Caledonian Sleeper Family Ticket

[JohnR]

Can anyone explain to me why the new Family Ticket offered by the Caledonain Sleeper is worth paying extra compared to the regulsr tickets dicounted using a F&F railcard?

 

[JB1601]

It's a good question. One advantage seems to be that if there is an odd number of passengers, you get the extra bunk for free. So if you are a couple with one child, you can get two compartments with the middle door open without having to buy four tickets.

 

[JohnR]

Agreed - but if you buy 2 adults + 2 children, it will still work out cheaper, and of course you can book two compartments next to each other anyway....

 

[alistairlees]

Can anyone explain to me why the new Family Ticket offered by the Caledonian Sleeper is worth paying extra compared to the regular tickets discounted using a F&F railcard?

I think it's aimed at family groups that don't have a FAM railcard. For whom it represents very good value.

 

[JohnR]

Yes, but if you have 2 adults and 2 children, its still cheaper with the F&F railcard.

 

[Altnabreac]

Now it becomes clear. Once the new trains are introduced next year they will no longer be accepting Family and Friends railcard.

Huge fares increase for families. Family ticket doesn't really come close to making a difference.

No discount at all for children under the new fares scheme.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now it becomes clear. Once the new trains are introduced next year they will no longer be accepting Family and Friends railcard.

Huge fares increase for families. Family ticket doesn't really come close to making a difference.

No discount at all for children under the new fares scheme.

Are they coming out of the RSP entirely, then?

 

[Altnabreac]

Are they coming out of the RSP entirely, then?

Presumably they will have to accept Interavailable discounted tickets with a berth supplement but they will no longer offer F&F discount (or a child discount) on Sleeper Fares.

 

[Merseysider]

Are they allowed to pick and choose like that?

 

[Hadders]

Brace yourselves for huge increases in fares when the new stock arrives.

I wonder if they will scrap Railcard discounts on berth supplements?
Could they scrap Railcard discounts on Advance fares? I suspect they'll try

They will have to accept Railcard discounted Any Permitted tickets on the seats but I suspect berth supporters laments will become so expensive the only way to travel will be using an Advance (which will still be far more expensive than they are today)

 

[AY1975]

Are they coming out of the RSP entirely, then?

What is the RSP? Rail Settlement Plan, I presume. Are all TOCs, including Caledonian Sleeper, obliged to abide by the terms of the RSP (including accepting all national railcards)?

 

[Leisurefirst]

What is the RSP? Rail Settlement Plan, I presume. Are all TOCs, including Caledonian Sleeper, obliged to abide by the terms of the RSP (including accepting all national railcards)?

...and the Two Together railcard leaflets published in May and still valid until tomorrow still say "1/3 off Caledonian Sleeper services when boarding before 04:30".

Terms and Conditions no. 12 in the back says "The right is reserved to revise these Conditions. The Train Companies will endeavour to give three months' notice of any changes before they are due to come into effect.

I looked into making a berth booking for next year. No discount as we now know. Settled for seats in the end with the discount hoping they will be a much better experience than the present one. Hilariously of course, as it's the "transitional period" they can't guarantee the new trains. Yet can guarantee not to give the discount mentioned in the leaflet I just completed to buy the railcard and which they have not given any notice still of stopping.

...and the cheapest advance seats seem to have gone up too since I booked...

I'll be interested to see the new leaflet if anyone can post details...

 

[Leisurefirst]

...and the cheapest advance seats seem to have gone up too since I booked...

Not just for the dates I booked but all dates

 

[bigfoote]

I would say all will become clearer at midnight on the 2nd September, when the current T&Cs for the Two Together expire and are replaced.

From https://www.sleeper.scot/tickets-timetables/railcards

Railcard Discounts
There are many National Railcards which you may qualify for and they represent an excellent way to save a third or more off your Caledonian Sleeper rail travel. For a one off yearly fee, or in some cases a discounted fee for a longer period, you could start to save money with just one purchase. Below is a list of Railcards and how you may qualify. For full terms and conditions please visit Railcard.co.uk where you can also purchase most Railcards. The below is a brief summary of how to qualify for a railcard and the discounts which can apply:

16 -25 Railcard - If you are aged between 16 and 25 years of age,or are a mature student in full-time education you are eligible for a 16-25 railcard. With up to 33% discount these are a great way to save money.
Senior Railcard - If you are over 60 you can save 1/3 off rail fares. Buying a three year Senior Railcard represents a further saving.
HM Forces Railcard - You're eligible if you're a member of the Regular Forces, Volunteer Reserves or a spouse/civil partner of a member to save up to 1/3 off
Family & Friends Railcard - A great way for families to save money. As long as one of the two named adults is in possession of the Railcard, up to four adults and four children can travel on one railcard. A child is classed as aged 5 – 15. You can save 1/3 off Adult fares and 60% off child fares.
Disabled Adult and Child Railcards - For eligibility please visit Railcard.co.uk and click the appropriate link. Holders of a Disabled Railcard can save 1/3 off most rail travel. In addition, if you travel with an adult, they also benefit from the discount where applicable.
Two Together - Get a Two Together Railcard for you and the person you travel with most, and you'll both enjoy 1/3 of rail fares when you get away together.
You can use up to 3 railcards in one transaction but remember to make sure you are covered by the right railcard!

My bold.

Also note, no date attached to the text on that page, take that as you will.

 

[Leisurefirst]

I would say all will become clearer at midnight on the 2nd September, when the current T&Cs for the Two Together expire and are replaced.


My bold.

Also note, no date attached to the text on that page, take that as you will.

Ah yes, I forgot that CS still trumpet all the benefits of railcard on their website despite not going to give them out anymore unless you're in the cheap seats.

 

[Sleepy]

No reason to offer railcard discounts on their Advance berth Inc. tickets if they think they can fill the train anyway - Cornish Sleeper has never offered any railcard discount to its Advance Sleeper ticket range to my knowledge .......

 

[47271]

There's been discussion of future CS pricing on and off in the main Caledonian Sleeper thread.

Suffice to say they'd better have some smart ideas to fill that train between November and March otherwise it risks becoming an immediate political embarrassment. First in the queue to complain to the Scottish Government will be regular business travellers should they find themselves priced off.

 

[Sprinter153]

I contacted Serco for clarification on Railcard and Staff Travel discounts. The restriction is on F&F Railcard only, it seems, though the Staff Travel options are still up in the air:

Thank you for your email.

This is correct we are no longer accepting Friends and Family Railcards, as we have the Family tickets available and we have included discounts in to the fares for all sharing accommodation, we will still be accepting single railcards like the 16-25, Disabled Railcard, Senior Railcard.

I am unsure of the rail staff discount or options for travel as this is still being decided by our Managers this will be sent out in the usual channels when this information available.

I would like to direct you to our dedicated new trains website newtrains.sleeper.scot which has lots of great information regarding our new trains and we will be publishing our updates regarding the new trains over the next few months.



Kind Regards
Guest Ambassador

 

[FQ]

The sleeper is already too expensive for many people so doing this will price many people off it (particularly families during the summer months who will probably choose to travel up on a day train as they can use their railcard).

When do they stop accepting railcard discounted tickets?

 

[Merseysider]

The sleeper is already too expensive for many people so doing this will price many people off it (particularly families during the summer months who will probably choose to travel up on a day train as they can use their railcard).

When do they stop accepting railcard discounted tickets?

Quite. I wouldn't be surprised if budget-conscious families fly instead, as Ryanair, Easyjet etc are only a fraction of the cost.

 

[Hadders]

I contacted Serco for clarification on Railcard and Staff Travel discounts. The restriction is on F&F Railcard only, it seems, though the Staff Travel options are still up in the air:

This is typical of the useless Serco. Since they took over the franchise they've given us:

- Appalling reliability
- Huge increase in berth supplement fees (no doubt with more to come)
- Refusal to accept ALRs on their last day of validity
- Refusal to accept the Routeing Guide Local Scottish Easements
- Severe difficulties in booking seat reservations if travelling with a 'walk up' ticket between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh
- Imminent refusal to accept F&F Railcard

 

[Merseysider]

- Severe difficulties in booking seat reservations if travelling with a 'walk up' ticket between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh

Can vouch for this; their website was selling Seated Advance fares for a Dalmuir - Crewe journey in December, but neither their website nor telesales could issue me a free seat reservation as "National Rail reservations only open three months ahead" :roll:

 

[Hadders]

Can vouch for this; their website was selling Seated Advance fares for a Dalmuir - Crewe journey in December, but neither their website nor telesales could issue me a free seat reservation as "National Rail reservations only open three months ahead" :roll:

My issue is that I wanted to travel from Mallaig to Glasgow using the seated portion of the sleeper. It's 'Reservations Compulsory' on the sleeper but it's impossible to get one. Thankfully a very helpful clerk at a VTEC station managed to find a workaround but this shouldn't be necessary.

I contacted Caledonian Sleeper about it and got a nonsense reply back, denying it is a problem. They are now ignoring any emails I send to them...

My concern is they will try and prevent the sleeper being used as a 'day train' between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh citing low usage. This would be inacceptable unless a later Scotrail service is provided.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They could really do with having a TSO added to the order (possibly TPE style) which could be added/removed with the Fort Bill lounge and seated sleeper coach. That would solve the problem, it could be listed in the system as a totally separate service at the same times.

 

[Starmill]

My issue is that I wanted to travel from Mallaig to Glasgow using the seated portion of the sleeper. It's 'Reservations Compulsory' on the sleeper but it's impossible to get one. Thankfully a very helpful clerk at a VTEC station managed to find a workaround but this shouldn't be necessary.

I contacted Caledonian Sleeper about it and got a nonsense reply back, denying it is a problem. They are now ignoring any emails I send to them...

My concern is they will try and prevent the sleeper being used as a 'day train' between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh citing low usage. This would be inacceptable unless a later Scotrail service is provided.

When I've tried this, the CS website permits you to book a seat if there is a 'Fixed Seat Advance' ticket available (routed Cal Sleeper Seat) and not if you select the Anytime Day Single [SDS]. However, despite saying in the facilities of the train that reservations are mandatory, it says you do not need a reservation to travel.

 

[Starmill]

For your amusement, it also informs us that a Glasgow Cen/Qst to Fort William SDS is not valid via Southsea Hoverport!

 

[47271]

It's a shame that they seem to be bogging up on their pricing and ticketing, now that they've got over the initial stock maintenance trauma, they are running the trains and hospitality far more diligently than First ever did. I strongly disagree that their reliability right now is worse than that of any other TOC, or the sleeper under Scotrail.

Of course they may be kidding themselves that they're providing a luxury product first and foremost, when in fact their job is to accept a heavy public subsidy to run overnight train services six days a week, 52 weeks a year, between London and five destinations in Scotland.

If they are deliberately deterring lower value (as they perceive it) passengers then this news hasn't made it into the mainstream, I suspect because the change in approach has led to a lot of unconnected small disappointments rather than a joined up row - other than on a forum like this obviously.

But regular business users are a very different matter, CS need to brace themselves for a very joined up political assault if they think that businesses are going to cough up luxury prices. They need to brace themselves for very empty trains in the winter too.

 

[Clip]

Quite. I wouldn't be surprised if budget-conscious families fly instead, as Ryanair, Easyjet etc are only a fraction of the cost.

But then you have to add in the cost of getting to/from the airport at both ends and you are making a large assumption that their final destination would be a city with an airport

 

[Hadders]

When I've tried this, the CS website permits you to book a seat if there is a 'Fixed Seat Advance' ticket available (routed Cal Sleeper Seat) and not if you select the Anytime Day Single [SDS]. However, despite saying in the facilities of the train that reservations are mandatory, it says you do not need a reservation to travel.

That works to Fort William but not to Mallaig.

Mallaig is significant as there is a ferry connection from Skye meaning it's possible to leave Armadale at c.1715 and get to Glasgow/Edinburgh the same day by connecting into the seated portion of the sleeper. This would work for journeys to London, I've not tried but I bet that Cs don't offer a through Advance fare.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

When I've tried this, the CS website permits you to book a seat if there is a 'Fixed Seat Advance' ticket available (routed Cal Sleeper Seat) and not if you select the Anytime Day Single [SDS]. However, despite saying in the facilities of the train that reservations are mandatory, it says you do not need a reservation to travel.

The wording reads to me like it is the train that is reservable, but not a specific seat within it. A bit like a "specific connecting train" booking on an advance where the connecting TOC doesn't do seat reservations but you can reserve to travel on a specific train.