Virgin East Coast Twitter

[Elecman]

I have always found the VWC twitter team extremely helpful when I have asked them a query by DM, I get a fairly rapid response and accurate info or help including reserving seats on the day of departure

 

[yorkie]

Here is an example of incorrect information:
https://twitter.com/Virgin_TrainsEC/status/901088049840476160

If you're travelling on split tickets, and one of the trains is late, unfortunately you can't automatically get the next available train ^JC

I would not rely on any information regarding fares & ticketing matters given out by the Virgin Trains EC account; check on this forum if in any doubt.

Do their Twitter and Customer Service staff not have access to the relevant conditions and the internal KnowledgeBase (iKB)? Just the other week one of their Guards* disregarded the iKB and Customer Services back him up. Unbelievable. The company is a disgrace.

I don't know how they get away with it.

It's not just passengers who are mistreated; many of their staff are disgruntled too!

(* I won't say the name but there have been numerous incidents which have required the company to refund the passengers; I have discussed the incorrect charging and concerning attitude of this individual with several victims over the years. Many people on here will know exactly who it is!)

 

[Suraggu]

I used to work with VTEC twitter team on a regular basis in a previous role and they are all decent human beings who try to add a human element to twitter. Not the standard droning noise others make.

 

[Smidster]

I used to work with VTEC twitter team on a regular basis in a previous role and they are all decent human beings who try to add a human element to twitter. Not the standard droning noise others make.

I don't think anyone is debating whether or not they are decent human beings - I am sure they are.

My issue is that they have been hired for their Social Media savvy and not because they are a trusted source of information. We are in a world where many see Twitter as the first place to go when there is a problem and unfortunately they get the answer wrong too often.

 

[yorkie]

I used to work with VTEC twitter team on a regular basis in a previous role and they are all decent human beings who try to add a human element to twitter. Not the standard droning noise others make.

I'm sure they are, but I have seen some of them mistreat customers, which is unacceptable. But that is likely to be the fault of poor training and instructions.

The problems at VTEC are far wider than the social media team, with clear management failings at a higher level to blame, but the failings of the Twitter team are highly visible and are made worse by the company's policy of inappropriate and poorly timed use of memes.

 

[DarloRich]

There are many examples of incorrect, misleading, or anti-consumer information.

For example look at their disgraceful response to Deerfold in his recent thread; this was a clear breach of consumer law and the Conditions of Travel. After giving appalling advice they then decided to ignore him.

Some of them are an utter disgrace to the rail industry; they appear more interested in posting memes than helping people. In another thread they were compared to 12-year-olds but I know several kids that age who are more interested in helping people than time wasting memes and who communicate in a more mature manner.

They wouldn't get away with their poor behaviour on this forum so it is shocking that a train company is not only willing to put up with it, but even encourage it.

I am glad to see a dedicated thread on this matter, as their poor behaviour has been discussed in numerous threads, at the risk of taking other threads off-topic.

Whilst you may hold that view generally are we talking generally in this thread? The initial posting shows two examples. One where the TOC twitter user responded in kind to a rude person and the other where the information was officially incorrect but practically correct.

Personally if we are talking generally then generally I have had no issues with the TOC twitter accounts I interact with. They respond to my complaints, fix station issues and tell me if a bus replaces my train. Personally I feel you are taking the issue of memes (?) and a laid back, informal. communication far to seriously. There is a valid view view that a dull and dry twitter account focusing on delays and cancellations would be best but that doesn't really fit in with the the expressed corporate DNA/brand image Virgin like to portray.

I feel I ought to point out that many people in the real world lack the knowledge of the minutiae of ticketing systems that many here posses. Should a, lets say, 20 year old comms person new into the railways know the ticketing system inside out? I don't think so. I don't think they could acquire that knowledge in a time that would make them worth employing in what is a entry level position. It seems many here fail to understand this and expect perfection in others. Obviously they should know where to get that information and only communicate correct information to customers but it is clear to me that the operatives are encouraged or targeted/measured to respond to issues quickly and in real time. I wonder if there is any cross monitoring of resultant complaints and impacts on departmental KPI?

Finally & for the avoidance of doubt: OBVIOUSLY any advice given to customers should be accurate or point those customers to a source of correct advice if it is not known.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm sure they are, but I have seen some of them mistreat customers, which is unacceptable. But that is likely to be the fault of poor training and instructions.

The problems at VTEC are far wider than the social media team, with clear management failings at a higher level to blame, but the failings of the Twitter team are highly visible and are made worse by the company's policy of inappropriate and poorly timed use of memes.

Agreed - the issue is one of management. It is my view that speed of response is the measure. perhaps a case of more haste, less speed?

 

[Smidster]

In cases where the Twitter team get it wrong what kind of authority does that give the passenger to deal with disputes?

This is an example from today...a passenger wants to change an advance ticket for travel today.

The response -

"This can be done by paying extra at the station or on the train. Speak to the staff on arrival for a price"

I am fairly sure that is wrong and likely to lead to a hefty fare on board (journey was Doncaster - London)..Do they have any recourse (beyond hoping for good will) in presenting the twitter exchange?

 

[yorkie]

In cases where the Twitter team get it wrong what kind of authority does that give the passenger to deal with disputes?

This is an example from today...a passenger wants to change an advance ticket for travel today.

The response -

I am fairly sure that is wrong and likely to lead to a hefty fare on board (journey was Doncaster - London)..Do they have any recourse (beyond hoping for good will) in presenting the twitter exchange?

That's right; if they try buy it on board they could be charged £89 for a "Super" (!) Off Peak Single.

 

[LowLevel]

I find many TOC Twitter account operatives to be well meaning headaches - by which I mean their heart is in the right place and they obviously genuinely care, but they have little on the ground knowledge or experience so quite often hand out advice which is wrong - I sometimes end up metaphorically banging my head against a wall with frustration. They should all have to spend a mandatory fortnight with frontline teams so they know the layout of their trains and major stations and have a handle on their company processes in practice, rather than relying on outdated lines to take.

 

[whhistle]

Look at the initials... that will tell you whether EC have taken advice/help/staff from WC...

 

[Frontera2]

Half the time the social media departments are full of folk who don't give a flying anyway, just folk that get to sit on twitter and Facebook all day..

Absolute nonsense and frankly offensive to the many decent people that perform this important role day in and day out.

Maybe you should try and work behind a Twitter account for one of the London commuter TOCs, and get sworn at or abused on a regular basis? While still trying to do your absolute best.

I manage the Twitter team (amongst other things) for a large TOC, and can assure you that my team take their jobs seriously and try extremely hard to be the best they can be.

You don't need Railway knowledge to be "good" at Twitter, you need to be a quick learner and know where to find the information being asked. I compare it to a librarian, if you went into a library and asked something about astro physics, would you expect the librarian to be a rocket scientist? Of course you wouldn't but I bet they would be able to help you find the answer you wanted.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Look at the initials... that will tell you whether EC have taken advice/help/staff from WC...

No it won't ^PA on VTWC is different to ^PA on VTEC which makes it funny when they're both on at the same time and they're passing people between the different accounts. People will think they're the same person and just being a bit jobsworth on insisting they post to the correct account.

There's also an ^MM at VTWC and an ^MM sometimes posts for VTEC nightshift (the nightshift, 2300-0600, aren't part of the social media team which is why responses tend to be slower).

As for the buying an extra seat Tweet I provided a more accurate and useful answer quicker than the official reply:
[removed screenshot as image was too large - click on attached files below]
(If it [sp] seat is unoccupied then someone has the right to ask to sit there. You can’t block a seat like you can on the plane)

I'm still having to correct them on something as simple as weekend first pricing.

What's funny is I have people who follow me DM me questions about VTEC. My first thought is why don't they ask the question to VTEC directly, then I remember some of the replies they get and I understand why!

One other issue is that different members of the team seem to have different abilities. Someone had a flexible ticket and wouldn't know until on the day when they needed to book a bike onboard. They were told just to Tweet on the day and they'd sort it for them. When they did just that they were told they had to phone in (still long hold times at certain times of day) as the person on at that time didn't have access to reservations.

Incorrect information is never acceptable but people seemed to either enjoy or tolerate the carefree approach when things were going well but when it's accompanied by falling standards it's no longer a case of the light-hearted Virgin approach but more like a company that doesn't care!

 

[SaveECRewards]

This is a bit sloppy. Someone asked if they could get a £10 upgrade (possibly seen mention of Seatfrog) and instead of checking the date that they listed (which happens to be a Friday) automatically assumes it's a weekend and says the upgrade is between £15 and £25 and they just need to take a seat in first class on-board.

This could cost the person well over £100 in fare difference. I've seen it happen in first class before where people who mostly travel at weekends don't know the reality in weekday upgrades.

[removed screenshot as image was too large - click on attached files below]

 

[Clip]

Absolute nonsense and frankly offensive to the many decent people that perform this important role day in and day out.

Maybe you should try and work behind a Twitter account for one of the London commuter TOCs, and get sworn at or abused on a regular basis? While still trying to do your absolute best.

I manage the Twitter team (amongst other things) for a large TOC, and can assure you that my team take their jobs seriously and try extremely hard to be the best they can be.

You don't need Railway knowledge to be "good" at Twitter, you need to be a quick learner and know where to find the information being asked. I compare it to a librarian, if you went into a library and asked something about astro physics, would you expect the librarian to be a rocket scientist? Of course you wouldn't but I bet they would be able to help you find the answer you wanted.

All very true and people forget that they get bombarded by hundreds of tweets a day and that they are only human at the end of the day so will naturally get things wrong from time to time - but I guess hanging out on twitter feeds then complaining about them on here is the new thing.

 

[SaveECRewards]

All very true and people forget that they get bombarded by hundreds of tweets a day and that they are only human at the end of the day so will naturally get things wrong from time to time - but I guess hanging out on twitter feeds then complaining about them on here is the new thing.

Accuracy is important, and except when there's disruption VTEC don't get that many Tweets. Commute London shows the number of Tweets today compared to the average and then only some of these Tweets will be questions that need an answer.

As they have a customer facing role it's important that the advice they give is accurate and if they're not sure then they need to look it up. There's many examples where people have been given advice that could cost them dearly, cause them inconvenience or not claim the compensation they're entitled to (I've heard incorrect advice where they've said someone can't claim delay repay if their train was cancelled and the next train was on time!)

I agree with @Frontera2

You don't need Railway knowledge to be "good" at Twitter, you need to be a quick learner and know where to find the information being asked. I compare it to a librarian, if you went into a library and asked something about astro physics, would you expect the librarian to be a rocket scientist? Of course you wouldn't but I bet they would be able to help you find the answer you wanted.

If you're not sure of the answer you should have the tools at hand to find the correct answer. Even if you know the answer it's still worthwhile to periodically check in case something has changed (many on there still think reservations close 18:00 the day before travel).

Fortunately for the VTEC team they don't get the sort of abuse that those who run the commuter TOC accounts do. One of the VTEC team left last year and moved to GTR, quite a brave thing to do.

 

[takno]

You don't need Railway knowledge to be "good" at Twitter, you need to be a quick learner and know where to find the information being asked. I compare it to a librarian, if you went into a library and asked something about astro physics, would you expect the librarian to be a rocket scientist? Of course you wouldn't but I bet they would be able to help you find the answer you wanted.

I would expect a librarian to be degree qualified with a postgraduate qualification in librarianship which would enable them to take a professional and robust approach to research. Sadly people who failed to properly value decent research seem to have decided that a quick google is good enough, and the profession has largely ceased to exist. I doubt the expected level of training for the twitter teams is that high, but they could certainly start to make up for that with a few weeks training in the topic they're supposed to be answering questions on.

 

[Gemz91]

Absolute nonsense and frankly offensive to the many decent people that perform this important role day in and day out.

Maybe you should try and work behind a Twitter account for one of the London commuter TOCs, and get sworn at or abused on a regular basis? While still trying to do your absolute best.

I manage the Twitter team (amongst other things) for a large TOC, and can assure you that my team take their jobs seriously and try extremely hard to be the best they can be.

You don't need Railway knowledge to be "good" at Twitter, you need to be a quick learner and know where to find the information being asked. I compare it to a librarian, if you went into a library and asked something about astro physics, would you expect the librarian to be a rocket scientist? Of course you wouldn't but I bet they would be able to help you find the answer you wanted.

I personally struggle to understand how grown adults can get upset by other strangers swearing on a Twitter feed they are responsible for updating.

 

[GusB]

I personally struggle to understand how grown adults can get upset by other strangers swearing on a Twitter feed they are responsible for updating.

I personally don't understand how grown adults cannot interact with customer-facing staff without needing to yell and swear! The key word is "adults". As someone who is in a customer-facing role in a different industry, I'm regularly on the receiving end of shouting and swearing. Most of the time it isn't directed at me personally, and I let most of it go by, but there are some individuals out there who are just nasty pieces of work. I certainly cannot repeat on here some of the things people have said to me. Occasionally you will get the odd day where it seems that all you're getting is abuse, and no matter how well trained you are to deal with it, it's hard not to let it get you down.

 

[Gemz91]

I personally don't understand how grown adults cannot interact with customer-facing staff without needing to yell and swear! The key word is "adults". As someone who is in a customer-facing role in a different industry, I'm regularly on the receiving end of shouting and swearing. Most of the time it isn't directed at me personally, and I let most of it go by, but there are some individuals out there who are just nasty pieces of work. I certainly cannot repeat on here some of the things people have said to me. Occasionally you will get the odd day where it seems that all you're getting is abuse, and no matter how well trained you are to deal with it, it's hard not to let it get you down.

Face to face abuse is different in my opinion to online "abuse". I can see why some people would get upset if its face to face, just struggle to understand when its just words on a screen.

 

[goblinuser]

Virgin group should make one rail account which responds to West and East coast operations.

 

[Howezy_21]

Virgin group should make one rail account which responds to West and East coast operations.

While that would stop the confusion that happens between the two accounts, in reality it probably wouldn't work well due to the sheer number of tweets they would have to handle. Even as separate accounts the large number of tweets can cause some to be missed, and combining the two would essentially double the amount of tweets the twitter team has to handle.

 

[GusB]

Face to face abuse is different in my opinion to online "abuse". I can see why some people would get upset if its face to face, just struggle to understand when its just words on a screen.

Sorry, but I disagree. The words are the same regardless of how they're delivered. If someone is being threatening or abusive it doesn't make it any less threatening because it's just "words on a screen". I'm on the end of a phone line, so I'm not actually physically face-to-face with my customers, but it still shakes you up a bit if someone is really nasty. The problem with online media is that it is just words at the end of the day - you don't get to see the person you're dealing with, nor hear their voice, so it's easy to forget that there is still a human being at the other end.

 

[AndrewE]

I manage the Twitter team (amongst other things) for a large TOC, and can assure you that my team take their jobs seriously and try extremely hard to be the best they can be.

You don't need Railway knowledge to be "good" at Twitter, .

If you are giving information to the public on behalf of the railway then you bloody well do! I don't doubt that they try hard, but this is yet another example of an employer ignoring its responsibilities and blaming "enthusiastic but inexperienced" staff. Please tell us who put them in the seat and authorised them to act on behalf of the company?

I don't give a toss how good they are at twitter, if they are allowed to answer questions about anything contractual then how can the employer pretend it is any kind of an information service if they haven't been trained in the actual conditions of carriage (i.e. rules that can lead to prosecutions if infringed) or timetable and operating realities
We see here examples of completely wrong answers to basic questions on (e.g. ticket validity or routing) which will only lead that customer into conflict with someone "official" a bit further down the line.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you are giving information to the public on behalf of the railway then you bloody well do! I don't doubt that they try hard, but this is yet another example of an employer ignoring its responsibilities and blaming "enthusiastic but inexperienced" staff. Please tell us who put them in the seat and authorised them to act on behalf of the company?

I don't give a toss how good they are at twitter, if they are allowed to answer questions about anything contractual then how can the employer pretend it is any kind of an information service if they haven't been trained in the actual conditions of carriage (i.e. rules that can lead to prosecutions if infringed) or timetable and operating realities
We see here examples of completely wrong answers to basic questions on (e.g. ticket validity or routing) which will only lead that customer into conflict with someone "official" a bit further down the line.

A very naughty selective quote there, leaving out the part where he explains that basically you don’t need to be an encyclopaedia, but rather have the knowledge and confidence to seek out the right answer when you don’t know it.

The job of a Twitter handler is not to know everything (despite them being asked about everything!) No employee can hope to know everything.

I did this job for several years and had a very good working knowledge of the railway. Nonetheless I couldn’t recite some obscure Conditions in the NRCoC, but fortunately you’re allowed to look at it at work.

 

[GusB]

A very naughty selective quote there, leaving out the part where he explains that basically you don’t need to be an encyclopaedia, but rather have the knowledge and confidence to seek out the right answer when you don’t know it.

The job of a Twitter handler is not to know everything (despite them being asked about everything!) No employee can hope to know everything.

I did this job for several years and had a very good working knowledge of the railway. Nonetheless I couldn’t recite some obscure Conditions in the NRCoC, but fortunately you’re allowed to look at it at work.

A prime example of this is when you have to refuse to give information because of the Data Protection Act. I had one particular nasty individual ask me to quote all the principles of the act verbatim.

 

[Butts]

Virgin group should make one rail account which responds to West and East coast operations.

That would be interesting !!

Has anyone ever asked them why East Coast Lounges are so sparsely provisioned compared to West Coast ones ?

 

[Minilad]

This gives a new angle on the old chestnut "the man on the platform said I could"
Now to add to that we can have "the man on the computer/my phone said I could"

 

[Mag_seven]

This gives a new angle on the old chestnut "the man on the platform said I could"
Now to add to that we can have "the man on the computer/my phone said I could"

Main difference is of course you have a record of the latter (unless its deleted of course).

 

[AndrewE]

A very naughty selective quote there, leaving out the part where he explains that basically you don’t need to be an encyclopaedia, but rather have the knowledge and confidence to seek out the right answer when you don’t know it.

The job of a Twitter handler is not to know everything (despite them being asked about everything!) No employee can hope to know everything.

I did this job for several years and had a very good working knowledge of the railway. Nonetheless I couldn’t recite some obscure Conditions in the NRCoC, but fortunately you’re allowed to look at it at work.

If the system works then how come there are these complaints then? (and not just trivial complaints, but about important things.) The twitter people clearly don't

"have the knowledge and confidence to seek out the right answer when [they] don’t know it"

I started my career giving out railway information and first I was trained and after that there was almost always a supervisor who could help with more obscure things.