RMT dispute on XC

[xc170]

It'll spread alot quicker if the rmt continue with actions over t's and c's like we are seeing on virgin and xc. Essentially, by attempting to keep guards safety critical, the rmt are attempting to keep the right to strike. With actions like these causing chaos at xmas it's quite easy to see why the dft want a downgrading in guards' status.

Yes, exactly this.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

That I also have to agree with you on. Not all guards are happy with the way this has been handled by the RMT and arent looking forward to the dispute or DOO spreading to more TOCs.

Tho I must stress this has nothng to do with retaining the right to strike. this is about the difference between a safety critical train manager on 35k who must be on board the train for it to run and revenue assistant on 22k with no guarantees they will be on board. The fact the southern trains can still run without the former guards being on board cannot be overlooked

 

[1e10]

Still a full timetable being displayed for Saturday in RTT and journey planners.

 

[DarloRich]

Are the RMT trying to do as much damage to passsneger numbers and the reputation of the railways as possible?

Got to the point now where I, along with many others, have lost all sympathy for these striking staff, if they don't want the job then there is plenty of unemployed people out there that would jump at the chance of stable, full time employment.

Peace out.

This, in spades.

Got to the point now where I, along with many others, have lost all sympathy for these striking staff, if they don't want the job then there is plenty of unemployed people out there that would jump at the chance of stable, full time

Totally agrree ! ( you might have added "well paid" as well)

Got to point out that: IT.ISN'T. A. STRIKE - but don't let that stop your silly, jealous Tory rants about how people should know their place and tug their forelock when someone like you trundles into view. This is a situation whereby people are working their contracted hours but are not accepting the offer of voluntary overtime. But you knew that........................

Yes, sundays are VOLUNTARY on XC as they are on TPE - the difference however with TPE if the shift cannot be covered by a rest day volunteer TPE guards are still required to work the booked shift. XC have no requirement to work at all.

Like I said it is NOT a strike. Staff are choosing to not work their booked sundays and are not contractually obliged to do so. both RMT and XC need to be upfront and honest as to what is really going on and stop calling it a strike. It is action short of a strike known as working to rule, which basically means working the required and booked hours and nothing more. If anything this will prove how much over-reliance on overtime and short-staffed the rail industry as a whole actually is.

So then a deal needs to be done on what the working week consists of and the numbers of staff needed to deliver that. Both sides have to give up something.

 

[Dai Corner]

Got to point out that: IT.ISN'T. A. STRIKE - but don't let that stop your silly, jealous Tory rants about how people should know their place and tug their forelock when someone like you trundles into view. This is a situation whereby people are working their contracted hours but are not accepting the offer of voluntary overtime. But you knew that........................



So then a deal needs to be done on what the working week consists of and the numbers of staff needed to deliver that. Both sides have to give up something.

It's not a strike in the legal sense but it has become custom and practice for XC to offer overtime on Sundays and staff to work it. One course XC could consider is to maintain a pool of people willing to work Sundays and occasionally on other days to cover for sickness, leave etc. and stop offering any overtime to its regular staff. How would RMT react to that?

 

[DarloRich]

It's not a strike in the legal sense but it has become custom and practice for XC to offer overtime on Sundays and staff to work it. One course XC could consider is to maintain a pool of people willing to work Sundays and occasionally on other days to cover for sickness, leave etc. and stop offering any overtime to its regular staff. How would RMT react to that?

Correction - it isnt a strike.

XC have relied on the goodwill of their staff to work voluntary overtime to deliver a service to their customers. This is not a given and can be withdrawn. Whilst I am sure the staff have been well recompensed for their time should they be expected to follow that assumption for ever more?

 

[palmersears]

Got to point out that: IT.ISN'T. A. STRIKE - but don't let that stop your silly, jealous Tory rants about how people should know their place and tug their forelock when someone like you trundles into view. This is a situation whereby people are working their contracted hours but are not accepting the offer of voluntary overtime. But you knew that........................

I completely agree with you, however would the general public not be more sympathetic to the situation if the RMT came out and explained the situation fully? They seem to be allowing XC to 'get the upper hand' by failing to clarify the actual situation at hand.

 

[DarloRich]

I completely agree with you, however would the general public not be more sympathetic to the situation if the RMT came out and explained the situation fully? They seem to be allowing XC to 'get the upper hand' by failing to clarify the actual situation at hand.

Agreed - see my post further up

 

[Dai Corner]

Correction - it isnt a strike.

XC have relied on the goodwill of their staff to work voluntary overtime to deliver a service to their customers. This is not a given and can be withdrawn. Whilst I am sure the staff have been well recompensed for their time should they be expected to follow that assumption for ever more?

No. But neither should they expect to be offered overtime forevermore.

 

[DarloRich]

No. But neither should they expect to be offered overtime forevermore.

I agree - As I said: sit down, talk like adults, compromise ( on both sides), carry on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stable? DOO is being introduced on other operators and will spread.

How on earth is the guards role stable these days?

Pretty stable for the existing staff, as the whole network won't shift tomorrow, and I simply can't see any of the InterCity franchises not wanting a second member of staff on all trains. We might find recruitment stops, of course, and some might end up as OBS-a-likes, but I doubt there will be many if any compulsory redundancies.

(note: GWR doesn't count; the Bristol bit is more of a poshed up London commuter/regional franchise like Chiltern or LM these days)

 

[Bletchleyite]

No. But neither should they expect to be offered overtime forevermore.

Indeed. In my view Sunday overtime should stop and all new staff should have Sunday in the working week. (It will initially mean some new staff ALWAYS working Sunday, but if you don't like the job, don't take it...)

 

[vicbury]

Indeed. In my view Sunday overtime should stop and all new staff should have Sunday in the working week. (It will initially mean some new staff ALWAYS working Sunday, but if you don't like the job, don't take it...)

What sort of insanity has created a situation in a seven-day industry whereby most staff are not contracted to work one of those seven days?

I understand it's a similar situation with GWR. As far as I, as a passenger, am concerned, either:

• All staff should be put onto seven-day contracts; or
  
• A load of part-timers should be recruited to work Sundays.

It is simply unacceptable that customer's lives are messed around with nearly every Sunday because there aren't enough employees! If buses can have enough staff to function seven days per week, there is no reason why the railways should not either.

 

[DarloRich]

What sort of insanity has created a situation in a seven-day industry whereby most staff are not contracted to work one of those seven days?

I understand it's a similar situation with GWR. As far as I, as a passenger, am concerned, either:

• All staff should be put onto seven-day contracts; or
  
• A load of part-timers should be recruited to work Sundays.

It is simply unacceptable that customer's lives are messed around with nearly every Sunday because there aren't enough employees! If buses can have enough staff to function seven days per week, there is no reason why the railways should not either.

sigh. I am not sure a load of part timers is going to be workable. Don't worry. You will be happy once all the guards are sacked eh

Of course everyone can be put on a 7 day contract but that will cost money and means doing a deal with the commie unions. You will have to buy out the existing t&c's and come to a deal about new ones as well as rates of pay, leave entitlements, shift lengths etc. You might have to recruit more people. It might well cost you as a passenger more money. Still happy?

 

[al78]

What sort of insanity has created a situation in a seven-day industry whereby most staff are not contracted to work one of those seven days?

I understand it's a similar situation with GWR. As far as I, as a passenger, am concerned, either:

• All staff should be put onto seven-day contracts; or
  
• A load of part-timers should be recruited to work Sundays.

It is simply unacceptable that customer's lives are messed around with nearly every Sunday because there aren't enough employees! If buses can have enough staff to function seven days per week, there is no reason why the railways should not either.

It is probably because it is cheaper to pay staff overtime than employ an adequate number of staff in the first place. Just the usual snip snip costcutting, dump the consequences onto others.

 

[IanXC]

It is probably because it is cheaper to pay staff overtime than employ an adequate number of staff in the first place. Just the usual snip snip costcutting, dump the consequences onto others.

It's more accurately cost that hasn't been incurred in the first place. Go back far enough and Sunday local services in particular were very rare, and express frequencies nothing like they are now. For BR with large traincrew depots relying on a small number to work overtime each Sunday was probably a good bet, and a sensible option, rather than looking at new terms and/or grades. Over the intervening period division of these depots into multiple TOCs and the increasing expectation of Sunday services was always going to come home to roost! Whether it is a particular franchisee's 'fault' is difficult to say as for their typically short tenure it's unlikely to be in their interests to deal with the issue, I'd describe the situation as having almost naturally arisen through a perfect storm of factors coming together.

 

[vicbury]

sigh. I am not sure a load of part timers is going to be workable. Don't worry. You will be happy once all the guards are sacked eh

Of course everyone can be put on a 7 day contract but that will cost money and means doing a deal with the commie unions. You will have to buy out the existing t&c's and come to a deal about new ones as well as rates of pay, leave entitlements, shift lengths etc. You might have to recruit more people. It might well cost you as a passenger more money. Still happy?

I'm not sure where I implied I would be happy that anyone would be made redundant, but ok.

Sorry if I am being simplistic, but if you work in a seven-day industry you should expect to work seven days. The world has changed and the workforce needs to adapt.

 

[Skipness]

Still a full timetable being displayed for Saturday in RTT and journey planners.

I am travelling from Cornwall to the East Midlands on Saturday and if I hadn't been aware of the disruption would have ended up stranded.
After research on the XC website I am going to travel on GWR to Taunton, then a RRB to Bristol and finally a XC train. (Hopefully!!)

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Additional strikes called for 23rd and 27th December.

 

[Qwerty133]

Additional strikes called for 23rd and 27th December.

What even is the point unless its to give staff a nice long period of time off for Xmas...
Support seems to be lower this time (at least on the Senior Conductor side as there seems to be a lot more services running between Leicester and Birmingham) and passengers will just get more and more annoyed with the EMT and lose any sympathy they may have had.

 

[DarloRich]

Sorry if I am being simplistic, but if you work in a seven-day industry you should expect to work seven days. The world has changed and the workforce needs to adapt.

I find it odd you don't think the employer plays any part in agreeing staffing levels or terms and conditions. Why is it the employees who must change and not the employer? Why not both of them?

You also dodge that fact that your 7 day contact might cost you more as a passenger. Would you be happy with that?

 

[londonmidland]

Additional strikes called for 23rd and 27th December.

Is there any more information on this as I am travelling with Cross Country on the 23rd?

 

[Spankthemonkey]

What even is the point unless its to give staff a nice long period of time off for Xmas...
Support seems to be lower this time (at least on the Senior Conductor side as there seems to be a lot more services running between Leicester and Birmingham) and passengers will just get more and more annoyed with the EMT and lose any sympathy they may have had.

No-one i speak to at xc actually seems to know what the point is at all. Seems the things they were originally ballotted on have been resolved? Anyone shed any light on this?

 

[vicbury]

I find it odd you don't think the employer plays any part in agreeing staffing levels or terms and conditions. Why is it the employees who must change and not the employer? Why not both of them?

You also dodge that fact that your 7 day contact might cost you more as a passenger. Would you be happy with that?

My suggestion of hiring part-time employees would be a change in the typical ways of the employer, no?

If you let me know the average earnings of a cross country employee, I'll take a view on whether I believe they should earn more to be on a 7-day contract.

 

[DarloRich]

My suggestion of hiring part-time employees would be a change in the typical ways of the employer, no?

If you let me know the average earnings of a cross country employee, I'll take a view on whether I believe they should earn more to be on a 7-day contract.

and there is the crux of your argument: jealousy.

 

[vicbury]

and there is the crux of your argument: jealousy.

Jealous of what? You have no idea how much I earn!

 

[DarloRich]

Jealous of what? You have no idea how much I earn!

you seem most worried about other peoples earnings. I bet the fact "mere" guards get paid "a fortune" for pressing the odd button really grinds your gears

If you want to change the T&C's of people you have to do a deal. That means you have to make it worth their while agreeing to the change or you will simply foster real resentment and real industrial action. Perhaps you are able to simply instruct the plebs in your industry to accept your generous and exciting opportunity to do more work in return for less pay. Despite what many posters here desire the railway doesn't work like that.

My suggestion of hiring part-time employees would be a change in the typical ways of the employer, no?

Your suggestion of part time employees might not go down well with the sainted TOC. Do you you think they want to spend a fortune on training people (and them maintaining competency) to return less than fully productive staff? I doubt it.

Finally I notice you are still ducking the point about cost. How much extra are you prepared to pay on your ticket to fund the 7 day roster? I suspect you wont get it in for the same price as your staff costs now.

 

[vicbury]

you seem most worried about other peoples earnings. I bet the fact "mere" guards get paid "a fortune" for pressing the odd button really grinds your gears

If you want to change the T&C's of people you have to do a deal. That means you have to make it worth their while agreeing to the change or you will simply foster real resentment and real industrial action. Perhaps you are able to simply instruct the plebs in your industry to accept your generous and exciting opportunity to do more work in return for less pay. Despite what many posters here desire the railway doesn't work like that.



Your suggestion of part time employees might not go down well with the sainted TOC. Do you you think they want to spend a fortune on training people (and them maintaining competency) to return less than fully productive staff? I doubt it.

Finally I notice you are still ducking the point about cost. How much extra are you prepared to pay on your ticket to fund the 7 day roster? I suspect you wont get it in for the same price as your staff costs now.

1. I have no idea what guards earn. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on what others earn.
   
2. Nobody can expect their working conditions to never change. That is unreasonable.
3. I have no authority to instruct anyone in my workplace. I am a pleb.
4. I have made no suggestion of cross country staff working more hours. I want them to work more days, to the same weekly hours.
5. I have made no suggestion that cross country staff should take a pay cut.
6. Cross Country should base their accounts on having enough staff to cover every single Sunday already so why would fares go up?

 

[DarloRich]

1. I have no idea what guards earn. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on what others earn.
   
2. Nobody can expect their working conditions to never change. That is unreasonable.
3. I have no authority to instruct anyone in my workplace. I am a pleb.
4. I have made no suggestion of cross country staff working more hours. I want them to work more days, to the same weekly hours.
5. I have made no suggestion that cross country staff should take a pay cut.
6. Cross Country should base their accounts on having enough staff to cover every single Sunday already so why would fares go up?

using your numbering:

1. It is clear from the tone of your posting that you, like many posters, feel guards earn far too much. I don't know how much a guard on XC earns and not do i care. I earn enougth to live in a decent standard. That does me.
2. Nobody does nor is anyone suggesting that
3. OK. Perhaps you feel that as a pleb ( I assume treated badly) everyone should be treated equally as badly
4. You want them to work weekends and "out of hours" at weekends for no extra pay - Would you agree to that? It doesn't seem fare to me.
5. You want them to work weekends and "out of hours" at weekends for no extra pay - Would you agree to that? It doesn't seem fare to me.
6. LOL! Really? Do you think they do that now? Is that not shown to be false by this current situation

 

[D1009]

After research on the XC website I am going to travel on GWR to Taunton, then a RRB to Bristol and finally a XC train. (Hopefully!!)

The XC website map shows a limited service between Exeter and Bristol on Saturday, which on previous Sunday strikes has been hourly and continues north. Taunton to Bristol is blocked on Sunday only.

Additional strikes called for 23rd and 27th December.

Do you have a source for this information?