Class 345 progress

[JonathanH]

Very excited to see that the 0849 from Gidea Park is a 345 today (345008) - is this the first they’ve started replacing 315s on timetabled services?

Much less of a crush than normal - I think there will be a lot of happy commuters.

Thursday last week appears to have been the first day. The working is out and back from Ilford:

3C19 07+00 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Gidea Park Middle Siding 07+15
5C19 07+26 Gidea Park Middle Siding to Gidea Park 07+28
2C19 0729 Gidea Park to London Liverpool Street 0800
2C14 0807 London Liverpool Street to Gidea Park 0835
5C14 08+37 Gidea Park to Gidea Park Middle Siding 08+39
5C37 08+46 Gidea Park Middle Siding to Gidea Park 08+47
2C37 0849 Gidea Park to London Liverpool Street 0921
2W46 0930 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1013
2W63 1024 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1107
2W68 1120 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1203
2W85 1214 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1257
2W90 1310 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1353
2W07 1404 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1447
2W12 1500 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1543
2W29 1554 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1637
2C56 1650 London Liverpool Street to Gidea Park 1720
5C56 17+20 Gidea Park to Gidea Park Middle Siding 17+22
5C57 17+29 Gidea Park Middle Siding to Gidea Park 17+31
2C57 1732 Gidea Park to London Liverpool Street 1800
2W52 1807 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 1847
2W65 1854 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 1937
2W78 1952 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 2035
2W87 2044 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street 2127
2W00 2140 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield 2223
5V81 22+34 Shenfield to Ilford E.M.U.D. 23+04

 

[Wivenswold]

Any news on Class 315 withdrawals? Space must be running out at Ilford and Gidea Park.

 

[samuelmorris]

and so it begins - first peak time journey home on a 345, 008 specifically. It being a hot day and me picking up a pretty nasty cold over the weekend, travelling on air-conditioned stock was a godsend. The ability to stand in the aisles is a marked improvement over the 315s as well. As much as I was expecting seating to be a problem, I was still able to get a seat as of Ilford, which is certainly nil worse than the 315s.

I'm a bit disappointed that they haven't fixed any of the issues with the PIS yet, or with the door behaviour - the audio still stutters, the 'next station' text is still missing from the displays, the unnecessary 'via Stratford' announcement still plays and the doors still occasionally detect obstructions as though nothing is there. While I'm sure this isn't actually the case, as far as I can tell the units are unchanged since their first public outing in June. They've had plenty of time to put those minor issues right.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It hasnt sat down though and I guess thats a godsend?

 

[samuelmorris]

Indeed, it could be a lot worse. All the stuff that matters works (excluding the TfL status page which isn't programmed in yet) and unlike with the 700s there is very little that has been downgraded from the units they are superceding, other than the transverse seating. It was a really quite pleasant journey home despite peak time crowds, and that's even when disregarding the 'new train' experience. Quite gratifying, knowing this is the future of my commute and it's really a very nice product.

 

[AlexNL]

While I'm sure this isn't actually the case, as far as I can tell the units are unchanged since their first public outing in June. They've had plenty of time to put those minor issues right.

Maybe they're saving up the updates and will push out one larger update later in the year. It wouldn't surprise me if this is due to TfL/Bombardier/RSSB paperwork... change control processes, change advisory boards, et cetera.

It's often easier to go through the whole process just once, instead of ten times.

 

[samuelmorris]

Withdrawn from service due to a train fault. Make of that what you will :P

 

[essex_commuter]

Apparently it was a door fault tonight? I just happened to arrive in time to catch it on the 18:07 so typically it failed!

 

[simple simon]

Withdrawn from service due to a train fault. Make of that what you will :P

I saw 345 010 in service at Stratford platform 5 today. The time was approximately 17:50.



Simon

 

[samuelmorris]

010 must be the errant unit then presumably - it was only advertised as cancelled by the time I reached Liverpool Street I think, replaced with an ECS working due to a door fault. Another time then, maybe

The door programming definitely isn't right. Some doors randomly have the red 'doors closing' indicator permanently lit (i.e. not flashing as it would be under normal operation) for a while in between stations, the aforementioned issue with them detecting obstructions when closing when they're not there and, although this was never really fixed on the S-stock, the arbitrary time it takes for different sets of doors to release on the same train. You can tell the doors receive the signal at the same time as the red indicator comes on, but sometimes it turns green and releases almost immediately, other times a good few seconds will pass. Nothing that will harm timetable performance noticeably, but it suggests that the firmware for the door operation really isn't fully developed yet, so seeing that as the reason for tonight's cancellation comes as no surprise.

 

[hwl]

Maybe they're saving up the updates and will push out one larger update later in the year. It wouldn't surprise me if this is due to TfL/Bombardier/RSSB paperwork... change control processes, change advisory boards, et cetera.

It's often easier to go through the whole process just once, instead of ten times.

Group issues so they are addressed in a single software build to reduce testing workload...
The question is then how many per group and how you order and prioritise groupings.

 

[samuelmorris]

Today's working appears to have sat down between Ilford and Seven Kings. Nothing in front of it. As I was late leaving tonight I'm not aboard it, perhaps just as well...

Edit: never mind, seems it's the set of points in front of the train that failed, not the unit itself.

 

[samuelmorris]

345008 spotted on the off-peak test diagram this morning. Kind of surprised that units that have already successfully operated peak runs are still working this service?

 

[Devonman2014]

345010 and 008 are both in passenger service today with 345007 on test and 345006 plus another (anyone got an ID) on ilford carriage sidings.

345010 is on the diagram above (11:20 off Liverpool st) and 345008 left seven kings on a service to Liverpool st at 12:01

 

[Goldfish62]

I tuned up on spec at Liverpool St yesterday and managed to step straight on to one unit, then had the other one back straight back from Stratford!

I had expected to be impressed by the these trains. Sadly I wasn't.They look impressive from the outside and will undoubtedly do the job. But oh dear, what a drab, gloomy interior! I really don't like all that grey and the dim yellow lighting. Going through the tunnel at Liverpool Street showed just how dull it is.

The seat moquette is nice, but the seats were as concrete, if not more so, as I was expecting.

I was very disappointed with the ride quality. Fine on plain track, but really harsh over pointwork - a bit like the 458s in the early days before the suspension was tweaked.

So not my cup of tea at all - very disappointed. Personally, I much prefer the Class 707, having already travelled on one in service. I honestly didn't expect to say that.

 

[samuelmorris]

In the age of clinical white interiors I actually think the 345 interior is quite smart, I'm really rather surprised it's as dark as it is, it seems less suited to the metro-style operation these units will be used on, but for the 35-40 minute trips home from London I'll use them for it's actually rather cosy, I like it. I didn't notice any issues with ride quality - have you been over the same points on 315s and 321s?

 

[matthewmacleod]

Yeah, I’ll definitel have to disagree with that too. They’re some of the smartest-looking interiors I’ve seen in the UK. But it does go to show there there are a variety of views there, and I’m sure we can agree that so long as they perform well everyone will be happy

 

[Goldfish62]

In the age of clinical white interiors I actually think the 345 interior is quite smart, I'm really rather surprised it's as dark as it is, it seems less suited to the metro-style operation these units will be used on, but for the 35-40 minute trips home from London I'll use them for it's actually rather cosy, I like it. I didn't notice any issues with ride quality - have you been over the same points on 315s and 321s?

Yes, many times.

The interior scheme is of course subjective.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yeah, I’ll definitel have to disagree with that too. They’re some of the smartest-looking interiors I’ve seen in the UK. But it does go to show there there are a variety of views there, and I’m sure we can agree that so long as they perform well everyone will be happy

Agreed!

 

[physics34]

In the age of clinical white interiors I actually think the 345 interior is quite smart, I'm really rather surprised it's as dark as it is, it seems less suited to the metro-style operation these units will be used on, but for the 35-40 minute trips home from London I'll use them for it's actually rather cosy, I like it. I didn't notice any issues with ride quality - have you been over the same points on 315s and 321s?

also agree.

 

[47802]

Of course Tfl have their own quirky style, and I expect non Tfl Aventra builds will be more like the 700/707's

 

[samuelmorris]

Yes, many times.

The interior scheme is of course subjective.

I'll have to pay closer attention to this next time then - is there anywhere you thought particularly bad? I'd assume eastbound through Gidea Park sidings would be the worst.

 

[JW16]

I noticed on 345008 the other day that some of the announcements have been tidied up.

For example, the pointless "exit here for Spitalfields Market and trains to Southend and Stansted Airports" as well as the "change for Northern line" have been removed from the "next station Liverpool Street" announcement.

One niggle was that upon departure from Liverpool Street we are told "next station Stratford, change for Central, Jubilee, Overground, DLR and National Rail". We are told about these changes a full 7-9 minutes before we actually get to Stratford and are not told of them again. It'd make more sense to tell us about the interchanges as the train actually approaches the next station.

I also find the seats much less comfortable to sit on than those on the 315s, but I guess there will be some, just a few(!), lucky passengers who nab a seat with the high back.

Oh, and the beeping sound as the doors open is WAY too loud.

 

[samuelmorris]

Agreed re: the interchanges at Stratford, with the stations a good 6-7 minutes apart I don't actually object to them keeping the one on departure from Liverpool Street, but having that and not play it upon approach to Stratford makes no sense.
The 'exit here for Spitalfields Market' is hopefully part of the 'off-peak programming' that several tube lines already use. I would not expect it to play during peak hours.

As a Brentwood passenger I have got to use the high-back seats on the westbound journey I made in June, they're alright but the firm seat base will still give people something to complain about. For me they're no worse, however, as the low back to the 315 seats can sometimes give me backache due to having no support at the top.

Agreed on the door opening chime, it's much louder than the one for the doors closing, which is the opposite of what it should be. It also inherits the Bombardier trait of going on too long - if it takes a passenger 3-4 seconds to press the button after the doors are released you hear the full thing twice. That is common, of course, as regularly people press the button when it lights up (red) without realising it will only do anything once the door controller has finished activating and it's turned green. The fact that there is no tactile feedback on the door buttons also confused people, myself included the first time. It's a bit like pressing one of those pressure-sensitive pads. There is no physical movement but you do have to press firmly to elicit a response. I wonder what was wrong with having a physical button like all other rolling stock... The green/red surround on the button is actually quite a nice touch, but in general, everything about the door open/close process is sub-optimal. Thankfully, one of the most important things to get right, the door sealing, is excellent. GA fast services passing by at full speed hardly make a sound, this is a vast improvement.

 

[southern442]

I was on a 345 the other day. I rather like the interior colour scheme, I like the purple shades. Announcements were a bit annoying.

I couldn't find a single bin on the train. It's a little thing that we all take for granted, but it is exceedingly irritating when you have a little bit of litter in your pocket. I'm ashamed to admit the lack of bins made me tempted to just throw it on the floor. TfL are going to find their new trains becoming very dirty very quickly without any bins.

As I said before, overall interior atmosphere was something I liked. However the longitudinal seating was really uncomfortable. I didn't get to try the transverse seats, but they looked much better.

Overall, not something I didn't like, but I wasn't all that impressed. However my opinion on the class 700s changed a lot since first introduction, so I see no reason why these trains couldn't win me over in time.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The transverse seats are rather good. I like the announcements and other than the bins issue I love these trains after only 1 trip on them. They show up the 700s for the rubbish they really are.

 

[TEW]

Lack of bins is very much a TfL thing. You don't get any on LU stock and the 378s don't have them either.

 

[JW16]

The more I travel on these trains, the more I realise how uncomfortable the seats are and how there is such a severe lack of seating. In the peak I can't imagine there will be a single free seat by the time a Shenfield-Liverpool St train reaches Harold Wood.

 

[samuelmorris]

Indeed, you're currently looking at 350 seats versus 636, though I think that would probably get you to Gidea Park. However, I personally find, as long as there's sufficient space, standing more comfortable than being the middle seat in a 2+3. Standing, which is what a large proportion of TfL Rail passengers currently do, is a lot more tolerable on a 345 than 315 and fundamentally, the extra capacity, even in 7-car guise, allows people to board that otherwise couldn't beforehand. A comfortable seat is definitely not the main objective here.

 

[gazthomas]

In the age of clinical white interiors I actually think the 345 interior is quite smart, I'm really rather surprised it's as dark as it is, it seems less suited to the metro-style operation these units will be used on, but for the 35-40 minute trips home from London I'll use them for it's actually rather cosy, I like it. I didn't notice any issues with ride quality - have you been over the same points on 315s and 321s?

I found the 345 choppy when I did a trip on one from Ilford to Liverpool Street a few weeks back