Monarch Cease Trading

[telstarbox]

Who is most likely to take over their routes?

 

[robertclark125]

The recent debacle at Ryanair, and this, got me thinking. If someone had booked on a Ryanair flight that's been cancelled, and Ryanair had moved that passenger to a Monarch flight, which is now never going to fly, what happens next, regards that passenger? Does Ryanair have to find yet another carrier, or can they say "we moved you, so if the flight isn't going, sorry, but tough."

 

[pemma]

The recent debacle at Ryanair, and this, got me thinking. If someone had booked on a Ryanair flight that's been cancelled, and Ryanair had moved that passenger to a Monarch flight, which is now never going to fly, what happens next, regards that passenger? Does Ryanair have to find yet another carrier, or can they say "we moved you, so if the flight isn't going, sorry, but tough."

It should be the case if Ryanair moved the passenger who booked with them, then they should have to move them again. If Ryanair refunded a passenger and then the passenger booked with Monarch then they will have to try and get a refund from their card provider/insurer etc.

 

[theageofthetra]

You'll be able to make a section 75 claim to your card provider, unless the administrators refund you (unlikely) or someone else buys the business and it starts trading again (again unlikely as trading has ceased.)

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...consumer-credit-act#making-a-section-75-claim

Absolutely correct. I did this years ago when Zoom went bust and had the money refunded before I even had to pay the bill. Its why I pay for all holiday bookings with my credit not debit card.

There is a sort of protection scheme with debit cards but its not as straightforward and has limitations.

Basically with a credit card the contract of purchase is between the card issuer and supplier- its not your problem if the supplier goes bust.

 

[daikilo]

The recent debacle at Ryanair, and this, got me thinking. If someone had booked on a Ryanair flight that's been cancelled, and Ryanair had moved that passenger to a Monarch flight, which is now never going to fly, what happens next, regards that passenger? Does Ryanair have to find yet another carrier, or can they say "we moved you, so if the flight isn't going, sorry, but tough."

Probably hypothetical, but if the booking was formally moved to a Monarch flight (only) then likley Ryanair remain liable for non-completion.

 

[pemma]

Who is most likely to take over their routes?

No straight forward answer.

Manchester to Dubrovnik is also operated by Jet2 and EasyJet. I imagine if the Monarch slots are taken up by another airline it'll be one of those two who get them. I doubt the likes of Ryanair or Norwegian will see Monarch going bust as a chance to start running Manchester to Dubrovnik, when there's two other low cost operators already operating the same route.

For Birmingham to Gibraltar there's no alternative. That could mean an end to direct flights, it could mean another operator takes on the route or it could be another operator starts a Gibraltar route from a different airport e.g. East Midlands.

Bigger question is where are those brand new Boeing planes which Monarch have ordered going to go?

 

[Robertj21a]

Who is most likely to take over their routes?

If a lack of sufficient profitability was partly instrumental in Monarch's collapse then it's quite likely that a number of routes won't survive at all.

 

[telstarbox]

Not necessarily if those routes can be run with lower fares than Monarch were charging and/or interworked with a carriers existing routes.

 

[atillathehunn]

If a lack of sufficient profitability was partly instrumental in Monarch's collapse then it's quite likely that a number of routes won't survive at all.

If you read the pretty basic analysis sloshing round in the immediate collapse you'll see this isn't true.

Monarch used to have a niche on Egypt, Tunisia, Libya routes, not as mass tourism-y as some routes, but high yielding especially in the winter.

When these destinations collapsed they were forced into the typical Euro routes - Spain and associated islands. Competition is already fierce on these UK-Spain routes, and Ryanair fought back hard. Monarch didn't really know what it was as an airline and so couldn't really compete.

Another airline taking the slots and crew and planes means they are just adding capacity onto a route with sunk marketing costs etc. The profit model will be different I would imagine.

 

[Robertj21a]

If you read the pretty basic analysis sloshing round in the immediate collapse you'll see this isn't true.

Monarch used to have a niche on Egypt, Tunisia, Libya routes, not as mass tourism-y as some routes, but high yielding especially in the winter.

When these destinations collapsed they were forced into the typical Euro routes - Spain and associated islands. Competition is already fierce on these UK-Spain routes, and Ryanair fought back hard. Monarch didn't really know what it was as an airline and so couldn't really compete.

Another airline taking the slots and crew and planes means they are just adding capacity onto a route with sunk marketing costs etc. The profit model will be different I would imagine.

Quite agree, but some of that is the historic situation, and doesn't change anything I wrote. As you say, they were pushed off those lucrative routes and forced to go where fierce competition exists - hence my comments.

 

[Busaholic]

The recent debacle at Ryanair, and this, got me thinking. If someone had booked on a Ryanair flight that's been cancelled, and Ryanair had moved that passenger to a Monarch flight, which is now never going to fly, what happens next, regards that passenger? Does Ryanair have to find yet another carrier, or can they say "we moved you, so if the flight isn't going, sorry, but tough."

I don't recollect Monarch's name being on the list of airlines that Ryanair belatedly supplied to which passengers were being re-directed, but then Monarch was living almost from day to day over the last couple of weeks, which everyone in the industry would have known about.

 

[atillathehunn]

Quite agree, but some of that is the historic situation, and doesn't change anything I wrote. As you say, they were pushed off those lucrative routes and forced to go where fierce competition exists - hence my comments.

I don't really understand your point. You're saying Monach is an airline, Monarch didn't make a profit going to Spain therefore no airline can make a profit going to Spain. Doesn't really hold water. And I said other airlines with sunk costs on the routes will be able to use the routes profitably.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Who is most likely to take over their routes?

Would imagine the likes of Easyjet, British Airways, and Norwegian will all be going after the slots that are now available at Gatwick? As for the other airport's (UK) that Monarch has served, I have no idea who will go after what etc.

Cheers

Ben

 

[mlambeuk]

Who is most likely to take over their routes?

Looks like Jet2 have taken some of the Leeds, Manchester and Birmingham slots vacated by Monarch.
http://www.jet2.com/extra-seats/

 

[theageofthetra]

As the administrators have ended operations immediately it sounds like they plan to close down the business and put the assets up for sale, rather than try to restructure the business to create a profitable business.

Its a UK only rule that an airline cannot trade if in administration. It hasn't for example stopped other failed European airlines like Air Berlin who continue to operate with tax payer bailouts.

 

[gavin]

Virgin Trains EC are advertsing jobs for ex Monarch staff

Virgin_TrainsEC .@Monarch staff, we've got a #RedHot team waiting for you to join us. Head to our recruitment page for the latest: https://recruitment.virgintrainseastcoast.com/pb3/corporate/VirginTEC/page.php?p_page=home

 

[Joe Paxton]

Its a UK only rule that an airline cannot trade if in administration. It hasn't for example stopped other failed European airlines like Air Berlin who continue to operate with tax payer bailouts.

Theoretically the money is a loan from the German government. Whether they will get it back or indeed even expect to get it back is another question (though I have read suggestions that the government would be quite high up on any list of creditors).

 

[baz962]

Just seen an advert posted on indeed 2 hour's ago for a mechanic for monarch bit odd!

 

[Tim R-T-C]

So I've applied for S75 for my flight booking in November with Monarch, have to see what happens. Technically it is two £65 flights, but the single payment was over £100, so not sure if it will be covered or not.

 

[roversfan2001]

So I've applied for S75 for my flight booking in November with Monarch, have to see what happens. Technically it is two £65 flights, but the single payment was over £100, so not sure if it will be covered or not.

I think S75 only covers you if the cost of each individual item is £100 or more, rather than the total cost.

 

[david737]

Just seen an advert posted on indeed 2 hour's ago for a mechanic for monarch bit odd!

That would be for a job with Monarch Aircraft Engineering Ltd which is still trading as it is a separate company from Monarch Airlines.

 

[baz962]

That would be for a job with Monarch Aircraft Engineering Ltd which is still trading as it is a separate company from Monarch Airlines.

it would be but do monarch aircraft engineer's not do monarch planes so what will they fix now or am I missing something.

 

[ninja-lewis]

it would be but do monarch aircraft engineer's not do monarch planes so what will they fix now or am I missing something.

They maintain other airlines and cargo operators too.

https://www.monarchaircraftengineering.com/

 

[radamfi]

Absolutely correct. I did this years ago when Zoom went bust and had the money refunded before I even had to pay the bill. Its why I pay for all holiday bookings with my credit not debit card.

There is a sort of protection scheme with debit cards but its not as straightforward and has limitations.

Basically with a credit card the contract of purchase is between the card issuer and supplier- its not your problem if the supplier goes bust.

I also got caught up in the Zoom collapse and I got my money back quickly even though it was a debit, not a credit card. It was a Santander Visa Debit card.

 

[baz962]

They maintain other airlines and cargo operators too.

https://www.monarchaircraftengineering.com/

Ah I see thanks for that

 

[radamfi]

Maybe it is time for card payments for plane tickets to be taken after the trip, not before. Like when you guarantee a hotel room. The way it is at the moment, the airline can go bust and the innocent consumer loses money.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Maybe it is time for card payments for plane tickets to be taken after the trip, not before. Like when you guarantee a hotel room. The way it is at the moment, the airline can go bust and the innocent consumer loses money.

I think most travel experts would point in the direction of taking out a travel insurance policy, and paying for any £100-plus air tickets with a credit card for S.75 protection.

 

[AM9]

Maybe it is time for card payments for plane tickets to be taken after the trip, not before. Like when you guarantee a hotel room. The way it is at the moment, the airline can go bust and the innocent consumer loses money.

So you want to commit an airline 6 months before travel without any payment to them. Get ready for more bankruptcies then. Either pay by credit card or appropriate debit card (Visa Debit) when you will get your money back. Alternatively, get insurance for your travel expenses, (including the 'Airline Failure' cover).

 

[theageofthetra]

Theoretically the money is a loan from the German government. Whether they will get it back or indeed even expect to get it back is another question (though I have read suggestions that the government would be quite high up on any list of creditors).

Will German taxpayers get it back?

 

[theageofthetra]

I think S75 only covers you if the cost of each individual item is £100 or more, rather than the total cost.

Correct. Below that it's a travel insurance job.