Trespass incident at Manchester Piccadilly (11/03)

[61653 HTAFC]

Jesus Mary and Joseph.

It really worries me that people would even consider 'keeping the juice on', or 'letting trains come and go', you may say 'Not a serious post', but you still said it and had it at the forefront of your mind...

Do people not remember Tiananmen Square, 1989?

100% this.

Can't believe how easily some of the long-standing members of these fora fall into the usual reactionary nonsense.

It wasn't "right" that these protests happened in the way that they did, but all those suggesting things like "just run them over" or even that the protesters be dealt with to the full extent of the law (rather than going through due process) should perhaps read up on Erdogan's Turkey... based on some of the things posted here, you might quite like it... that is, until it was YOU on the receiving end.

 

[cactustwirly]

Maybe the protestors already knew this but Victoria is shut today so the UK's 2nd city is temporarily cut off from the rail network (I'm not counting Metrolink in this)!!

I think you'll find that Birmingham is the UK's second city.

 

[AlterEgo]

100% this.

Can't believe how easily some of the long-standing members of these fora fall into the usual reactionary nonsense.

It wasn't "right" that these protests happened in the way that they did, but all those suggesting things like "just run them over" or even that the protesters be dealt with to the full extent of the law (rather than going through due process) should perhaps read up on Erdogan's Turkey... based on some of the things posted here, you might quite like it... that is, until it was YOU on the receiving end.

Nail on head.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Jesus Mary and Joseph.

It really worries me that people would even consider 'keeping the juice on', or 'letting trains come and go', you may say 'Not a serious post', but you still said it and had it at the forefront of your mind...

Do people not remember Tiananmen Square, 1989?

Very well said
It's not the right way to go about things, for sure, and there's no question that climbing on the track puts lives at risk, but the fact is that Erdogan and his government's policies is causing death and suffering for other ordinary human beings, and targeting a major civic instruction is a useful way to attempt to make the government sit up and take notice to end this death and suffering. The likelihood of the government taking action is alas probably slim, but that doesn't mean that no-one should protest and bring the death and suffering to greater public and government attention at the very least. If the roles were reversed I would hope that similar protests would happen in Turkey

Besides, if the signaller were to clear signals, or the electrical control room operator were to re-energise the overhead lines in the knowledge that there were trespassers on the line they would in all probability lose their livelihoods, and, if any of them were injured or worse, very possibly their liberty as well. Duty of care is safety, and safety trumps inconvenience on the railway. Always.

 

[trainophile]

Same protest happening on the steps at Liverpool Lime Street a couple of hours ago. No visible disruption to rail operations, except the door onto the concourse next to the taxi rank was shuttered off and a few uniformed Network Rail officials keeping watch on things.

 

[Bayum]

I've not said anything like that.

I think they should protest in a manner that is safe and doesn't adversely affect other citizens going about their daily business.

You've hardly painted your opinions on whether other posters are right or not...

 

[Dentonian]

I think you'll find that Birmingham is the UK's second city.

Ah! The old one liner; Ask a Mancunian which is Britain's second city. His/her answer: Not for me to say, let London and Birmingham argue amongst themselves.

 

[Iskra]

You've hardly painted your opinions on whether other posters are right or not...

That's not the same as wishing death on people.

And, you've misinterpreted what I originally said. I suggested the police should treat them in the same way as they do others who organise disruptive protests. You know; equality before the law...

 

[AlterEgo]

I've not said anything like that.

I think they should protest in a manner that is safe and doesn't adversely affect other citizens going about their daily business.

So basically a protest which probably has absolutely no impact.

This is a very British viewpoint and one which is ignorant of the fact that quite often, change only comes about because people have put themselves in situations which were both dangerous and disruptive.

 

[Jonny]

I used to use Manchester Piccadilly a lot and I would be pretty peed off if I was unable to fulfil a business or study opportunity as a result (it would be primarily a matter of honour to meet my commitments).

Also, what did the protesters even hope to achieve? All I can see is drawing Britain as a country and many personnel associated with Britain (who happen, like me, to be male and relatively young) into something that, as a country, is none of our business.

 

[221129]

Hopefully we will see a load of them up in front of a court but I won't hold my breath. Waste of space the lot of them, I also hope social services will be looking at bringing charges against those who felt it was a good idea to involve their children.

 

[221129]

I used to use Manchester Piccadilly a lot and I would be pretty peed off if I was unable to fulfil a business or study opportunity as a result (it would be primarily a matter of honour to meet my commitments).

Also, what did the protesters even hope to achieve? All I can see is drawing Britain as a country and many personnel associated with Britain (who happen, like me, to be male and relatively young) into something that, as a country, is none of our business.

Just wanted to cause a bit of aggro using something irrelevant as an excuse I imagine.

 

[Jonny]

So basically a protest which probably has absolutely no impact.

This is a very British viewpoint and one which is ignorant of the fact that quite often, change only comes about because people have put themselves in situations which were both dangerous and disruptive.

Maybe, but the activities that the protesters would have us be involved in if they got their way would be way more dangerous and disruptive. That's for the General Discussion section though...

 

[B&I]

100% this.

Can't believe how easily some of the long-standing members of these fora fall into the usual reactionary nonsense.

It wasn't "right" that these protests happened in the way that they did, but all those suggesting things like "just run them over" or even that the protesters be dealt with to the full extent of the law (rather than going through due process) should perhaps read up on Erdogan's Turkey... based on some of the things posted here, you might quite like it... that is, until it was YOU on the receiving end.

I think some people posting on here would fit in quite well to Erdogan's Turkey. Anyone who thinks this has nothing to do with Britain should educate themselves on the weapons we sell to a corrupt and brutal regime. And they're probably right about the ISIS bit.

All that said, clearly the people concerned don't yet know Britain very well. You could burn the whole of Manchester down in a protest, and it would have less political impact than standing on a London commuter's toe. Occupying a London terminus would have been a much better idea.

 

[greyman42]

Several dozen “protestors” have marched through Manchester Piccadilly concourse onto the tracks and all services are suspended. A large number of police units in attendance.

A pity its not third rail at Piccadilly.

 

[Iskra]

So basically a protest which probably has absolutely no impact.

This is a very British viewpoint and one which is ignorant of the fact that quite often, change only comes about because people have put themselves in situations which were both dangerous and disruptive.

Do you think the Turkish Govt is going to change its policies towards the Kurds based on delays to trains in Manchester? Why does the ordinary law-abiding (note, disrupting the railway is not law-abiding) British citizen deserve to have their rights to do what they want withdrawn due to another governments actions? They could protest in a way that only infringes on the representatives of the Turkish state in the UK, that'd probably attract more sympathy.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Pretty sure there have been no arrests, the crowd dispersed from the station peacefully. Not really BTP policy to arrest in these situations, I believe, and if large crowd (maybe 300?) invade a station set on blocking the tracks very little that the normal BTP patrols normally available at MCP can do about it.

 

[Mike99]

I hate to get back to the trains ................but I noticed on Tracksy that 1L13 departed Manchester Piccadilly 49L en-route to Sheffield and eventually Norwich having been cancelled between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Oxford Road, departing from platform 14, I've not seen a 'Southbound' service leave from Platform 14 before, I'm sure there are plenty of examples or is this 'fairly' unusual?

 

[AlterEgo]

Do you think the Turkish Govt is going to change its policies towards the Kurds based on delays to trains in Manchester? Why does the ordinary law-abiding (note, disrupting the railway is not law-abiding) British citizen deserve to have their rights to do what they want withdrawn due to another governments actions? They could protest in a way that only infringes on the representatives of the Turkish state in the UK, that'd probably attract more sympathy.

I don’t know, do you think internment in Northern Ireland was ended because people wrote stern letters?

Do you think women got the right to vote just through suffragette picket lines and writing to their MPs?

Do you have any idea what a nasty Islamofascist regime there is in Turkey?

Their principal aim was to let the public know that Erdogan is a gangster and that Turkey actively supports Islamic State as a tool in oppressing indigenous Kurds. They’ve done that rather well, I think. They’re on the BBC app homepage. Job done.

I don’t think you appreciate that a lot of significant change does come about because people put themselves in a position where they either cause disruption or put themselves in personal danger.

If your main concern is the “right of people to get home on time”, be totally grateful. As (I assume) a British citizen living in a tolerant and decent society, you probably don’t appreciate the motives of people like the protestors in Manchester today. Why do you think Kurds are living in Britain?

 

[221129]

Pretty sure there have been no arrests, the crowd dispersed from the station peacefully. Not really BTP policy to arrest in these situations, I believe, and if large crowd (maybe 300?) invade a station set on blocking the tracks very little that the normal BTP patrols normally available at MCP can do about it.

Not sure it's down to BTP policy or just their normal incompetence.

 

[Crossover]

Pretty sure there have been no arrests, the crowd dispersed from the station peacefully. Not really BTP policy to arrest in these situations, I believe, and if large crowd (maybe 300?) invade a station set on blocking the tracks very little that the normal BTP patrols normally available at MCP can do about it.

With so many people, dispersal is probably the only real option to try and restore order - it is safety in numbers really

As for the other posters - if I were to do something unlawful such as trespassing as this lot have done, I’d expect to be dealt with accordingly. Why should these be any different?

 

[greyman42]

Pretty sure there have been no arrests, the crowd dispersed from the station peacefully. Not really BTP policy to arrest in these situations, I believe, and if large crowd (maybe 300?) invade a station set on blocking the tracks very little that the normal BTP patrols normally available at MCP can do about it.

If a large group of football/rugby supporters had acted this way, would the Police of treated it the same?

 

[Dentonian]

I used to use Manchester Piccadilly a lot and I would be pretty peed off if I was unable to fulfil a business or study opportunity as a result (it would be primarily a matter of honour to meet my commitments).

Also, what did the protesters even hope to achieve? All I can see is drawing Britain as a country and many personnel associated with Britain (who happen, like me, to be male and relatively young) into something that, as a country, is none of our business.

Hopefully we will see a load of them up in front of a court but I won't hold my breath. Waste of space the lot of them, I also hope social services will be looking at bringing charges against those who felt it was a good idea to involve their children. {QUOTE}

I don't know if you two haven't bothered to see what they are protesting about, or just don't give a damn, so I will spell it out:

They are protesting about the Turkish Government (allegedly) financing Daesh. You may not have been around last Summer, but Daesh are the medieval mutants behind the cold blooded murder of 22 (mostly young) people a mile down the road at the Manchester Arena as well as probably millions more innocents around the world. In other words THEY ARE ON OUR SIDE - unless you two are terrorists...........

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think some people posting on here would fit in quite well to Erdogan's Turkey. Anyone who thinks this has nothing to do with Britain should educate themselves on the weapons we sell to a corrupt and brutal regime. And they're probably right about the ISIS bit.

All that said, clearly the people concerned don't yet know Britain very well. You could burn the whole of Manchester down in a protest, and it would have less political impact than standing on a London commuter's toe. Occupying a London terminus would have been a much better idea.

I think they would, apart from the fact that Erdogan has removed some of the safeguards protecting Turkey's secular constitution... and Islam generally isn't popular on the British right!

Whether or not Erdogan is directly funding Daesh, he has assisted them in kind by targeting the Kurdish separatists who had been assisting Western forces by attacking Daesh.

In @Iskra's defence over his "loony left" comment (), the largest Kurdish separatist paramilitary group (the PKK) actually does lean to the left... but then we all know the saying about stopped clocks!

These protesters have broken the law by trespassing on the railway, and I'm not going to try to argue that they be let off scott-free... but to suggest they be prosecuted to the full extent of the law is ridiculous. Remember the 2011 riots? Some of the sentences handed down to those involved were artificially high due to the media attention and we ended up with a "Trial by Tabloid" situation. I do hope that we don't do the same over these protests which were (from what I can gather) non-violent, albeit disruptive.

 

[221129]

Hopefully we will see a load of them up in front of a court but I won't hold my breath. Waste of space the lot of them, I also hope social services will be looking at bringing charges against those who felt it was a good idea to involve their children. {QUOTE}

I don't know if you two haven't bothered to see what they are protesting about, or just don't give a damn, so I will spell it out:

They are protesting about the Turkish Government (allegedly) financing Daesh. You may not have been around last Summer, but Daesh are the medieval mutants behind the cold blooded murder of 22 (mostly young) people a mile down the road at the Manchester Arena as well as probably millions more innocents around the world. In other words THEY ARE ON OUR SIDE - unless you two are terrorists...........

Note the word allegedly there... they are a bunch of morons with nothing better to do.

 

[Iskra]

I don’t know, do you think internment in Northern Ireland was ended because people wrote stern letters?

Do you think women got the right to vote just through suffragette picket lines and writing to their MPs?

Do you have any idea what a nasty Islamofascist regime there is in Turkey?

Their principal aim was to let the public know that Erdogan is a gangster and that Turkey actively supports Islamic State as a tool in oppressing indigenous Kurds. They’ve done that rather well, I think. They’re on the BBC app homepage. Job done.

I don’t think you appreciate that a lot of significant change does come about because people put themselves in a position where they either cause disruption or put themselves in personal danger.

If your main concern is the “right of people to get home on time”, be totally grateful. As (I assume) a British citizen living in a tolerant and decent society, you probably don’t appreciate the motives of people like the protestors in Manchester today. Why do you think Kurds are living in Britain?

Before my time, but was it protesters disrupting public transport in Bolivia that ended internment in Ireland by any chance?

It was women's contribution to the war effort that won them the vote, not terrorism. Otherwise, why did all men also receive the vote at the same time without such a campaign?

I've not got a problem with the concept of direct action ...the clue is in my username.

I know all about the Turkish regime and I'm not a fan.

I don't support tyranny of the minority. I'm not ashamed to say that.

Stop making assumptions about my viewpoints, you have no idea.

 

[Dentonian]

I think they would, apart from the fact that Erdogan has removed some of the safeguards protecting Turkey's secular constitution... and Islam generally isn't popular on the British right!

Whether or not Erdogan is directly funding Daesh, he has assisted them in kind by targeting the Kurdish separatists who had been assisting Western forces by attacking Daesh.

In @Iskra's defence over his "loony left" comment (), the largest Kurdish separatist paramilitary group (the PKK) actually does lean to the left... but then we all know the saying about stopped clocks!

These protesters have broken the law by trespassing on the railway, and I'm not going to try to argue that they be let off scott-free... but to suggest they be prosecuted to the full extent of the law is ridiculous. Remember the 2011 riots? Some of the sentences handed down to those involved were artificially high due to the media attention and we ended up with a "Trial by Tabloid" situation. I do hope that we don't do the same over these protests which were (from what I can gather) non-violent, albeit disruptive.

The 2011 riots were totally different as those rioters smashed up numerous buildings in Manchester city centre and Pendleton and involved targetted intimidation of shoppers and various workers. They also led to security reviews which (for instance) including blocking out natural light for office workers to avoid being lacerated by smashed panes of glass. It was also widely believed that the riots in Pendleton were orchestrated by local Crime gangs, and those in Manchester city centre by "activists" based in Cheshire - as in many miles south/SW of the GM border.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Also, what did the protesters even hope to achieve? All I can see is drawing Britain as a country and many personnel associated with Britain (who happen, like me, to be male and relatively young) into something that, as a country, is none of our business.

I'm afraid it is our business, it's the battle against ISIS and the Syrian regime (where we are involved if not on the ground).
In case you had forgotten, the Kurds are on "our side", receiving arms and other support from us, and are now under attack from Syrian and Turkish forces.
Manchester also has Kurdish (and Turkish) communities.
The issue for the protesters is that the western media are ignoring the Turkish action on the Kurds because they are focussed on the situation in Eastern Ghouta.
That said, I can't think why they chose the operational side of Piccadilly station for their action.

 

[DanTrain]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-43363588

Manchester Piccadilly railway station has reopened after about 100 protesters stormed the railway lines.

Campaigners blocked the tracks and some tried to climb overhead line equipment, National Rail said.

Crowds of people thought to be opposed to Turkey's war with Syrian Kurds held banners which read "stop Turkey from helping ISIS terrorists".

The station was closed for about three hours and caused disruption and long delays for some travellers.

Supt Mark Cleland, of British Transport Police (BTP), said: "While we appreciate and respect the right to peaceful protest, when this compromises the safety of the public and the protesters themselves, any offenders will attract the full investigative resources of BTP.

"Those involved in this afternoon's incident will be subject to intense investigation with a view to arrest and prosecution....

Well, it looks like they got what they want. It's like a hopeless circle, they are essentially perfectly safe on the tracks as they know Network Rail have to turn off the power and stop everything, and so therefore it's a brilliant way to get into the national press. Let's hope the courts aren't so keen on the idea (there must be something more than trespass that can be used here, surely).

 

[Dentonian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-43363588

Well, it looks like they got what they want. It's like a hopeless circle, they are essentially perfectly safe on the tracks as they know Network Rail have to turn off the power and stop everything, and so therefore it's a brilliant way to get into the national press. Let's hope the courts aren't so keen on the idea (there must be something more than trespass that can be used here, surely).

I wonder if your hostility towards these protesters will change if Sheffield is the next Daesh target.