Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[BRX]

Presumably a disadvantage of a very small TOC like Caledonian Sleeper is circumstances like this with little or no backup, if a member staff can’t make a booked shift for whatever reason. Larger operators economies of scale have probably proved a lot more beneficial to the railways throughout most of their existence

Absolutely.

 

[TimboM]

Presumably a disadvantage of a very small TOC like Caledonian Sleeper is circumstances like this with little or no backup, if a member staff can’t make a booked shift for whatever reason. Larger operators economies of scale have probably proved a lot more beneficial to the railways throughout most of their existence

This assumes that a) a bigger operator (and the obvious comparison is Scotrail) these days would have a 'spare' guard available, within their (working) hours, ready to go at short notice etc. in somewhere as remote as Fort William and b) that if Scotrail did have such a "spare" guard available tonight there wasn't the option of Serco hiring them in last minute (bearing in mind Scotrail guards worked the Fort Bill portion until fairly recently, so presumably still have route knowledge). Whether that could/would happen in practice though I'm not sure.

I agree in the past there would've been more resilience - but I think that's more due to how all TOCs and the railways in general are run with much tighter staffing levels than in the past. Whoever they belong to, there aren't plenty of spare locos, drivers, guards etc. sitting around "just in case" these days - particularly in somewhere like Fort William.

 

[BRX]

Interesting that the guard seems to have had to come from Inverness though - does that mean that CS have a "pool" of staff who might be rostered to work on either of the Inverness/FW services? In place of a previous Scotrail scenario where FW-based staff might be rostered to work on a number of WHL services including the sleeper.

Because I can see that the latter scenario would at least result in a higher likelihood of the guard living close to FW, and not being delayed on a 2-hour commute to work, the length of the commute being the result of the economies of a small operation trying to keep its staff in-house.

 

[Norther Monkey]

I've been a regular sleeper traveller for work since August. So here's my tuppence worth:

I didn't use the sleeper all that much before Serco so can't possibly comment on pre- and post- Serco price comparisons. But having used the sleeper between London / Crewe and Aberdeen eight times in the last two months (which I'd consider low season), comments of a lack of business aren't reflected in my actual experience. I haven't obviously done a head count in each berth, but each time the train seems reasonably full, every time I've gone standard I've always had to share, and on two occasions over the last two months I've been unable to book standard a few days before travel because it's been full and I've had to fork out for 1st (the boss is paying).

And besides who goes on holiday to Aberdeen?? The Aberdeen portion seems to cater for a very different market compared to the Fort William and Inverness portions. The vast majority seem to be travelling for work (as I do) which means employers are probably paying (as mine does). I can't speak for other employers but mine just pays, provided I can demonstrate I got the cheapest ticket (with a bed) - I just enclose a screen shot with the claim. Indeed I last week persuaded the boss to buy me a ten trip flexi pass.

I usually end up paying £90-£110 for standard and £140-£160 for first. Yes, some of the prices would put me off if I was paying for myself and travelling for no meaningful purpose, but I'm not. And I suspect that's the case with most people using the Aberdeen portion.

Every time I have checked flights the times haven't worked out, which means travelling the evening before and staying overnight in a travelodge or similar, the total cost of which is always more expensive.

As I said, Serco should certainly be better informed than me about the prices that work, and you're certainly better placed than me to comment on loadings as I no longer use the service.

My opinions may also lack a little objectivity, given that my circumstances mean that rising prices have forced me off a service that I enjoyed using (and this is not discretionary travel).

 

[ScottDarg]

92028 worked 1S26 last night and seems to have done well.

86101 came in and took it and the stock to Polmadie under 5S26.

90049 worked 1S25 and then ran to Carstairs to work 1B26.

 

[Scotrail84]

Interesting that the guard seems to have had to come from Inverness though - does that mean that CS have a "pool" of staff who might be rostered to work on either of the Inverness/FW services? In place of a previous Scotrail scenario where FW-based staff might be rostered to work on a number of WHL services including the sleeper.

Because I can see that the latter scenario would at least result in a higher likelihood of the guard living close to FW, and not being delayed on a 2-hour commute to work, the length of the commute being the result of the economies of a small operation trying to keep its staff in-house.

The FTW is worked by Dalmuir guards. Edinburgh guards cover the FTW if theres sickness/holidays or delays time barring the Dalmuir men, there are no sleeper guards based anywhere else. Only at Euston, Edinburgh and Dalmuir.

 

[pitdiver]

If the Fort William sleeper didn't run what would have happened to anybody who was booked on it?

 

[92002]

There were 2 guards sent by road for the Fort William portion Sunday night. The first found the A82 closed by accidents in the heavy snow. Finally arrived at 2130 by which time the train had been cancelled due to overnight engineering possessions.

Another guard was sent by train to Dalwhinnie. Arriving there the road to Fort William had been closed by snow. They carried on to Inverness and got road transport back to Edinburgh.

Nobody could ask for any more commitment from a TOC.

Perhaps unfortunate for passengers booked who probably could not be road transported to catch the Inverness portion due to the snow. That is life in this particular the world.

 

[BRX]

The FTW is worked by Dalmuir guards.

So do they go up in the morning, stay in FTW for the day, then work it back in the evening? Or do they effectively commute to FTW and do out-and-back from there each night?

I might be wrong but under scotrail I seem to remember that in the evening at least they'd swap over with the crew of a northbound service at Rannoch where the trains cross.

 

[Zerothebrake!]

They travel up to Fort Bill on the 12.21 ex Queen St.

 

[ScottDarg]

North end at the moment:

1M11: 92033 (86101 on ECS)
5C11: 90049 (probably doing 1C11?)
1M16: 67018 & 92018
1B01: 73971
1B16: 73966

73968 at Craigentinny(?)
73967, 969 and 970 at Brush.

 

[TimboM]

North end at the moment:

1M11: 92033 (86101 on ECS)
5C11: 90049 (probably doing 1C11?)
1M16: 67018 & 92018
1B01: 73971
1B16: 73966

73968 at Craigentinny
73967, 969 and 970 at Brush.

South end:
1S25: 92010
1S26: 92043
5S96: 87002

92028/90048 at Willesden TMD

 

[pitdiver]

Am I right in assuming that as the Fort William portion of the Cally Sleeper is at the country end of the platform at Euston. It's the first portion to leave Waverly at 04** in the morning or have I got it wrong.

 

[Scotrail84]

Am I right in assuming that as the Fort William portion of the Cally Sleeper is at the country end of the platform at Euston. It's the first portion to leave Waverly at 04** in the morning or have I got it wrong.

It leads out of Euston but is at the rear at Edinburgh as it is last to leave at 04:50. Inverness departs 04:15, and Aberdeen departs at 04:43

 

[pitdiver]

It leads out of Euston but is at the rear at Edinburgh as it is last to leave at 04:50. Inverness departs 04:15, and Aberdeen departs at 04:43[/QUOTE

Thank you

 

[Chrism20]

Thank you, so we will have the pleasure of all the shunting. I should know this but how comes it ends up the other way round, or is that the way it ends up after all the shunting?

It heads into Waverley from the west and then goes back out towards the west so the front of the train effectively becomes the back of it when it leaves Waverley.

 

[ScottDarg]

73969 is finally on its way home today:

0Z69 11:25 Loughborough Brush - Doncaster: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R02833/2018/01/26/advanced

0S20 15:28 Doncaster - Craigentinny: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R02832/2018/01/26/advanced

 

[Scotrail84]

73969 is finally on its way home today:

0Z69 11:25 Loughborough Brush - Doncaster: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R02833/2018/01/26/advanced

0S20 15:28 Doncaster - Craigentinny: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R02832/2018/01/26/advanced

Under its own power or a drag?

 

[TimboM]

Am I right in assuming that as the Fort William portion of the Cally Sleeper is at the country end of the platform at Euston. It's the first portion to leave Waverly at 04** in the morning or have I got it wrong.

Further to other replies (and assuming normal night...)

92 leads 16-coach 1S25 into Waverley from West (facing East)

67 (or in due course 2x 73/9s) attach to "rear" (West end) and take the 8-coach Inverness portion away (heading west out of EDB - back the same way 1S25 came in)
...meanwhile 92 is detached

The Aberdeen 73/9 then attaches to the west end of the Aberdeen/Fort Bill section and takes away the seats/lounge and (usually) 4 sleeper cars (again heading west out of EDB)

...meanwhile the FTW 73/9 shunts the "day" coaches (seats/lounge) onto what will become the rear (East end) of the FTW portion (i.e. the end where the 92 was)
Once the Aberdeen portion has gone, the FTW loco then runs round the FTW portion (which is now 2x sleeper cars + lounge + seats) and attaches to the west end of it to again head out west to FTW.

 

[TimboM]

Under its own power or a drag?

Under its own power - and on 0S20 it is doing the dragging... (of 66736)

Did a test run last weekend and then moved 47727 from Washwood Heath to Barrow Hill on Monday. I believe it's expected to go pretty much straight back into service.

 

[ScottDarg]

Under its own power or a drag?

It's doing the dragging it seems, still caught of it passing the York railcam: http://www.railcam.uk/stills/galler...cqMWE1NDUxMzRkNzJhMDI1ZDUzNDUyN2FhMzU0YjEwMGM

 

[TimboM]

It's doing the dragging it seems, still caught of it passing the York railcam: http://www.railcam.uk/stills/galler...cqMWE1NDUxMzRkNzJhMDI1ZDUzNDUyN2FhMzU0YjEwMGM

There's a better one from the other York cam...

http://www.railcam.uk/stills/galler...qKmUzYzM0MjE4MGMxMmIxNmNkNDZiODZhZTA1Mzc4Y2Vk

(If people cannot see that as it's subscribers only, Railcam have put this on their Twitter and Facebook pages as part of 'Pick of the Day'.)

 

[alexf380]

Hi folks, I'm trying to get some tickets for the Sleeper into Glasgow Queen Street on the night of April 1st, but I can't seem to find any. The sleeper website states that there are no fares available for the date selected. Can anyone help me with this please?

Cheers.

 

[pitdiver]

Further to other replies (and assuming normal night...)

92 leads 16-coach 1S25 into Waverley from West (facing East)

67 (or in due course 2x 73/9s) attach to "rear" (West end) and take the 8-coach Inverness portion away (heading west out of EDB - back the same way 1S25 came in)
...meanwhile 92 is detached

The Aberdeen 73/9 then attaches to the west end of the Aberdeen/Fort Bill section and takes away the seats/lounge and (usually) 4 sleeper cars (again heading west out of EDB)

...meanwhile the FTW 73/9 shunts the "day" coaches (seats/lounge) onto what will become the rear (East end) of the FTW portion (i.e. the end where the 92 was)
Once the Aberdeen portion has gone, the FTW loco then runs round the FTW portion (which is now 2x sleeper cars + lounge + seats) and attaches to the west end of it to again head out west to FTW.

Thanks for that, all clear now. So if I'm awake I can watch all this happening. Hopefully will be asleep as I hope to photograph the scenery on the way to Fort Bill in the early so at least I can get a few hours kip. Any tips regarding travelling on the " Deerstalker"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks for that, all clear now. So if I'm awake I can watch all this happening. Hopefully will be asleep as I hope to photograph the scenery on the way to Fort Bill in the early so at least I can get a few hours kip. Any tips regarding travelling on the " Deerstalker"?

Other than that the scenery is utterly stunning, not really

 

[Scotrail84]

Hi folks, I'm trying to get some tickets for the Sleeper into Glasgow Queen Street on the night of April 1st, but I can't seem to find any. The sleeper website states that there are no fares available for the date selected. Can anyone help me with this please?

Cheers.

Either the bookings have been closed or the entire train is sold out due to it being short formed.

 

[87015]

Either the bookings have been closed or the entire train is sold out due to it being short formed.

I expect its full - but there will likely be some cancellations a few days before when the choice of which loco is going to work it becomes clear. I don't know how they get processed and if they end up re-released?

 

[Mag_seven]

Thanks for that, all clear now. So if I'm awake I can watch all this happening. Hopefully will be asleep as I hope to photograph the scenery on the way to Fort Bill in the early so at least I can get a few hours kip. Any tips regarding travelling on the " Deerstalker"?

I travelled on it a couple of weeks ago. I witnessed all the shunting at Edinburgh, fell asleep again as we sped through the Central Belt then awoke at Ardlui by which time it was starting to get light. Then it was just bliss as we travelled up to Crianlarich, up to Rannoch Moor travelling over the "Horse Shoe Curve" (best viewed from the left hand side facing direction of travel) then down to Fort Bill passing Loch Treig and the gorge at Monessie. Clear skies and snow on the ground. Definitely the best train in the UK to be travelling on at that time on a weekday morning.

 

[TimboM]

Hi folks, I'm trying to get some tickets for the Sleeper into Glasgow Queen Street on the night of April 1st, but I can't seem to find any. The sleeper website states that there are no fares available for the date selected. Can anyone help me with this please?
Cheers.

Either the bookings have been closed or the entire train is sold out due to it being short formed.

I expect its full - but there will likely be some cancellations a few days before when the choice of which loco is going to work it becomes clear. I don't know how they get processed and if they end up re-released?

I recall seeing elsewhere that it's sold out (currently)

It's going to be one of the ACLG locos - I know there's a few folk who'll be after a particular one, but I don't expect many will cancel depending on whether it's 87002 or 86101 (or 86401) doing it. Will still be a pretty special (unique?) trip with heritage traction on the front.

 

[Mag_seven]

I expect its full - but there will likely be some cancellations a few days before when the choice of which loco is going to work it becomes clear. I don't know how they get processed and if they end up re-released?

You mean if something with two front windows gets swapped for something with three front windows?