Class 345 progress

[YorkshireBear]

Has anyone sampled both the class 700 and class 345 and wish to compare?

 

[rebmcr]

Has anyone sampled both the class 700 and class 345 and wish to compare?

There are many such examples earlier in this thread.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yeah I did very much doubt they'd use the 315s.

 

[futureA]

I think this one is lost

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Has anyone sampled both the class 700 and class 345 and wish to compare?

Both bullied by forum members

I like them both, but I dislike the painty smell of 700s. 345s i love purely because they replaced the 315s.

Quite like how the 700s have a Desiro UFO sound on 3rd rail, then suddenly change to a high pitched sound like 465/1s with overhead wires.

 

[J-2739]

I think this one is lost

Where was that taken?

 

[futureA]

Where was that taken?

Bow Juction/ Bow Road

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Why was one there? Just like the Southend Victoria test, it's pointless.

 

[306024]

So testing trains on the Southend line is pointless, and having a standby train for the evening peak waiting to take the place of a train cancelled at short notice (and prevent the crowds building up at Stratford) is also pointless.

Hmmm.....

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What? I said nothing about the second one!

 

[306024]

Near zero chance they'd send 315s over the other side. 360s would stay in an emergency but I don't see an issue with a 345 shortage. They only need 4 units and there are already at least 8 over on the GE side that have been in service, plus at least two more I haven't seen out and about yet.

Only need 4 units for the current timetable, but 6 units are required for a 15 minute frequency timetable, plus maintenance spares. But even so sufficient units will be built by then.

 

[class387]

What? I said nothing about the second one!

That's why it's there.

 

[306024]

What? I said nothing about the second one!

Err, did you not ask why there was a photograph of a 345 on the Bow Jn to Gas Factory Jn line? Well now you know.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Well, that makes total sense. Not.

Edit: That isn't for the post above, its for the one above that.
I dislike the new way of quoting, takes longer, so don't do it often now.

 

[306024]

Well, that makes total sense. Not.

Edit: That isn't for the post above, its for the one above that.
I dislike the new way of quoting, takes longer, so don't do it often now.

There that's how it's done. This reminds me of a Two Ronnies sketch where Ronnie Barker answered the last question but one.

 

[Via Bank]

I think this one is lost

I'm pretty sure I've seen one before on that same bridge, around 2000 one evening (I forget which) - and ISTR seeing one in the morning peak around 0900 too. My commute is literally along that blue cycle track, so I know the area pretty well.

I managed to have a ride on one quite recently. Aside from a single PIS screen that was dimmer than it should've been (but still perfectly legible), and the door buttons feeling a bit weird, I was extremely impressed. Nice ambiance, comfortable seating, no nonsense. They'll be good workhorses for Crossrail and LO (and GA and SWR, when they arrive.)

 

[class387]

Well, that makes total sense. Not.

Edit: That isn't for the post above, its for the one above that.
I dislike the new way of quoting, takes longer, so don't do it often now.

You said that having a 345 at Bow Jn was pointless. 306024 explained why it isn't. Then you claimed that you never said that it was pointless. But that is why it is there!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

OK, forget it!

 

[samuelmorris]

Both bullied by forum members

I don't remember being bullied for my opinion. I've done a few hundred miles and 10+ hours on each class now. If we're looking for a comprehensive summary:

Acceleration: Both are excellent, though of course the 700 is less impressive on DC due to the power restrictions
Seating capacity: Slightly higher on the 700 (2.7 per metre vs 2.25 on the 345)
Air conditioning efficacy: Broadly similar, both classes very capable when empty, acceptable but far from exemplary when full.
Air conditioning noise: Much quieter on Class 700. However, Class 345 A/C is still somewhat quieter than Desiro UK units (e.g. 360/450), however is already making concerning noises on several units, suggesting it may be of poor quality.
Electrical system noise: Much quieter on Class 345. Transformer noise somewhat intrusive if directly above on 345, otherwise minimal. Inverter noise very prevalent throughout the 700, worst of all in first class.
Traction system noise: Quieter on Class 345, both classes good from inside. 345 external noise level is lowest of any EMU I have ever heard.

Seat comfort/padding: Very poor on both units. 345 longitudinal seats firmer than transverse seats but both very hard. Class 700 seats somewhat softer but still very firm compared with older units.
Seat comfort/spacing & size: Good on class 345, transverse seats correctly spaced with armrests, longitudinal seats typical width, ample for most bodies. Class 700 very poor in most areas outside first class, airline seat pitch is too low for passengers over around 5'10 and floor level ducts impede substantially on window seats. 345 is superior for comfort overall despite firm seats which will cause backache for some (The 345 is the only unit in recent memory to have triggered my sciatica)

Lighting: Subdued on both units compared to the modern trend on most stock which is pleasing, though use of cold white LEDs & white panels gives the 700 a clinical look, especially when combined with use of the same strongly odoured interior panels commonly seen in modern schools and hospitals. Dark grey interior panels and warm white lighting makes the 345s seem much more cosy by comparison despite their metro configuration, even to the point of being slightly dingy.

Door operation/sounders: Both units feature ample wide doors, though 345 offers quicker dwell times due to three door sets per vehicle, though with plug doors, these are slower to operate and sometimes erroneously detect obstructions.
Sounders clearly audible on both units, but tolerable on Class 700, very loud on Class 345, to the point of causing discomfort on an empty unit (similar to sitting directly underneath the speaker when the ready for dispatch tone plays on a DLR train).

Information system
Level of information provided: Class 700 greatly superior with TfL status alerts (sometimes), all calling points listed visually & audibly, train load level graphics, toilet availability (N/A on 345 of course) and other messages displayed.
Reliability of system: Class 345 vastly superior. Graphically, the system on the 345 is very reliable, on the 700 it is borderline unfit for service, displaying inaccurate or no information on at least 20-25% of the fleet. TfL status alerts are very rarely accurate. The data system feeding displays on the 700s is in need of attention. Units in service for approaching 18 months and fully deployed on the routes they currently serve should not behave like this.
Design of system: Mixed between the two classes. The 'next 3 stations' graphic with interchanges displayed underneath is very efficient and useful. The text on 345s is so large, information is needlessly omitted. The displays on the 700 look clearer due to the more reasonably sized text and are actually easier to read as a result. Text and announcements on 345 is shorthand and abbreviated so greatly that it can be easy to miss important information. Audio announcements play at consistent, but inappropriate times. In short, 700s offer too much information in parts, 345s too little in parts.
Audio quality: Class 700 greatly superior. Though displays are regularly out of service on 700s, audio announcements are reliable. On Class 345, announcements will play reliably but cannot always be produced correctly by the system and often play distorted, sometimes cut short or repeat. The driver's microphone on the 345 is very poor quality and although extremely loud, usually unintelligible, similar to 92 Tube Stock. The driver playing an announcement at the same time as an automated announcement can crash the audio processor and play a loud screeching noise throughout the train. This system needs a lot of work on the 345.



The long & short:

I've travelled on both classes a lot and I like them both. However, neither of them are quite what they should be. The 345 scores highly for being much closer to a 'finished product' despite being newer on the block.
The 700 is let down by a questionable seating specification and very poorly programmed info displays, but is otherwise a fine train and seems very well put together.
The 345 is let down by the firmest seats on the network, poorly programmed audio system and slightly lower build quality than the 700, but like for like, if you can tolerate the seats, is a nicer unit to travel on.
Both trains are extremely powerful with good acceleration and can ingest and egest large crowds with ease.

This of course does not talk of the TOCs that operate these trains - the fact that if you board a 345 you are likely to reach your destination within 5 minutes or so of when you expect. If you board a 700 and you're hard of hearing, you may never know you're on the wrong train until it's too late, and even if you are on the right train you may not reach your destination at all!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I meant the trains were bullied! Not people!!!

 

[306024]

I meant the trains were bullied! Not people!!!

Bullied or Bulleid ?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’m sorry, I don’t get it

 

[306024]

Clue: Try Googling Oliver Vaughan Snell Bulleid. Lots to learn about him, but he didn't design 345s.

 

[spark001uk]

I’m sorry, I don’t get it

I believe the intended joke is in the spelling "Bulleid", lending itself to the late Oliver Bulleid, the famous railway engineer, and a number of locos and EMUs which he designed ended up taking on the name. (sort of)

 

[spark001uk]

[duplicate, ignore]

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well, that makes total sense. Not.

Edit: That isn't for the post above, its for the one above that.
I dislike the new way of quoting, takes longer, so don't do it often now.

Click "reply" and it automatically quotes the post you reply to.

 

[samuelmorris]

315s substituting on 2W52 tonight...
Any news on the PIS update?

 

[childwallblues]

345014 was noted on LNWR Crewe on both Friday and Saturday.

 

[Bald Rick]

There that's how it's done. This reminds me of a Two Ronnies sketch where Ronnie Barker answered the last question but one.

Ronnie Corbett did the answering. (My all time favourite two Ronnies sketch).

Meanwhile, back on topic, any substance to the rumours that TfL / MTR are refusing to accept any more deliveries?

 

[AlexNL]

Are these units bought directly by TfL or are they being procured by a ROSCO?