Train company branding: "Trains" vs "Railways"

[DarloRich]

Guilty as charged.

Shall we just use station?

 

[Millisle]

It is something to do with the loss of centrality to the public mind of the railway that 'train station' developed. Younger people perhaps believe that 'train' somehow supplanted 'railway' in the phrase in everyday conversation, but that is a simplification. Forty or fifty years ago when I was young, in ordinary spoken contexts 'station' on its own was used and understood to mean 'railway station', which would generally have sounded formal, if not pretentious in conversation. It was all the other stations, bus, fire, etc., that required qualifiers. It was the loss of pre-eminence of the railway in popular experience that brought about 'train station'. Many younger people, feeling 'station' insufficiently specific, did not know that 'railway station' already existed as it was not a conversational commonplace, and besides it makes some logical sense. After all one goes to the station to catch a train, not a railway. And 'train station' is one syllable shorter, which swings it for those in a hurry.

 

[Minilad]

Shall we just use station?

In most towns/cities with one station I reckon if you asked someone, or jumped in a taxi and asked for, "the station" they would probably take you to the train/railway station anyway

 

[Western Lord]

It is something to do with the loss of centrality to the public mind of the railway that 'train station' developed. Younger people perhaps believe that 'train' somehow supplanted 'railway' in the phrase in everyday conversation, but that is a simplification. Forty or fifty years ago when I was young, in ordinary spoken contexts 'station' on its own was used and understood to mean 'railway station', which would generally have sounded formal, if not pretentious in conversation. It was all the other stations, bus, fire, etc., that required qualifiers. It was the loss of pre-eminence of the railway in popular experience that brought about 'train station'. Many younger people, feeling 'station' insufficiently specific, did not know that 'railway station' already existed as it was not a conversational commonplace, and besides it makes some logical sense. After all one goes to the station to catch a train, not a railway. And 'train station' is one syllable shorter, which swings it for those in a hurry.

Even today, I would have thought that most people would understand "the station" to mean the railway station, which is so called, of course, because it is a station on a railway. In the past one might have had various reasons for visiting a railway station which did not involve catching a train.

 

[6Gman]

It doesn't matter.

Reaches for the Like button!



Bus companies used to be called "XXX Buses/ Motor Traction/ Road Car/ Motors/ Motor Services/ Motor Omnibuses" etc etc etc

People still managed to catch them!

 

[6Gman]

we always have a discussion in the office as to whether you go to the train station or railway station?

Generally an age-related thing. Older people use "railway", younger people use "train".

Personally I abhor "train station" as an American interloper but I'm old.

 

[6Gman]

Even today, I would have thought that most people would understand "the station" to mean the railway station, which is so called, of course, because it is a station on a railway. In the past one might have had various reasons for visiting a railway station which did not involve catching a train.

Somewhere I read a learned article on the distinction and it made precisely this point - that the station is broader than just a place to catch trains. Thus, for example, we speak of seaports not ship ports and of air ports not aeroplane or plane ports.

 

[Millisle]

Even today, I would have thought that most people would understand "the station" to mean the railway station, which is so called, of course, because it is a station on a railway. In the past one might have had various reasons for visiting a railway station which did not involve catching a train.

I entirely agree about the comprehensibility to this day of 'the station'. It is what I invariably use. I believe most of the young people I used to teach would understand what I meant, but they themselves equally invariably used 'train station.' Everyone has a vocabulary s/he recognises, but does not use personally. I have now just about got over 'train station' and learned to live with it.

 

[JordyWM]

I was a bit surprised when West Midlands franchise went with Railway for both brands, but then again I am used to my local franchise not using the term at all, being before LM and Central Trains.

It feels the term Railway was a bit more old fashioned term, but it certainly has a more quality feel than the word Trains when used in a brand, and like already said, more of a nostalgia feel.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I was a bit surprised when West Midlands franchise went with Railway for both brands, but then again I am used to my local franchise not using the term at all, being before LM and Central Trains.

It feels the term Railway was a bit more old fashioned term, but it certainly has a more quality feel than the word Trains when used in a brand, and like already said, more of a nostalgia feel.

This kind of works when FirstGroup rebranded FGW to GWR trying to sweep away its negative reputation by bringing in a traditional nostaglic image. I have to admit the GWR branding style looks beautiful and really good quality even the service can sometimes be dismal.

I really like GWR's racing green colour and use of brushed metal effect and leather on seating and interiors giving this a premium feel on some trains - obviously not on Pacers!

Like others I had hopes when the SW franchise was passed to FirstGroup, that the GWR branding style could sort of be replicated for SWR however with a maroon/dark red colour scheme. But alas, that didn't happen.

Instead with SWR, we gained a bland grey theme as it is more of a commuter railway though both SWR and GWR seem similarly named and both owned by same parent company but each are miles apart in styling!

It is a real shame that SWR didn't receive a modern snazzy look like TPE if the traditional styling of GWR wouldn't be suitable.

 

[JordyWM]

This kind of works when FirstGroup rebranded FGW to GWR trying to sweep away its negative reputation by bringing in a traditional nostaglic image. I have to admit the GWR branding style looks beautiful and really good quality even the service can sometimes be dismal.

I really like GWR's racing green colour and use of brushed metal effect and leather on seating and interiors giving this a premium feel on some trains - obviously not on Pacers!

Like others I had hopes when the SW franchise was passed to FirstGroup, that the GWR branding style could sort of be replicated for SWR however with a maroon/dark red colour scheme. But alas, that didn't happen.

Instead with SWR, we gained a bland grey theme as it is more of a commuter railway though both SWR and GWR seem similarly named and both owned by same parent company but each are miles apart in styling!

It is a real shame that SWR didn't receive a modern snazzy look like TPE if the traditional styling of GWR wouldn't be suitable.

I have to agree with GWR branding. They have the branding and livery spot on in my opinion, and the trains look amazing, even the older ones.

 

[whhistle]

Would it not be reasonable for the average passenger to assume that a company called South Western Railway were responsible for the railway infrastructure?

Yes, but it isn't because of the name.

Passengers see the railway as "the railway", not as separate companies.
As someone else posted, when things go wrong, it's whoever the passenger can see is whose fault it is.

 

[al78]

A railway is what trains run on, they are not interchangeable terms , you can't run a railway on a train (cue smart alec remarks about having an office and a boardroom on a train.....).

Some people will use the term "railway" to refer to the infrastructure and trains combined, in the same way as some people use "road" to refer to the tarmac and the traffic combined. It is like if someone claims cycling on a road is dangerous, and I respond by saying a road isn't dangerous, it is just a passive piece of tarmac*, pedantry that is most likely to irritate and alienate, rather than contribute anything useful.

*To be accurate, the road isn't dangerous, it is drivers of motor vehicles who are careless or reckless that are dangerous.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding Railway/train stations, this has got me thinking about the broad use of stations to describe various things, such as fire/police, etc.

A bus station is where a bus stops, and a railway/train station is where a train stops. What happens at a work station?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Personally I abhor "train station" as an American interloper but I'm old.

Just as well we didn't get the horrible term "depot" then!
Actually this term is not universal in the US, mainly in the south, and they use station in many places.

 

[mirodo]

Good question.

I once took a taxi in Coventry from the city centre to the station, I requested to be taken to the "railway station" but to be met with a blank stare then I changed the wording to "train station" and this was understood!

indeed but as any fule kno only Railway Station is correct. To use train station shows a total lack of intelligence, education, and manners. Why mark yourself out as a plebeian?

Perhaps dorsetdesiro should have got the bus instead of the taxi - assuming, of course, that the road station is near the railway station.

 

[PeterC]

Personally I abhor "train station" as an American interloper but I'm old.

So am I and I do too

 

[swaldman]

It is something to do with the loss of centrality to the public mind of the railway that 'train station' developed. Younger people perhaps believe that 'train' somehow supplanted 'railway' in the phrase in everyday conversation, but that is a simplification. Forty or fifty years ago when I was young, in ordinary spoken contexts 'station' on its own was used and understood to mean 'railway station', which would generally have sounded formal, if not pretentious in conversation. It was all the other stations, bus, fire, etc., that required qualifiers. It was the loss of pre-eminence of the railway in popular experience that brought about 'train station'. Many younger people, feeling 'station' insufficiently specific, did not know that 'railway station' already existed as it was not a conversational commonplace, and besides it makes some logical sense. After all one goes to the station to catch a train, not a railway. And 'train station' is one syllable shorter, which swings it for those in a hurry.

"The station" is definitely still common usage, but if somebody was coming up with a term as you suggest, then it is true that one refers to a "bus station" and not a "road station"...

 

[Antman]

Yes, but it isn't because of the name.

Passengers see the railway as "the railway", not as separate companies.
As someone else posted, when things go wrong, it's whoever the passenger can see is whose fault it is.

Many regular users know train companies aren't responsible for track, signalling etc but the SWR name does rather suggest otherwise.

 

[DavidGrain]

How about this for confusion
West Midlands Rail, The consortium of 16 local authorities which is now the rail authority for the West Midlands
West Midlands Trains, The present franchisee for the West Midlands
West Midlands Railway, The brand name for the services provided by West Midlands Trains in the West Midlands other than the London NorthWestern services provided by the same operator.

 

[whhistle]

Many regular users know train companies aren't responsible for track, signalling etc but the SWR name does rather suggest otherwise.

Ah yes, that's right... they think British Rail owns it.
If these "people" know train companies aren't responsible then it doesn't matter what a train company calls itself.

 

[Antman]

Ah yes, that's right... they think British Rail owns it.
If these "people" know train companies aren't responsible then it doesn't matter what a train company calls itself.

Those who don't know that are the problem, try explaining to them that a company called South Western Railway aren't actually responsible for railway infrastructure in the south west.

 

[xotGD]

At least we haven't started referring to passengers as 'riders'.

I think a company calling itself xyz Railway sounds classier, but the pedant in me gets a bit annoyed because they don't operate the railway, just the trains.

 

[Mojo]

Regarding Railway/train stations, this has got me thinking about the broad use of stations to describe various things, such as fire/police, etc.

A bus station is where a bus stops, and a railway/train station is where a train stops. What happens at a work station?

Historically, a railway station is a place the railway industry is based (“stationed”); the Stationmaster would have had a much bigger operational role in the running of the service than they do now, with a team of staff including porters and booking clerks even at smaller stations, I don’t think it’s anything to do with a train stopping there. Hence also the terms fire station (where the fire service are stationed), police station, etc. This is the reason I believe the term “train station” makes no sense in a British context, as we have a “railway industry” and not a “train industry” or “railroad industry” as they say in the USA.

 

[whhistle]

Those who don't know that are the problem.

People who don't understand the complicated workings of UK railways are the problem?

I dont' understand the complicated running of a car engine. Does that make me a problem to mechanics?

In my experience, people barely understand the difference between companies, let alone who is responsible for what; and most people don't care. These days, people don't have time to learn something they don't have an interest in.
I'd love to know how car engines work but I haven't the time nor the motivation to learn. My life is too full of other stuff to bother.

 

[Antman]

People who don't understand the complicated workings of UK railways are the problem?

I dont' understand the complicated running of a car engine. Does that make me a problem to mechanics?

In my experience, people barely understand the difference between companies, let alone who is responsible for what; and most people don't care. These days, people don't have time to learn something they don't have an interest in.
I'd love to know how car engines work but I haven't the time nor the motivation to learn. My life is too full of other stuff to bother.

At the risk of repeating myself.................try explaining to the average passenger that South Western Railway are not responsible for...................railways in the south west!

 

[scragend]

At least we haven't started referring to passengers as 'riders'.

No, we've started referring to them as 'customers'. Grrrr....

 

[deep south]

Since the T in TOC stands for Train, you have your answer. But it really doesn't matter....

 

[gg1]

No, we've started referring to them as 'customers'. Grrrr....

....although that has been around for longer than you might think. I remember being referred to as customer by BR wheras the switch from the word railway to train is I believe a noughties thing.

 

[tbtc]

No, we've started referring to them as 'customers'. Grrrr....

I know it'll put me in a minority on the Forum, but I don't mind "customers" - it recognises that we are the people who pay for the service, we need to be treated with consumer rights in mind, the railway is run for the benefit of us fare payers.

"Passengers", whilst traditional, makes us sound more like luggage than people - I know there's the "passage to India" sense of the word, but "passengers" has a connotation of inconvenience to me.

Either is okay though - it's like a three coach train versus a three car train - I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram either way.

Train station is fine - you got there to catch a train, just like you go to a bus station to catch a bus - you're not going to get a "railway", you're going there to get a train.

What goes around comes around though - the snappy "train" or the traditional "railway" - both will have periods in favour. If anything, it makes it easier for TOCs to distinguish themselves from predecessors, since there are only so many geographical names you can come up with for a TOC providing a service in a particular area of the country.