The driver's view: 'The memory of a rail suicide never leaves you'

[Adlington]

A train driver relates his story to BBC Radio 5 Live:

"I can remember every second of it. At 125 mph (200 km/h), by the time you see something, it's virtually impossible to stop. When you see that person standing in front of your train you do everything you possibly can to encourage them to move out the way. You're blowing the horn, you put the emergency brake on. But then, you just sit looking at what's coming and everything goes into slow motion.

Your training kicks in and you deal with the signallers, you contact the police, you deal with the incident. You make sure the train's safe and the passengers on the train are safe and nothing's going to happen. Then you sit there and you wait for help to come. You're spoken to and reports are taken. It takes several hours for the incident to be dealt with and then you're taken home.

You've got to go and drive the same trains over the same section of track, day in and day out. The impact wears away but it's always still there.I still drive over the same piece of track now. There's still days where it's the same sort of light, the same sort of day, then it comes flying back to you. You remember it.

You may wish to compare it with a Mobile Operations Manager's story, elsewhere in this forum.

 

[DarloRich]

I missed this when i posted the same link into the WCML closed thread.

 

[Lrd]

Thanks for posting it (both of you). It certainly hits home

 

[Mag_seven]

Given the number of VTWC services involved recently its a wonder they are not short of drivers as those drivers involved may have to go on sick leave? I don't envy these guys one bit wondering if today it will happen to them.

 

[skyhigh]

Having attended multiple fatalities in my time with BTP, I agree that it's something that I'll probably never forget, and it must be even worse for drivers.

From the above article:

There they become a real person with a name, an age, a family and their own problems, and you realise how they ended up there.

Delivering the death messages to the family were probably the hardest part of that job - dealing with the scene and 'recovery' is difficult, but you can distance yourself from the situation. Going to the family makes it all very real as you find out the background.

 

[Oxfordblues]

One night in the mid-1970s there was a suicide on the WCML just south of Warrington Bank Quay near Arpley Yard. The Yard Master on duty went out to deal with the aftermath. He returned with a hessian sack inside which was a heavy object. He dropped it with thud on the office desk and everyone jumped. Asked what he'd brought back, the Yard Master announced that it was the victim's head. I wasn't present that night but was told this later by someone who was. It became a local railway legend at Warrington. Nobody there will ever forget that night.

 

[MarkWi72]

Awful news. Apologies if my source was wrong, by the way re the figures. I was alarmed to be honest when I read them.

 

[63a]

Having attended multiple fatalities in my time with BTP, I agree that it's something that I'll probably never forget, and it must be even worse for drivers.

From the above article:

Delivering the death messages to the family were probably the hardest part of that job - dealing with the scene and 'recovery' is difficult, but you can distance yourself from the situation. Going to the family makes it all very real as you find out the background.

Where I worked, the management tried to ensure that if you dealt with the casualty at the scene, then someone else went to see the family / next of kin. I agree with you totally - dealing at the scene is never good, but IMHO better that than having to deliver the agony message.

 

[bramling]

Having attended multiple fatalities in my time with BTP, I agree that it's something that I'll probably never forget, and it must be even worse for drivers.

From the above article:

Delivering the death messages to the family were probably the hardest part of that job - dealing with the scene and 'recovery' is difficult, but you can distance yourself from the situation. Going to the family makes it all very real as you find out the background.

I’d never get involved with any death message, in my view that’s for the BTP. I’ve been to about a dozen incidents over the years, and have been on the front of a train when it happened (not driving). In all honesty I can’t say it affects me greatly, especially as time has gone on.

What can be more of an issue is the level of hype at such incidents. It only takes one idiot to turn up and start stirring things up, be they railway staff or emergency services. Sadly in my experience this is all too common. It’s also the slippery slope to something going wrong. Try to rush things and an error somewhere is very likely - this can then lead to more delay or at worst a secondary mess-up like a near miss.

Likewise you can have an incident that’s gone relatively well. Then in the hours afterwards people who weren’t involved start becoming armchair experts. Why wasn’t this done? Why did that take so long? Why did it take so long between the driver getting in and the train moving off? I was looking on the cctv and there was a lot of standing around not doing much. Etc etc etc. This leaves more of a bad taste in the mouth than the actual incident.

It is also often the case that the driver, rightly, gets a lot of sympathy and support after the incident, but little thought goes to anyone else. If station staff go sick afterwards they are often viewed as milking it, and much more so if a manager goes sick.

 

[westcoaster]

As a driver who has been involved in a fatality, I can say it a mind numbing situation to be in.
I won't go into great detail about that night but I remember the date/time/loction/ unit number/cab end/Headcode, like anything it's vivid and it sticks. If anyone asks or we talk about it it rolls of the tounge.
For me personally I had so many questions, but they just dont seem to get answered or to be asked. The two main ones are HOW and WHY.
The process can be long and drawn out, it took 3 months for a formal statement to be taken, 6 months for the inquest. Did the inquest for which I had to attend answer these questions, in my case no it only made more questions, questions which will never be answered.

I can' thank my wife, family and work colleagues enough, they took time and interest in me, to talk and listen. I found talking the key to the whole situation, and still do now 3 years down the line.
I receved good care from my employer and the counciling services offered.

I agree with this campaign whole heartedly, it really is good to stop take time and talk.

 

[Panupreset]

I think people understand how horrific it is when you have a fatality. Nothing can prepare you for that day.
What I think many people will not realise is how hard the journey to recovery is. One of the first things you have to do is get signed off sick. I found being sat in a Doctor's reception, waiting to see a GP I had never met before to explain I needed to get signed off because I had run someone over with my train extremely daunting.
You get given a phone number to call to arrange counselling. I put off the call for a few days - again you have got to talk to a complete stranger about something totally horrific. I had to do an assessment over the phone and some of the things I got asked got my back up as I thought, and still do, that they were ridiculous things to ask.
Attending counselling for the first time was like the Doctor's surgery. Going to a strangers house to talk to them about the worst day you have ever had in the job was again a really tough thing to do. I walked up and down the road past the counsellors house at least 3 times, nearly in tears, thinking 'I cannot do this'. Somehow I found a way.
Counselling did help for me, but it is not without its challenges. Sometimes you have had a good few days and then you have to go and talk about it all and you can end up feeling worse when you get home then when you left for the session.
Giving my statement to the police wasn't too bad an experience for me, it being done at my home. It was still very draining, took over two hours. I felt as drained after it as I do after doing the longest diagram I work. Another day having to relive the horror of what happened.
People tell you 'it's not your fault' & 'there was nothing you could have done'. Deep down you know that but I suspect many drivers, like I did, had times when they felt guilty. Or a sense of utter hopelessness that you didn't have it in your power to stop it happening. Sometimes the mind works irrationally and you think 'what if someone thinks I am to blame?'.
I worked out during counselling I was probably in shock for about 3 weeks. A feeling of being in a bubble. Eventually it bursts and you realise this has happened to you, it's real and you have got to find a way to deal with the fact you have been the instrument of someone's death for the rest of your life. You have two choices as the guy in the article said. Get back in the chair and deal with having to drive trains every day past where it happened, or pack your job in.
But it isn't all bad. The support from family and friends makes you feel blessed. The best thing about the railway isn't Pendolino's, ERTMS, GSMR or WSP - it's the people. The support from your colleagues is just as important as the support at home. And most people find a way to get back in the chair.

 

[MarkWi72]

Thanks for posting these experiences. I cannot begin to imagine how you could have felt or how this would feel. All we all can do here is champion railway staff, the work they do and call for mental health awareness education (for all).

 

[skyhigh]

Where I worked, the management tried to ensure that if you dealt with the casualty at the scene, then someone else went to see the family / next of kin. I agree with you totally - dealing at the scene is never good, but IMHO better that than having to deliver the agony message.

That's the intention where I worked as well, but due to staffing levels etc. it often wasn't possible to only do one. I found that the management was good, without undue hype. It's very much a BTP thing - obviously home office forces have sudden deaths, but they're far less frequent than on the railway.

For what it's worth, the follow up in the force is very good these days for the staff - if you're involved in a fatality, someone will contact you to discuss things in confidence, and if you feel like you need counselling/support that can be arranged there. I think that's much easier than having to pick up the phone/go and see someone if you need help.

I'll also leave a link here to a new campaign from Samaritans/BTP - https://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/our-campaigns/small-talk-saves-lives

SMALL TALK SAVES LIVES

Did you know a little small talk can be all it takes to interrupt someone’s suicidal thoughts?

We’ve launched Small Talk Saves Lives with Network Rail, British Transport Police and the wider rail industry to give people the confidence to help prevent suicide on the railways and beyond.

It’s built on a simple ask: that if you think somebody might need help, trust your instincts and strike up a conversation.

You could help save a life

 

[37057]

Fatalities have become an occasional (regularly expected) part of my job. It's actually good overtime when I'm not rostered in. I have to take a load of downloads and carry out technical inspections and testing to return units back to service. Luckily they're cleaned before I see them, but damage can still be present.

I've seen a few 390s in states of post fatalities. Even helped get the coupler off of Pendo 69148 a few years ago, still covered in bits.

See.... remembered the number..... and the guys facial hair from what was left........

The view I maintain is if that's what you wanted then good on ya! Hope everyone else can relate. But if it was a genuine accident then it's totally unfortunate and that those involve have to be involved.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Unfortunately, some drivers are emotionally scarred for life and they can never or don't want to ever go back in a cab again -a few drivers following such an incident have gone to become guards or other areas within the company.

 

[Right Away]

I had a fatality in my first year of driving. A front seat ticket to the show that nobody wants to watch. The situation seemed completely surreal. Last train of the day over the route. A figure looms out of the dark on a reverse curve. Brake to emergency, sounded the horn, waited for the dreaded thud and then hit the red button on the GSMR. The training kicks in and you go into autopilot for the required procedures. I can remember the exact details such as time and unit/vehicle number. The signaller I spoke to was excellent, as was the duty inspector on the BTP fatality hotline. The train was full and standing but not one person made an issue when informed of the situation by the guard. Luckily it was relatively near to a station so the emergency services arrived within a matter of minutes. The worst part for me was waiting around at my home depot for the on-call manager to arrive to see you in the early hours when you just wanted to get on home. My company insist on getting you a taxi home to prevent you having an incident getting yourself home with your mind elsewhere. The coroner was also excellent. They arranged a suitable time to take a telephone statement from me. I was gratefully not required to attend the inquest. The coroner asked me whether I would like to be kept informed of events. This may sound heartless but I said no as I wanted to draw a line under it and move on. I had done nothing wrong so that was the end of it for me. I accept that it is a risk of the occupation and as I have done nothing wrong I am fine with it. I went back to work the following day for a chat with my manager and for a competence manager to ride over the route with me to check that I was fit to resume driving. I just wanted to get back to normality and continue my job. Colleagues have experienced the same situation and every person will be affected in a different way. Some required considerable time booked off and additional support. I am extremely grateful that I did not. After getting back to normality, there is unfortunately the situation of the local media reporting the circumstances when the inquest is held, which is usually many months later. I could not help but come across the details a year later in several local newspapers. This gives the details of the person and makes the incident seem more personal whereas the person involved was just anonymous to me beforehand.

I have the utmost respect for the Mobile Operations Managers (RIOs), mobile technicians, BTP, ambulance service, cleaners and other staff who attend after such incidents. The damage many tons of moving metal can do to a human body can not be underestimated. Any initiative that can help to reduce such occurances gets a thumbs up from me.

 

[MG11]

Interesting stories. I think we are all a bit morbidly curious about things like this. Are drivers allowed to look away from the window as they approach the person or do they have to stay focussed out front for regulatory reasons?

 

[Dstock7080]

Are drivers allowed to look away from the window as they approach the person or do they have to stay focussed out front for regulatory reasons?

if you have applied the emergency brake/deadman, there isn’t much more a driver can do, looking away is probably the best option if it can be done.

 

[Mintona]

Interesting stories. I think we are all a bit morbidly curious about things like this. Are drivers allowed to look away from the window as they approach the person or do they have to stay focussed out front for regulatory reasons?

There’s no rules here. Do whatever you can to get the damn thing to slow down, or the person to move, and if that’s not working it’s probably best to look away.

I’ve not had one yet, but I drive along a high speed section of railway which seems to suffer more than most others, although it might just be because I drive it I hear about them more. I’m expecting it to happen one day, I just really hope it doesn’t.

 

[Minilad]

17th January 2012. The date will never leave me. 170107. Neither will that number. Caldicot crossing. The location also.
All the anecdotes, messroom chatter, stories on a message board, classroom lessons, rulebook readings. will never prepare you for it. Not even close. One minute driving along happy with your lot and the next it all comes crashing down. I had but a split second to react. So quick in fact I didn't even have time to sound the horn. And then the sound. The sound of that thud is what stays with me. I was lucky that I didn't really see anything other than a figure run and jump for a split second. But the sound remains to this day. Autopilot kicks in and you get through all the required functions. The calls you make. The notes you take. Passing on as much info as you can. And then, in my case, you sit there, waiting for the services to attend. Thoughts running though your head. Could I have done anything, was it suicide or an accident, why me. By a quirk of fate I had a councillor who had done work with ATW crews travelling on the train. He sat up from with me and talked to me while we waited. After what seemed like ages but was probably 10-15 mins the police arrived. A stunning blonde WPC as I remember!! told me that it was a confirmed suicide as a note had been found and the person was known to the local officers. You can't imagine the relief that went through me knowing it wasn't just a tragic level crossing accident. That might sound daft but the knowledge I hadn't just killed someone who didn't want to die was a massive relief. A DTM and relief driver arrived and after around 80 mins or so we left the scene. We arrived back at my home depot and then by taxi to my home. The DTM accompanied me all the way.
Then you sit at home and it just all sinks in. I couldn't sleep for around a week. The thoughts just keep coming. I was left alone for a few days to gather myself before someone from work contacted me and asked if I would go and fill out some paperwork. After a couple of days local police came to take a statement. It was around three weeks or so before I felt OK to return to work. First a cab ride. Then a drive over the route with a DTM. Then back to it. Half jobs for the first couple of days before finally returning to full jobs. A couple of weeks passed and a call from the coroner. Thankfully I didn't have to attend the inquest.
And now it's history. A day that will live with me forever. When anyone finds out my job one of the first things they will say is "have you ever had a jumper" it's morbid curiosity I guess and I don't have a problem talking about it now. There's nothing I could have done to stop what happened. Every now and then you will see someone on a platform, by a crossing, by the fence, and you think will they but you carry on. You hear of other fatalities and you think about the driver and what they are going through. If you know them you try to imagine how they ill be responding to it. But you can't know for sure.
It's an occupational hazard. Something you hope will never happen but you know one day it just might. One normal day at some point could well become "the day" And there's nothing you can do to stop it.
There is one thing above everything else that sticks in my mind about the day. While I was sitting in the cab alone with my thoughts waiting for people to arrive I was staring out of the windscreen and noticed one tiny splash of blood. That was it, that was the only visible thing to tell me what had just happened. One little bright red splash. And that is what has stayed with me more than anything else.

 

[BestWestern]

It is also often the case that the driver, rightly, gets a lot of sympathy and support after the incident, but little thought goes to anyone else. If station staff go sick afterwards they are often viewed as milking it, and much more so if a manager goes sick.

*Cough* some trains also have a bloke on the back called a Guard, although of course in today's political railway we prefer not to mention them. In many cases, the Guard will be 'first on the scene', and whilst it's the Driver's job to make the calls, it's the Guard's job to ensure that he's in a fit enough state to have done it, and then to follow that up with whatever initial 'chain of care' might be needed and can be provided before the cavalry arrive. We also get the job of informing the trainload of passengers, and looking after them for the couple of hours or more that they'll be sat going nowhere. This is in addition to keeping an eye on the Driver in case post-incident shock kicks in, and anything else that needs doing, potentially including getting your hands dirty if need be.

Not a good day for anyone involved. I would hazard a guess though that there have been very few fatalities where the Driver was happy he was DOO, it really is a time when the enormous benefit of a 'traincrew' speaks for itself.

 

[Panupreset]

It's good that a campaign has been setup to do more to raise awareness to try and reduce suicides on the railway.
More needs to be done to raise awareness of the dangers of trespassing. It was up 11% last year, over 8000 incidents and 38 deaths that were not suicide or suspected suicide. Under 25's are the most likely to tresspass on the railway apparently.
Some drivers are living with the knowledge they didn't run someone over who wanted to end it all. They ran over and killed someone who didn't set out that day to finish up dead.
From my perspective it seems a generation of people, maybe more, have grown up without becoming aware of how dangerous the railway is. The focus these days is on the danger of going 'online' not 'on the line'.
As a driver you see people do the most dangerous and stupid things, daily. The people who make a run for it as the doors are closing, leaping down the stairs on to the platform on a wet morning. Those who run after the train to wave off a friend or loved one. You may or may not notice. If you happen to be looking back then it's split second decision time. Sometimes it's in the hands of the gods. People who run across in front of you at a level crossing by a station, or one of my favourites- stand between the barriers and the rails to save like 5 seconds on their journey. You sound the horn, you get abuse shouted back at you 'hurry up you t*sser your f**cking late I want to get home!'.
I only had to be driving three months to have my first near miss. I was braking for a station concentrating on stopping and their this bloke came out of nowhere. Then one time I was driving empties and came through a busy station in a rain shower. Suddenly spot a bloke right on the platform edge on his phone stood under a huge golfing umbrella. Thankfully that one ended ok. Then a near miss at night with p-way staff not long after. After that I felt a bit of a sense of foreboding and it wasn't too much longer before it was my turn.

 

[mpthomson]

Attending counselling for the first time was like the Doctor's surgery. Going to a strangers house to talk to them about the worst day you have ever had in the job was again a really tough thing to do. I walked up and down the road past the counsellors house at least 3 times, nearly in tears, thinking 'I cannot do this'. Somehow I found a way.
Counselling did help for me, but it is not without its challenges. Sometimes you have had a good few days and then you have to go and talk about it all and you can end up feeling worse when you get home then when you left for the session.

I worked out during counselling I was probably in shock for about 3 weeks. A feeling of being in a bubble. Eventually it bursts and you realise this has happened to you, it's real and you have got to find a way to deal with the fact you have been the instrument of someone's death for the rest of your life. You have two choices as the guy in the article said. Get back in the chair and deal with having to drive trains every day past where it happened, or pack your job in.
But it isn't all bad. The support from family and friends makes you feel blessed. The best thing about the railway isn't Pendolino's, ERTMS, GSMR or WSP - it's the people. The support from your colleagues is just as important as the support at home. And most people find a way to get back in the chair.

Thank you for this, it's extremely insightful, as have been a number of the other personal experiences posted. I'm a mental health professional and have specialised in trauma related work for sometime, with the military but also civilians too, so I understand a lot of what you say in the second paragraph I've quoted. Do you mind if I ask you something (well two things) that's troubling me a little?

1. Are you told you have to have counselling or is it a personal choice?
2. At what point post incident is it offered, is it when you choose to take it up or immediately?

If you don't want to share on here or wish to pm me that's ok.

I'd just add that there are reasons why all the assessment questions are asked, even if some of them appear a bit strange. I always explain why I'm asking questions like that, so the reasons are understood.

 

[Panupreset]

Can only speak for myself regarding counselling and it was optional. But I had always been of the mind I would do it.
You may end up being given the phone number to call before you go home on the day it happens. If not certainly within a few days.

 

[axlecounter]

Thanks to all the drivers sharing their experiences.
Even if it's true that nothing can prepare you, reading about it and knowing what happened, how you felt, what you thought... I believe can be of some help to those of us who haven't (yet - let's hope not) gone through this.

 

[mpthomson]

Can only speak for myself regarding counselling and it was optional. But I had always been of the mind I would do it.
You may end up being given the phone number to call before you go home on the day it happens. If not certainly within a few days.

Thanks for that, I had an awful vision of it being compulsory, which wouldn't be appropriate at all.

 

[aylesbury]

Counselling is something that does help with all sorts of problems and is a very personal experience I have used it a couple of times and found it a great help.

Please note I am not a railwayman; it applies as a last resort sometimes.

 

[axlecounter]

Thanks for that, I had an awful vision of it being compulsory, which wouldn't be appropriate at all.

I see your point, but in this specific case, would it be/is it appropriate to let a driver go on without proper care after such a thing?

I know at least one fellow driver who choose not to speak to anyone after a woman killed herself under his train. Well, when you talk about that with him it is clear enough that something is still bothering him a lot.

I see why compulsory counselling is considered wrong, but would it be worst choice?

 

[Dougal2345]

It is also often the case that the driver, rightly, gets a lot of sympathy and support after the incident, but little thought goes to anyone else. If station staff go sick afterwards they are often viewed as milking it, and much more so if a manager goes sick.

I was a passenger, alone in the front coach of a 444 heading to Bournemouth a few years ago on a dark, windy night, when I heard a thud and something rattling under the train, and we came quickly to a halt.

I thought at first we'd hit a tree branch that had blown down, but after the guard spent a long time talking to the driver I suspected that wasn't it, and soon an announcement was made. Then I was left with my thoughts for the next couple of hours while the clearing up was done, although to be fair the guard asked me if I was okay a couple of times, as did one of the station people when I finally arrived in Bournemouth. I'm not exactly haunted by it nowadays, but it wasn't a nice experience at the time - but obviously a great deal worse for the guy at the controls.

 

[delt1c]

slightly different situation , In August 1978 I worked for London Transport on Route 9. it was 17.50 and we had just left the Westbound stop at Picadilly circus heading for Green Park. Without warning outside the Air France office a man stepped out from the nearside looking left not realising that there was a contraflow buslane and straight in front of our bus ( even remember the number RM 1989) , at that point everything went into slow motion . nothing anything anyone could do. i wont go into graphic details but i remember that incident like yesterday, it never leaves you.