints).. But sometimes it can be worth it. Every time I'm in Interlarken I have to eat here: http://desalpes-interlaken.ch/de/des-alpes/
Back in the 90's I did a 10 days trip, based at Luzern and holding a 1st class Swiss Pass. The hotel was half board, which saved money. Tho' they did notice I kept missing Dinner, so they used to make me a packed lunch instead. Great times, if I was bored on an evening, I used to pop to Basle and back, and did Geneve to Basle just because the train had a Mcdonalds coach.

 

[30907]

I'm doing Vienna to Zurich by Rail Jet October 18th, leaving 05.22, arriving 13.20, as part of a 2 day London-Vienna return trip, what sort of scenery can I expect to see, what the best side of train to sit on etc?.

I would go for the left side.
The first bit is largely new-build, but in the dark you won't worry about the tunnels and noise barriers. Generally, the Alps are to the south, but both sides ae good up the Inn valley to the Arlberg tunnel (right to spot trains on the Seefeld line that climbs the valley wall).
The train reverses at Buchs which is convenient as the best scenery towards Zurich is on the right along the Walensee and Zurichsee.
Look out at Jenbach for the n/g Zillertalbahn (left) and Aachenseebahn (right).
Biggest viaduct is the Trisanna bridge going up to the tunnel.

 

[Techniquest]

I've only read pages 1 and 6 of this thread so far, but an interesting read as I already know I'm going to want to go back to Switzerland after my trip in October.

I apologise if it's been mentioned already, but what sort of train can I expect between Basel (I'm flying to Basel then a bus into town) and Zurich? I'm currently looking for my best value option and that is almost guaranteed to be by coach at the moment. However if it's something well worth trying out by rail I'll be happier at paying €30 for a single.

I've got my ticket for the Bernina Express already booked, thanks to the advice on Seat61.com for the ride to Tirano. I've not decided yet whether to pay the supplement for the tourist coaches or not, a decision that can be made on the day I'm sure.

 

[class387]

I've only read pages 1 and 6 of this thread so far, but an interesting read as I already know I'm going to want to go back to Switzerland after my trip in October.

I apologise if it's been mentioned already, but what sort of train can I expect between Basel (I'm flying to Basel then a bus into town) and Zurich? I'm currently looking for my best value option and that is almost guaranteed to be by coach at the moment. However if it's something well worth trying out by rail I'll be happier at paying €30 for a single.

I've got my ticket for the Bernina Express already booked, thanks to the advice on Seat61.com for the ride to Tirano. I've not decided yet whether to pay the supplement for the tourist coaches or not, a decision that can be made on the day I'm sure.

Basel to Zurich is usually loco-hauled with a Re460, but some Re420s especially on slower trains can be found. There are also German ICEs and maybe ICNs.

You can check individual train compositions on the Reisezuege website.

Bernina Express is not worth it in my opinion. The standard trains with fully opening windows are much better. I don't know if they are still hauled though.