Virgin East Coast Twitter

[Mojo]

I'm ashamed to say I've never heard of Pride Month.

It’s an Americanism.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s an Americanism.

Doesn’t surprise me. Ideas like that often come from the USA; they certainly don’t do things by halves...

 

[martin2345uk]

If I'm honest, it is reasonable to question if their priorities are correct, but VTEC is a completely separate firm to VTWC and thus under different management. Not to mention, Virgin as a whole conglomerate probably has over 50,000 employees, some of which are bound to be of the LGBT community who have worked and helped build up the company to what it is today. Richard Branson didn't create a billion-pound brand by himself, he had people. Even if it is a bit preachy, they have made a very valid point in their response.

Very few if any countries persecute people because of their straight sexual orientation. By contrast, there are still a lot of countries in the world that beat people to death for what they clearly cannot help, especially religious nations who for some reason believe everyone is made in their god's image but say homosexuality is a sin. Isn't that in god's image? Are you questioning the creation of your all-good, all-powerful omnipotent overlord? You see how silly that sounded? Well that's usually the reasons homosexuality is punishable for death. Because apparently some book they read doesn't approve. Load of nonsense to say the least.

As such it's really lucky for gay westerners to not be prosecuted or executed unfairly for their naturally sexual orientation. I think the fact I refer to that as lucky is unfortunate, but it's true. Despite the fact homosexuality has been observed in many other species of animals, gay people are still persecuted in the world for their ways. Even if on the off-chance humans were homosexual purely by lifestyle choice, so what? Unless they actively attempt to rape you, their sexual preferences aren't anyone's concern. So to be able to freely be openly gay in the United Kingdom is reasonable cause for celebration, though it may get a preachy at times.

But subjectively preachy marches and speeches and so on is a small price to pay for freedom. I may have sounded a bit unusually preachy there myself, but I think if Virgin Trains are able to do this and still run themselves on a day-to-day basis, I don't see any reason for them not to celebrate pride months. Obviously straight people are pretty much the reason we can continue as a species, since homosexuals can't reproduce (least not to my knowledge), and it's true we wouldn't be here without them. But it's no big deal really, because as I've said homosexuality is natural and observed in many other kinds of animals. I've even seen it with dogs myself.

What a great post mate. Thank you. I get really wound up by things like “when’s Straight Pride?” or “what are they proud of exactly?”
To me it’s not saying we’re PROUD to be gay, it’s more like saying we’re not ashamed, as we’re often made to feel. I can’t walk down the street holding my husband’s hand (well I can but we get various nasty comments), whereas a straight couple wouldn’t even have to think about it.

Sorry for more off topicness

 

[alxndr]

Then they probably need to get over themselves and have a reality check.

There's a distinction between not being comfortable with Pride events (in terms of the "march" and physical gathering) and not being comfortable with Pride as a concept/month or LGBT people. It sounds like in the friend thenorthern describes is in the former camp.

I wouldn't go to a general Pride event myself (although I have been to one smaller, more specific Pride event twice) as from what I've seen it's not an environment I'd feel comfortable in. I simply don't enjoy loud, crowded events, often with alcohol consumption, and being so publicly visible. Lots of people also take issue to the increasing commercialisation of larger events, although I don't feel I can comment on this as I've not been to one but can very much understand where they might be coming from. That doesn't mean that I don't feel comfortable with Pride as a concept or dislike other ways of recognising the history of LGBT people, their right to openly exist without fear of persecution and be afforded the same rights as people who are not LGBT.

To go back to VTEC Twitter, good on them for standing up for their decision to openly support LGBT people. Seeing companies do so helps to normalise it and might help some people realise that it's okay and that there are companies out there who would be supportive employers. I'm still not keen on the frequent use of people's name though, it does come across as a bit condescending, although there's probably some policy on giving tweets a personal touch when replying.

 

[AlterEgo]

Will Brian Souter be going to one?

Excellent question.

 

[martin2345uk]

Highly unlikely! Unless it was to spit on us

 

[mde]

Excellent question.

More chance of blood out of a stone unfortunately. Going by his website, you can infer that his position hasn't changed.

Sad, but, everyone is entitled to their own opinion I suppose.

 

[AlterEgo]

More chance of blood out of a stone unfortunately. Going by his website, you can infer that his position hasn't changed.

Sad, but, everyone is entitled to their own opinion I suppose.

That’s why people shouldn’t be lauding VTEC. Souter is a committed homophobe and putting a rainbow on his train isn’t going to paper over that fact. I agree with the commenter on their Facebook page that Pride is a publicity stunt by VTEC. Of course it is; the head of the company that owns them spent a ton of his own money trying to suppress LGBT issues from being taught in schools.

Some of the criticism VTEC got was unwarranted and very rude, but using people’s names in the patronising way they did and saying things like “it’s called multi tasking” was also unnecessary and snippy. So is the implication that supporting Pride is the mark of a decent human being - it’s neither here nor there - that should have been left out as it implies that someone who is sceptical or cynical about Pride isn’t a decent human being.

I don’t really get why VTEC have been rude. They’ve also happily left in comments calling the original poster a “f***ing prick” as well as a few saying “Rory is in the closet” and a “closet gay” and one offering Rory to “suck his willy” as it’ll “shut him up for a while”. There are a number of other offensive comments on the page like “f*** off and when you get there you can f*** off some more”. Virgin have been replying continuously to the post and cannot have missed these.

The best way to deal with criticism like the stuff they got is to use “Hide from Page” which essentially mutes them so nobody except the original poster can see it. It stops a lot of nastiness.

 

[IanXC]

That’s why people shouldn’t be lauding VTEC. Souter is a committed homophobe and putting a rainbow on his train isn’t going to paper over that fact. I agree with the commenter on their Facebook page that Pride is a publicity stunt by VTEC. Of course it is; the head of the company that owns them spent a ton of his own money trying to suppress LGBT issues from being taught in schools.

Lets just unpick that a moment. The Group Chairman of a Publicly listed company running a 'publicity stunt' in support of a cause he has previously campaigned against? I can't help but think you're building a conspiracy theory here. In all reality I'd be astounded if any of this has been decided or considered by anyone outside of East Coast Mainline Ltd. Do you really think that applying some vinyls to a train and a bit of social media activity requires approval by the board of a FTSE250 company?!

Some of the criticism VTEC got was unwarranted and very rude, but using people’s names in the patronising way they did and saying things like “it’s called multi tasking” was also unnecessary and snippy. So is the implication that supporting Pride is the mark of a decent human being - it’s neither here nor there - that should have been left out as it implies that someone who is sceptical or cynical about Pride isn’t a decent human being.

So all you're saying is you don't like their corporate tone of voice? And this occasion is anything new and different because?

Companies for better or worse have 'brand values' and lets face it their not likely to be particularly controversial due to the impact on the business. Beyond that I struggle with whether you are really referring to Pride events, or to the underlying LGBT agenda. The fact is that the mainstream view in this country has changed markedly over the years, and clearly VTEC feel able to express this view in their corporate outlook.

Or is this just about street parades?

I don’t really get why VTEC have been rude. They’ve also happily left in comments calling the original poster a “f***ing prick” as well as a few saying “Rory is in the closet” and a “closet gay” and one offering Rory to “suck his willy” as it’ll “shut him up for a while”. There are a number of other offensive comments on the page like “f*** off and when you get there you can f*** off some more”. Virgin have been replying continuously to the post and cannot have missed these.

The best way to deal with criticism like the stuff they got is to use “Hide from Page” which essentially mutes them so nobody except the original poster can see it. It stops a lot of nastiness.

I've been completely unable to locate the vast majority of what you're claiming has been posted and allowed to stand here.

 

[AlterEgo]

Lets just unpick that a moment. The Group Chairman of a Publicly listed company running a 'publicity stunt' in support of a cause he has previously campaigned against? I can't help but think you're building a conspiracy theory here. In all reality I'd be astounded if any of this has been decided or considered by anyone outside of East Coast Mainline Ltd. Do you really think that applying some vinyls to a train and a bit of social media activity requires approval by the board of a FTSE250 company?!

Talk about 2+2=5...

That isn’t what I said is it?

I’m pointing out how it’s wrong that Souter and his company are benefiting from the PR generated by supporting Pride when we can be very sure Souter doesn’t support it at all in a personal capacity. Souter spent a load of his own money trying to ensure young gay people don’t get taught their sexuality or lifestyle is acceptable or normal, which is a dreadful thing to do. His website further explains his position. I haven’t suggested in any way that Souter is behind vinyling the trains have I?

So all you're saying is you don't like their corporate tone of voice? And this occasion is anything new and different because?

I’ve said consistently throughout this thread I don’t think their corporate tone of voice is appropriate - especially in the current climate.

On this occasion however the replies were sent by an employee on an ad hoc basis and I think they could have been worded in a politer and less patronising way. Or, they could have simply pressed “Hide from Page” to get rid of the unpleasantness.

Companies for better or worse have 'brand values' and lets face it their not likely to be particularly controversial due to the impact on the business. Beyond that I struggle with whether you are really referring to Pride events, or to the underlying LGBT agenda. The fact is that the mainstream view in this country has changed markedly over the years, and clearly VTEC feel able to express this view in their corporate outlook.

Or is this just about street parades?

No, I’m commenting on a specific comment made by the employee which references the fact that Virgin are supporting Pride is because they are decent human beings. The implication there is that if you don’t support it then you are not a decent human being. I support the idea of Pride, but I’m also aware it’s possible to be a good person and not support it too. I think it was the wrong thing to say however well intentioned it was.

The other thing is that if you are going to clap back at people who are abusive, and wade in on your *own* social media account as well to “take credit”, you better be sure you don’t have a history of calling your customers “c***ts” - more than once.

I've been completely unable to locate the vast majority of what you're claiming has been posted and allowed to stand here.

You need to press “Show More Replies”. I have attached the offensive and abusive posts Virgin have allowed to stand without censure.

There was a further post in which someone was told to “f*** off and f***off some more* which I cannot now find but was certainly there earlier.

Overall, bad show.

 

[route:oxford]

I’m pointing out how it’s wrong that Souter and his company are benefiting from the PR generated by supporting Pride when we can be very sure Souter doesn’t support it at all in a personal capacity. Souter spent a load of his own money trying to ensure young gay people don’t get taught their sexuality or lifestyle is acceptable or normal, which is a dreadful thing to do. His website further explains his position. I haven’t suggested in any way that Souter is behind vinyling the trains have I?

There's nothing wrong with making money from something you don't believe in.

How many "haunted" castles are there in the UK?
How many ministers truly believe in a deity?
How many fat nurses are out there preaching to patients to watch what they eat?
Or Jewish/Muslim retail owners who sell bacon?

I had a client who was a butcher & poulterer and a Jehova's Witness. Do you think the family refused to sell Goose & Turkeys in December?
I also had a firm that was run by a staunch Catholic family who ran a very profitable business managing the condom machines you find in pubs.

Belief and commerce are two completely separate things.

 

[whhistle]

I mean, this is where stuff get personal.

"Rory" is doing what he's been told and trying to do the best he can while being in the public view. I did this once and was ripped because Twitter isn't really the place to fully explain things and the pressure of "must always reply" = not a great situation.

But then when people start making it personal by calling someone a closet gay... this then makes me think that gay people are just as bad as straight people: both straight people/gay people/bi people/no gender people/whatever else there is are always happy to attack someone who doesn't appear to share their own view.

Everyone fights battles. What would happen if "Rory" felt awful and went out and killed himself? I bet the people in the screenshot wouldn't care. I'd personally see it as an assessory to murder or something similar.

You may not agree with what a company is saying, but the person saying it may not agree either - it's just their job.
Slightly off topic, but another example that explains it well is call centre cold callers. There was a suggestion that we should be a bit nicer to them as it's just their job and they probably have no choice in doing it.

 

[AlterEgo]

There's nothing wrong with making money from something you don't believe in.

How many "haunted" castles are there in the UK?
How many ministers truly believe in a deity?
How many fat nurses are out there preaching to patients to watch what they eat?
Or Jewish/Muslim retail owners who sell bacon?

I had a client who was a butcher & poulterer and a Jehova's Witness. Do you think the family refused to sell Goose & Turkeys in December?
I also had a firm that was run by a staunch Catholic family who ran a very profitable business managing the condom machines you find in pubs.

Belief and commerce are two completely separate things.

There’s a difference between the Willy Wonka example of selling gum but preaching to children that it’s bad, and paying vast amounts of money to try and suppress the teaching of homosexual lifestyles to children who may or may not be gay or lesbian; the incidence of self harm and suicide attempts among gay people is very high.

If you can’t see the difference then I’m sorry for you.

 

[AlterEgo]

But then when people start making it personal by calling someone a closet gay... this then makes me think that gay people are just as bad as straight people.

Firstly we don’t know if the person who said that is gay.

Secondly, gay people are...just people. They’re no better or worse than anyone else and have all the same faults the rest of humanity have.

Reminds me of the time Paralympians were caught cheating with drugs at the last Games and everyone was super shocked. Well Jesus Christ guys, they’re just as prone to being greedy and stupid as everyone else.