Basingstoke -> Crewe direct?

[Adam Williams]

It appears possible to travel directly from Crewe to Basingstoke twice a day, e.g.

• http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C10883/2018/01/03/advanced
• http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C10921/2018/01/03/advanced

I was surprised to see these services, since all travel from CRE -> BSK I'd done up until now involved a change at BHM.

Is the reverse of this possible without a change at any point in the day? I can't seem to find any service, but it seems odd that there's no matching journey in the other direction.

 

[crehld]

These are the Cross Country services via Crewe. I guess (can't be sure) they're there to ensure drivers' route knowledge is retained in case of the need to divert that way.

There is one northbound Cross Country service via Crewe, but that's in the morning and starts at Birmingham : http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C11468/2018/01/02

 

[Class 170101]

It also allows an improved service on the Stoke route for local commuters to / from Manchester.

 

[Ianno87]

It also allows an improved service on the Stoke route for local commuters to / from Manchester.

And Crewe/Wilmslow, as the diverted XC gives an extra train in the hours it operates this way (freeing up a path via Macclesfield for a local service)

 

[SeanM1997]

By 2024, East West link will open and will mean rerouting Manchester to Bournemouth service to call at Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Wilmslow, Crewe, Milton Keynes Central, Oxford, Reading, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst and Bournemouth. This will release a path for a new hourly service between Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham International via Macclesfield, and for a GWR service to operate between Birmingham and London Paddington via Oxford to maintain the same frequency between Oxford/Leamington and Birmingham

 

[Class 170101]

By 2024, East West link will open and will mean rerouting Manchester to Bournemouth service to call at Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Wilmslow, Crewe, Milton Keynes Central, Oxford, Reading, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst and Bournemouth. This will release a path for a new hourly service between Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham International via Macclesfield, and for a GWR service to operate between Birmingham and London Paddington via Oxford to maintain the same frequency between Oxford/Leamington and Birmingham

I would add Stafford and Nuneaton to your calling pattern on the East West Link service. You may also have to run via Northampton if a path cannot be found via the Weedon route.

As for GWR running to Birmingham forget it. More value in combining the service to operate Manchester to Birmingham via Macclesfield then onwards via Coventry, (or via Solihul if no path available), Oxford, Reading and perhaps towards the south coast - either Bournemouth or Portsmouth.

 

[SeanM1997]

I would add Stafford and Nuneaton to your calling pattern on the East West Link service. You may also have to run via Northampton if a path cannot be found via the Weedon route.

As for GWR running to Birmingham forget it. More value in combining the service to operate Manchester to Birmingham via Macclesfield then onwards via Coventry, (or via Solihul if no path available), Oxford, Reading and perhaps towards the south coast - either Bournemouth or Portsmouth.

Calling at Stafford is probably unnecessary as they will still be served by Manchester-Birmingham International and Manchester-Exeter St Davids services. Nuneaton would be a good route. The paths should open up at Weedon, especially with HS2 taking traffic from 2026. With the GWR services, its in the Great Western consultation to split the franchise in two. As part of this document, and in the HS2 assumptions document, it states creating a London Paddington to Birmingham services to serve stations between Reading and Birmingham which will lose services for the reroute of the Manchester to Bournemouth service

 

[The Planner]

None of that is happening. The XC via East West is aspirational, not confirmed in the slightest.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

By 2024, East West link will open and will mean rerouting Manchester to Bournemouth service to call at Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Wilmslow, Crewe, Milton Keynes Central, Oxford, Reading, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst and Bournemouth. This will release a path for a new hourly service between Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham International via Macclesfield, and for a GWR service to operate between Birmingham and London Paddington via Oxford to maintain the same frequency between Oxford/Leamington and Birmingham

That dates back to "electric spine" days and wishful thinking by the E-W promoters.
Among other things, NR won't want non-tilting trains on that section of the WCML.
HS2 will also arrive at much the same time, and will transform north-south travel.
All the franchises involved will be re-let before then, who knows what XC services will be running.

 

[thenorthern]

In the evening I know the 1727 Manchester Piccadilly runs via Crewe rather than Stoke-on-Trent to free up a path for the 17:10 Deansgate to Stoke-on-Trent service. There may be some others that run through Crewe for the same reason.

Two CrossCountry services per day also run through Alsager.

 

[BigVern]

When HS2 starts there will be no paths for Cross Country on the Crewe to Manchester line, because all 3 London to Manchester hourly trains will go that way.
That will persist until the completion of the Phase 2b HS2 route into Manchester (if and when that happens).
I'm still awaiting Network Rail's plan for fitting in the remaining services on this line when HS2 starts - 1 Cardiff to Manchester fast and 2 Crewe to Manchester stoppers, as well as freight.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

None of that is happening. The XC via East West is aspirational, not confirmed in the slightest.

A thankful voice of reality is heard.

 

[The Planner]

When HS2 starts there will be no paths for Cross Country on the Crewe to Manchester line, because all 3 London to Manchester hourly trains will go that way.
That will persist until the completion of the Phase 2b HS2 route into Manchester (if and when that happens).
I'm still awaiting Network Rail's plan for fitting in the remaining services on this line when HS2 starts - 1 Cardiff to Manchester fast and 2 Crewe to Manchester stoppers, as well as freight.

People are looking at that now.

 

[adrock1976]

Did the "Wessex Scot" ever ran via Preston, or via York?

In the late 1980s/first half of the 1990s, I remember seeing it at Birmingham New Street, but cannot remember which way it went north of there.

 

[E6007]

Did the "Wessex Scot" ever ran via Preston, or via York?

In the late 1980s/first half of the 1990s, I remember seeing it at Birmingham New Street, but cannot remember which way it went north of there.

Preston

 

[Andyjs247]

Did the "Wessex Scot" ever ran via Preston, or via York?

In the late 1980s/first half of the 1990s, I remember seeing it at Birmingham New Street, but cannot remember which way it went north of there.

Yes via Preston. Not via York.

 

[Leo1961]

Did the "Wessex Scot" ever ran via Preston, or via York?

In the late 1980s/first half of the 1990s, I remember seeing it at Birmingham New Street, but cannot remember which way it went north of there.

In the 1986 timetable it called at the following stations after New Street;

Sandwell & Dudley
Wolverhampton
Stafford
Crewe
Warrington Bank Quay
Wigan North Western
Preston
Lancaster
Carlisle
Motherwell
Glasgow Central
Edinburgh

Hope that helps

 

[4-SUB 4732]

By 2024, East West link will open and will mean rerouting Manchester to Bournemouth service to call at Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Wilmslow, Crewe, Milton Keynes Central, Oxford, Reading, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst and Bournemouth. This will release a path for a new hourly service between Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham International via Macclesfield, and for a GWR service to operate between Birmingham and London Paddington via Oxford to maintain the same frequency between Oxford/Leamington and Birmingham

Really? It would be lovely to see an Intercity service run across the EWRL but I don't find this likely - especially not the GWR bit!

 

[swt_passenger]

Really? It would be lovely to see an Intercity service run across the EWRL but I don't find this likely - especially not the GWR bit!

Welcome to the forums.
The possibility of a cross country style service over EWR definitely is a future option. It is firmly suggested in a number of extant route studies. One example of a future service option is a third cross country service through Oxford, from Man Picc to Basingstoke via the Trent Valley and Bletchley. It would be unwise to write such a service off as impossible.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Welcome to the forums.
The possibility of a cross country style service over EWR definitely is a future option. It is firmly suggested in a number of extant route studies. One example of a future service option is a third cross country service through Oxford, from Man Picc to Basingstoke via the Trent Valley and Bletchley. It would be unwise to write such a service off as impossible.

It was just the 'surety' of the post that made me so remarkably amazed. I couldn't believe it.

 

[route:oxford]

None of that is happening. The XC via East West is aspirational, not confirmed in the slightest.

Well, yes & no...

I really don't care what the trains do, this particular rail user will most certainly be re-routing Manchester - Milton Keynes - Oxford.

There's not a chance I'll be sitting on an XC service for 2h45m-3h05m via Birmingham New Street, when I can zip down the WCML in 1h30m-1h40m then hop onto a swift local service to Oxford Parkway.

 

[duffield]

It was just the 'surety' of the post that made me so remarkably amazed. I couldn't believe it.

Yes, and the way plans change due to government whim (see MML electrification etc.), economic circumstances (including Brexit effects, good or bad) etc. any assertions about how EWrail will be used beyond its obvious core are indeed pure speculation. Of course there's nothing wrong with speculation about what services might be desirable or likely (not necessarily the same thing!) but it's misleading to post any authoritative sounding statement about what services 'will run'.

Edit: Just realised this is veering way off topic for this thread..

 

[A0wen]

Well, yes & no...

I really don't care what the trains do, this particular rail user will most certainly be re-routing Manchester - Milton Keynes - Oxford.

There's not a chance I'll be sitting on an XC service for 2h45m-3h05m via Birmingham New Street, when I can zip down the WCML in 1h30m-1h40m then hop onto a swift local service to Oxford Parkway.

It'll be as wide as it's long.

You'll be looking at 1h 40 to MKC (current time). 10 min wait for train to Bletchley. 5 min to Bletchley. 10 min connection at Bletchley- you're at 1h 55m. 30 min to Oxford.

So 2h35, that's assuming 10 min connections (currently NR minimum interchange time) - unlikely to be less. Plus you'd have the risk factor of missing a connection, compared to having a direct service with a seat end to end.

 

[DarloRich]

By 2024, East West link will open and will mean rerouting Manchester to Bournemouth service to call at Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Wilmslow, Crewe, Milton Keynes Central, Oxford, Reading, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst and Bournemouth. This will release a path for a new hourly service between Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham International via Macclesfield, and for a GWR service to operate between Birmingham and London Paddington via Oxford to maintain the same frequency between Oxford/Leamington and Birmingham

no it wont. That idea is an aspiration rather than a confirmed fact.

 

[DarloRich]

It'll be as wide as it's long.

You'll be looking at 1h 40 to MKC (current time). 10 min wait for train to Bletchley. 5 min to Bletchley. 10 min connection at Bletchley- you're at 1h 55m. 30 min to Oxford.

So 2h35, that's assuming 10 min connections (currently NR minimum interchange time) - unlikely to be less. Plus you'd have the risk factor of missing a connection, compared to having a direct service with a seat end to end.

Will there not be direct MK - Oxford services?

 

[A0wen]

Will there not be direct MK - Oxford services?

I could only see MK - Aylesbury / Wycombe mentioned on EWRs website and Oxford - Bedford - so who knows?

 

[DarloRich]

I could only see MK - Aylesbury / Wycombe mentioned on EWRs website and Oxford - Bedford - so who knows?

you are right! brain fade

 

[The Ham]

It'll be as wide as it's long.

You'll be looking at 1h 40 to MKC (current time). 10 min wait for train to Bletchley. 5 min to Bletchley. 10 min connection at Bletchley- you're at 1h 55m. 30 min to Oxford.

So 2h35, that's assuming 10 min connections (currently NR minimum interchange time) - unlikely to be less. Plus you'd have the risk factor of missing a connection, compared to having a direct service with a seat end to end.

There's a number of factors as to which route people will take. Timing will be one (including when the trains run in any hour), other factors could include cost and seat availability.

However, based on the advice timings you can see why a direct service (which cuts out the change times and possibly a faster journey time between MK and Oxford) could be something that does happen in due course.

Going further, if EW was electrified then it could be a use for some of the spare 390's after HS2. However, even if not electrified then the 221's could have their tilt re-enabled to benefit from the higher line speeds.

The advice doesn't mean that direct services will happen, just that I can see why people would think that it would be a good idea.

 

[JamesRowden]

I could only see MK - Aylesbury / Wycombe mentioned on EWRs website and Oxford - Bedford - so who knows?

I found this in the western route section of the site:

Milton Keynes to Oxford (continuing to Reading): Due to open in 2022

Milton Keynes – Bletchley – Winslow – Bicester Village – Oxford Parkway – Oxford – Reading

1 train per hour in each direction
Approximate journey time: Milton Keynes to Oxford 41 minutes