Amsterdam Eurostar

[AlexNL]

These three trains have been spotted in the Netherlands throughout the past 2 years: 4003/4004, 4013/4014 and 4031/4032. So there's at least three of them.

From an operational point of view it would make little sense to have only a subclass of trains which can run into the Netherlands, as it makes diagramming and maintenance much complexer than it would have to be. From a technical point of view there's no need for it either: Alstom have been making units with integrated Belgian and Dutch signalling for at least two decades, if you're going to build trains for Belgium you might as well make them suitable for the Netherlands as well.

 

[bspahh]

I don't think anyone is going to do a day return London - Amsterdam. You'd have too little time to actually be able to do something useful while there. People are likely to spend at least a night in a hotel, and then the departure time becomes somewhat less of an issue.

For a leisure trip, then the precise time might not matter. When I'm travelling for business, then it will be for specific times.

The departure time is definitely an issue. I will probably need to work until 5pm. I then want to get home by bedtime. With a departure from Amsterdam at 6 or 7pm, then that would be fine. The 17.17 Thalys train is already too early. Another earlier train isn't going to help me.

 

[AlexNL]

While you might consider 16:57 to be too early, I'm sure plenty of other people find it a very convenient time as it allows them to reach connecting services to places outside the greater London area. Eurostar have to find a balance between the needs of their clientele.

It's important to remember that this timetable isn't set in stone for the upcoming decades. It's a launch timetable for a new service, so decisions have been based on market research. If Eurostar receive feedback from their actual customers about wanting a later service, they might decide to adjust the departure time of the evening service to better respond to those desires.

If you're staying in Amsterdam for work and you want to take the evening train home, why not start at 8 and leave the office around 4?

 

[bspahh]

While you might consider 16:57 to be too early, I'm sure plenty of other people find it a very convenient time as it allows them to reach connecting services to places outside the greater London area. Eurostar have to find a balance between the needs of their clientele.

Arriving in London before 8pm certainly gives plenty of time for onward connections. However, if you have already spent 4 hours on a train, how many people are going to spend more hours on a connecting train, when there are plenty of flights to Amsterdam from regional airports?

If you're staying in Amsterdam for work and you want to take the evening train home, why not start at 8 and leave the office around 4?

That might work if it was just me. However, I would be teaching a training course for a room of customers, so the day's schedule would be arranged around what works for them, and not for me.

I much prefer trains to flying, even when they are slower and more expensive. However, the schedule has to fit

 

[edwin_m]

I've suggested further back that these trains are a lot to do with providing extra trains at Brussels to beef up the two-hourly service at the busiest times, and because the sets that do this today are unlikely to be utilised much for the rest of the day it doesn't cost too much extra to send them to Amsterdam and back. So the choice of departure time from Amsterdam may be more influenced by the Brussels market.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

On a different but related note: If you log into Eurostar.com and tell it you are Dutch, you still get access to the "Any Dutch Station" fares. However, my Dutch isn't good enough to work out if these are not valid on Thalys. I suspect the answer is they are not, however they are cheap enough still to be interesting.

Interesting: the Any Dutch Station fares are only valid on the Benelux NS International Intercity trains, not Thalys. They are also available one-way, whereas the cheaper fares from Brux normally require return ticket purchase. You can, though, get tickets that include Thalys on the NS Internationaal website or on b-europe.com: both of these offer print at home capability.

 

[GingerSte]

I agree with the points about moving the evening service back by an hour. It would be better for the business travellers, especially given the 30 minute check-in. It would also make it easier to squeeze in the lunchtime service I mentioned in post #131, albeit with slightly different timings.

A 17:50 service would be good for business travellers, but not for tourists. After checking out at lunchtime (at the latest), travellers may be able to store their bags at the hotel, but it is preferable not to have to. They (or at least I) would want to be on their way. Plus, getting back into London (and then travelling on) would be quite late. I expect that the largest market would be business, but the leisure market shouldn't be sacrificed. Maybe the solution would be to run the lunchtime (tourist) service on certain days only (say Thursday to Monday, for long weekends either side).

I would also add, however, that it might not be that easy to move the evening service back an hour. I would bet that Amsterdam Centraal is a very busy station, and locking off a platform for 45 minutes in their busiest hour is not going to win many friends. I imagine that the Dutch railway authorities would not want to do this until the service is bedded in, and that 45 minutes brought down to something more manageable.

I've suggested further back that these trains are a lot to do with providing extra trains at Brussels to beef up the two-hourly service at the busiest times, and because the sets that do this today are unlikely to be utilised much for the rest of the day it doesn't cost too much extra to send them to Amsterdam and back. So the choice of departure time from Amsterdam may be more influenced by the Brussels market.

The 5pm service from Amsterdam wouldn't reach Brussels until about 7ish. Would this still be one of the busier times at Brussels? I would have thought that this was more about getting more bums on seats on the later evening services out of Brussels. It could be a bit of both, however: justifying an extra train where the numbers wouldn't stack up for Brussels alone.

 

[radamfi]

Presumably demand is expected to be lopsided due to the security nonsense in Brussels on the way back, so some people might get Eurostar to Amsterdam and come back by plane, making the return journey time slightly moot. If you want to come back after 5 there is a Thalys train at 1717 with a connection to London, which is little different to getting Eurostar in both journey time and convenience because you have to get off the train and get back on it again regardless.

 

[Groningen]

From Twitter:

Source: Trainmanager Jo (working for Eurostar)

 

[tricky_dicky]

I don't believe there will be a requirement to de-train in Brussels on the return journey

 

[AlexNL]

I don't believe there will be a requirement to de-train in Brussels on the return journey

There won't be, as you've already gone through the necessary checks at St. Pancras.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the previous comment related to returning from Amsterdam.

 

[Goldfish62]

Presumably demand is expected to be lopsided due to the security nonsense in Brussels on the way back, so some people might get Eurostar to Amsterdam and come back by plane, making the return journey time slightly moot. If you want to come back after 5 there is a Thalys train at 1717 with a connection to London, which is little different to getting Eurostar in both journey time and convenience because you have to get off the train and get back on it again regardless.

You won't have to get off at Brussels. Thats why security facilities are being built at Amsterdam etc.

 

[Groningen]

So 1 half for Brussel and 1 half for London. What if demand is great from the Netherlands that the London part is sold out quickly. Eurostar is for London and not for Brussel from the Netherlands. Surely it is not possible to travel from Brussel to Amsterdam?!

 

[edwin_m]

So 1 half for Brussel and 1 half for London. What if demand is great from the Netherlands that the London part is sold out quickly. Eurostar is for London and not for Brussel from the Netherlands. Surely it is not possible to travel from Brussel to Amsterdam?!

If the early services get lots of bookings from Amsterdam to London then I guess they would look at filling the whole train with those passengers and perhaps running a separate train from Brussels. This might also result in a change of timing for the Amsterdam evening departure as discussed above. Or indeed they might look at running two trains with the same half-and-half configuration to give people a better choice of departure times. But what they are doing now looks very much like "dipping a toe in the water" - don't spend too much, see how well the market reacts and use that to decide whether it's worth doing more.

I guess Eurostar will now start offering journeys between Brussels and Amsterdam. Will these be interavailable with other operators or competing?

 

[2392]

Yes indeed looking at the proposed timings so far. It does look like a "toe in the water" job, but, why not at first. There's always the option of increasing the service in future. Having sailed overnight Hull-Rotterdam once and several times flown Newcastle-Schipol. I'd like at least once do it by rail from Tyneside. Admittedly flying to Schipol from Newcastle is the best option. As I can leave home at 8-9 a.m. for the 11:30a.m. flight and be in Amsterdam by 3 p.m. Dutch time.

As a P.S. Don't you just love the computer spell checker, as mine has suggested I change Schipol [to be honest my spelling could be off] to Chipolata.

Edit: Yes I'd slightly misspelt Schipol. As it should be Schiphol....... Which this go round Spellchecker suggests Scholarship or School !

 

[bspahh]

The European Medicines Agency is moving its 900 staff from London to Amsterdam by March 2019, which should help loadings for a bit.

 

[nlogax]

Have just asked Eurostar what the situation with post-April fares is likely to be, and whether we could book on Eurostar / Thalys fares now with a view to exchanging for direct service tickets once those fares and schedules are made available. I'll update this thread with any response.

 

[paddington]

A 17:50 service would be good for business travellers, but not for tourists. After checking out at lunchtime (at the latest), travellers may be able to store their bags at the hotel, but it is preferable not to have to. They (or at least I) would want to be on their way. Plus, getting back into London (and then travelling on) would be quite late.

Tourists from London or surroundings would surely prefer to spend the full day in Amsterdam. Getting home at 2200 seems reasonable to me.

 

[GingerSte]

Tourists from London or surroundings would surely prefer to spend the full day in Amsterdam. Getting home at 2200 seems reasonable to me.

It probably would for a lot of people. I'm one of those who likes to get the journey out of the way (but not at 7 in the morning either). Plus I would be getting a train to Birmingham, so it would be 2300 or later (depending on train times) for me.

Having said that, a lunchtime train out of Amsterdam would have me leaving London in the peak, so there's that to consider.

 

[TheSeeker]

The European Medicines Agency is moving its 900 staff from London to Amsterdam by March 2019, which should help loadings for a bit.

I moved my flat from Reading to Brussels via Eurostar as I was on expenses and given a monthly ticket home. Often quite difficult to explain two large suitcases full of books, kitchenware, reading lamps etc.

 

[Wirewiper]

I don't believe there will be a requirement to de-train in Brussels on the return journey

There won't.

The trains will be divided into two sections. Passengers for London will go through security screening at Amsterdam or Rotterdam and occupy one section of the train. The other section of the train will be for people travelling to Brussels only who will not undergo screening.

At Brussels-Midi the Brussels passengers will alight. Security staff with sniffer dogs will go through that section of the train, then passengers joining in Brussels (who will also have been security screened) will be allowed to board. Passengers from Amsterdam and Rotterdam remain on the train whilst this takes place.

 

[edwin_m]

So it may be a longer stop than normal while the dogs do their sniffing, but far quicker and less hassle than the hokey-cokey at Lille with the arrivals from beyond Paris.

 

[Gadget88]

New article today

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rain-travel-London-Amsterdam-months-away.html

Mentions it eventually going to Utrecht first I’ve heard of this. I assume in future years they will maybe go for an airport stop, stop at Antwerp and Utrecht.

How much further north is Utrecht from Amsterdam?

 

[Quakkerillo]

New article today

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rain-travel-London-Amsterdam-months-away.html

Mentions it eventually going to Utrecht first I’ve heard of this. I assume in future years they will maybe go for an airport stop, stop at Antwerp and Utrecht.

How much further north is Utrecht from Amsterdam?

25mi/40km South-East. The route it would take is as if you were going to advertise Virgin services from London Euston to stop in Crewe, Manchester Piccadilly, and then Liverpool Lime Street. Nice to have a direct connection, but the journey time on Eurostar would be longer than normal train to Rotterdam and then change there for Eurostar. I'd say it sounds pointless.

 

[oldtrvller]

I have just looked at the times of trains ex Brussels to London in late June and discovered that the 1056 has been moved to a departure of 1008 and that the next train departs at 1252. This means that the connection from Cologne ( 0742 to 0935) is no longer going to be feasible for all but business premier customers if the 30 minutes check in rule is enforced. Would this time change have anything to do with the Amsterdam to London trains?
I regularly used this connection - 0935 arrival in Brussels and 1056 departure to London and now will have to change journey times.

 

[AlexNL]

How much further north is Utrecht from Amsterdam?

It isn't. Utrecht is to the south east of Amsterdam, pretty much like Peterborough and Cambridge.

I don't see an Utrecht "extension" happen as it makes little sense: anyone wanting to go to Utrecht is better off changing at Rotterdam as this is 40 minutes quicker than staying on board for a trip via Amsterdam. Furthermore, Eurostar trains are to be serviced at the purpose-built Watergraafsmeer TMD which isn't near Utrecht. While Utrecht has some facilities (Cartesiusweg TMD and the Opstelterrein Zuid yard) they aren't designed for 400 metre long consists.

 

[Gadget88]

It isn't. Utrecht is to the south east of Amsterdam, pretty much like Peterborough and Cambridge.

I don't see an Utrecht "extension" happen as it makes little sense: anyone wanting to go to Utrecht is better off changing at Rotterdam as this is 40 minutes quicker than staying on board for a trip via Amsterdam. Furthermore, Eurostar trains are to be serviced at the purpose-built Watergraafsmeer TMD which isn't near Utrecht. While Utrecht has some facilities (Cartesiusweg TMD and the Opstelterrein Zuid yard) they aren't designed for 400 metre long consists.

So are the most likely extensions Schiphol and Antwerp? Eurostar always seem to advertise Antwerp I wonder if upgrades will happen at these stations to accommodate Eurostars? Will they compromise time by stopping here adding longer journey times or would they see it as a potential for more trourists wanting to go there? Perhaps in the future they could have the odd train that stops at these stations but most go direct past Rotterdam.

Also out of interest if Eurostar went to Germany could stations like Cologne accommodate them is the platforms long enough? Is it almost as logical for the Eurostar to go to Germany as it is for the Amsterdam route? Or will DB beat Eurostar to this and launch there own service?

 

[Bletchleyite]

DB do tend to go for long platforms - but they are also an "open station" country and long have been, so securing an area will be a big undertaking. I'm not convinced there will be any extension as such.

 

[GingerSte]

Schiphol and Antwerp are between Brussels and Amsterdam (at least on the existing Thalys service).

Having been to Cologne, the platforms look long enough for Eurostar services. A single Thalys set (approx. 200m) takes up about half the platform length. The platforms are split into A-G (or A-H), and the service to Paris is usually on 8D-G, so 8A-C (the end closest to the Hohenzollern Bridge) is clear.

As far as I know at the moment, Eurostar is lukewarm on the idea (concentrating on Amsterdam instead) and DB isn't even that.