Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

[snowball]

There was a Network Rail press release about it a week ago:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/story-to-complete-waverley-platform-enhancements/

Story Contracting has replaced Carillion as the main contractor for the platform extension works at Edinburgh Waverley.


Platforms 5 and 6, to the east of the station, and 12, to the west, are being made longer as Waverley prepares for the arrival of Virgin East Coast’s new Azuma trains and ScotRail’s new class-385s.

The enhancements are being delivered as part of the Scottish Government’s Edinburgh Glasgow Improvement Programme (EGIP) and the Department for Transport-funded Intercity Express Programme (IEP).

Original contractor Carillion began work on the project in 2017 before going into liquidation in January of this year. Story has previous experience on the project, having been sub-contracted by Carillion to deliver elements of the works.

Waverley’s newly-extended platform 12 entered service last December, and Story will now complete the work to extend Platforms 5 and 6, to the east of the station, to 275m.

Kris Kinnear, Network Rail’s deputy regional director for infrastructure projects in Scotland, said: “The electrification of our railway will allow us to run faster, longer, greener trains and cut journey times while increasing the number of seats available for passengers on new state-of-the-art train fleets.

“We will be working closely with Story to minimise the delay to this project caused by Carillion’s liquidation and to reduce any inconvenience for customers at Waverley as much as possible.”

The infrastructure works, and the new trains they will enable, will help to transform travel on both the East Coast main line and on the main line between Scotland’s two biggest cities.

The platform extension project will increase on-train passenger capacity and reduce journey times – by around 10 minutes between Edinburgh and Glasgow and by around 20 minutes between the two capitals.

 

[Trackbedjolly]

There are hundreds of people on trains from the borders wanting to get to the Waverley area. Adding 20 minutes onto their commute time just so that half a dozen people can get to Cameron toll faster isn't going to go down well. Particularly since you could probably still get to Cameron Toll faster by bus from half the stations.

That's undoubtedly true but how many dozens (hundreds?) of people are there who want to get to Edinburgh Park or Haymarket area can't do so now without changing to another train or tram/bus? Do they bother or continue to drive there? This is the kind of information that needs to be gained in order to plan any such diversion of trains. Why is nobody doing this? Who said anything about Cameron Toll? The big retail market to capture is surely Fort Kinnaird. Have you seen the huge queues of cars blocking the roads all around there at certain times?

 

[Altnabreac]

That's undoubtedly true but how many dozens (hundreds?) of people are there who want to get to Edinburgh Park or Haymarket area can't do so now without changing to another train or tram/bus? Do they bother or continue to drive there? This is the kind of information that needs to be gained in order to plan any such diversion of trains. Why is nobody doing this? Who said anything about Cameron Toll? The big retail market to capture is surely Fort Kinnaird. Have you seen the huge queues of cars blocking the roads all around there at certain times?

I sincerely doubt any passenger service on a reopened South Suburban would have a station closer to Fort Kinnaird than Newcraighall already is. It's about 700m from Newcraighall to Fort Kinnaird. The safeguarded site for a Niddrie station in the Edinburgh Local Development Plan is at the top of Hay Avenue which is 1.2km from Fort Kinnaird. The LDP also identifies a potential station site behind Jewel ASDA but that is on the chord line so wouldn't be served by Borders trains. In reality it is also too close to Brunstane to have a viable business case.

 

[Trackbedjolly]

I sincerely doubt any passenger service on a reopened South Suburban would have a station closer to Fort Kinnaird than Newcraighall already is. It's about 700m from Newcraighall to Fort Kinnaird. The safeguarded site for a Niddrie station in the Edinburgh Local Development Plan is at the top of Hay Avenue which is 1.2km from Fort Kinnaird. The LDP also identifies a potential station site behind Jewel ASDA but that is on the chord line so wouldn't be served by Borders trains. In reality it is also too close to Brunstane to have a viable business case.

The proposal to serve stations in South Edinburgh from Borders Railway trains around the sub needs to be looked at in detail together with information gathered on who wants to go where. The Borders Railway has been open for 2 and a half years; I don't think it is too early to start looking at how it should develop within what is available currently. I don't know enough about the timings of trains on the BR to say if such a journey is reasonable to slot with train movements elsewhere i.e. at Haymarket. I understand one of the major bottleneck areas is between Waverley and Newcraighall Stations. By taking a few trains away from that area around the South Sub a certain amount of congestion relief may be obtained.

BTW A reopened South Sub circular service would be better placed to have a station at Fort Kinnaird as it would not serve Newcraighall but again more development work would need to be done. It depends on what the aim of such a service would be: is it better to take people from the Niddrie area to other places or serve a huge retail complex which is in need of road traffic allieviation?

 

[Altnabreac]

The proposal to serve stations in South Edinburgh from Borders Railway trains around the sub needs to be looked at in detail together with information gathered on who wants to go where. The Borders Railway has been open for 2 and a half years; I don't think it is too early to start looking at how it should develop within what is available currently. I don't know enough about the timings of trains on the BR to say if such a journey is reasonable to slot with train movements elsewhere i.e. at Haymarket. I understand one of the major bottleneck areas is between Waverley and Newcraighall Stations. By taking a few trains away from that area around the South Sub a certain amount of congestion relief may be obtained.

BTW A reopened South Sub circular service would be better placed to have a station at Fort Kinnaird as it would not serve Newcraighall but again more development work would need to be done. It depends on what the aim of such a service would be: is it better to take people from the Niddrie area to other places or serve a huge retail complex which is in need of road traffic allieviation?

Well you can go and look at the safeguarded station sites in the Edinburgh Council Local Development Plan maps and you will clearly see that they do not include a station at Fort Kinnaird that could be served by Borders Rail.

 

[HowardGWR]

I sincerely doubt any passenger service on a reopened South Suburban would have a station closer to Fort Kinnaird than Newcraighall already is. It's about 700m from Newcraighall to Fort Kinnaird. The safeguarded site for a Niddrie station in the Edinburgh Local Development Plan is at the top of Hay Avenue which is 1.2km from Fort Kinnaird. The LDP also identifies a potential station site behind Jewel ASDA but that is on the chord line so wouldn't be served by Borders trains. In reality it is also too close to Brunstane to have a viable business case.

How do folk get from Newcraighall to those shops? Is there a shuttle bus? If not, I would be surprised if anyone walked it.

 

[Altnabreac]

How do folk get from Newcraighall to those shops? Is there a shuttle bus? If not, I would be surprised if anyone walked it.

There's a perfectly good pavement alongside the road. 700m is well within the typical distance people are willing to walk to access heavy rail services if they have a need to do so. I worked in that area for a while and used Newcraighall and Brunstane stations as well as walking to and from Fort Kinnaird. It's also cycleable.

To be honest I'm not convinced that Fort Kinnaird is likely to be a big rail trip generator (car and bus will remain the dominant modes) but it wasn't me who said it was. I was just pointing out to trackbedjolly that Fort Kinnaird already had a railway station with access to the Borders Rail line that was closer to Fort Kinnaird than any South Suburban station would be.

 

[railjock]

As much as it would fun for us enthusiasts I can't see many passengers wanting a trip around the leafy suburbs of Edinburgh to get to Haymarket or Waverley.

 

[InOban]

The suburban line has two present and future purposes. It is the freight avoiding line, has been upgraded to W12, and is to be the route for container trains to reach Mossend from Felixtowe. And it will be used by passenger services when either end of Waverley has be closed for major engineering.

The idea of using it for extra local services is a non-starter.

And I write as someone who once travelled the route as a child.

 

[railjock]

The suburban line has two present and future purposes. It is the freight avoiding line, has been upgraded to W12, and is to be the route for container trains to reach Mossend from Felixtowe. And it will be used by passenger services when either end of Waverley has be closed for major engineering.

The idea of using it for extra local services is a non-starter.

And I write as someone who once travelled the route as a child.

It would be useful for me getting to Tynecastle but I agree it isn't viable for local passenger services.

 

[Steamysandy]

After a derailment many years ago I travelled from Drem to Waverley via the suburban line and Haymarket but the train was formed of the previously arrived sleeping cars from Inverness completely turned out as left by its overnight passengers!

 

[trainophile]

I have noticed recently that on train destination announcements (on both VT and TPE) seem to have dropped the Waverley and just say Edinburgh (and Haymarket if appropriate). Is this an official change or just common parlance?

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

I asked this relatively recently elsewhere, so here are the answers I got at the time:

Edinburgh was known as Edinburgh Waverley from April 1866 (previously known as Edinburgh North Bridge) to April 1966. It takes a long time to change the habits of a hundred years. The Waverley was dropped officially after the closing of Edinburgh Prince's Street in 1965 although to me and to many others Waverley is in Prince's Street so that must have caused some confusion. Waverley as someone else has commented is not actually the name of the area anyway but is a made up name for the station taken from a series of novels.

Now Haymarket is a different matter. Haymarket is the name of the area and presumably is a historical reference to what took place there in the same way that Grassmarket is another area of Edinburgh. I cannot believe that that Haymarket was ever a separate town from Edinburgh with its own name but if it was then someone will correct me. It would make a lot of sense to restore Waverley to the name of the station and to rename Haymarket as Edinbugh Haymarket.

There is a station in Birmingham called University presumably because Birmingham University was the first university to have a station on its campus. This is OK for local traffic but it makes no sense for the train announcements in Cardiff or Nottingham to list University as one of the stopping points on a train leaving either of those stations. I did once have an argument with a ticket inspector at University who said I could not use my ticket made out for Birmingham Stations as I said University was a Birmingham station. I waited two minutes till 9.30am and waved my pass at him.

The dropping of Waverley was never completed at the station as the signage was not changed at the time. When it became known in the '80s that ScR proposed to do this, there was a strong negative reaction in Edinburgh and the plan was abandoned. All the signage renewals since by BR and Network Rail have retained Waverley. The current platform signs have it in the same size of print as Edinburgh while latterly under BR it had been somewhat grudgingly smaller.

From here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...a-virgin-conductor.158428/page-4#post-3277942

I am intrigued though how it continued to be announced as "Edinburgh Waverley, Edinburgh Haymarket" for years well until, what, 2010ish?

 

[trainophile]

Oh gosh, I thought it had been announced as Waverley until a lot more recently than 2010. Thanks for the link, appreciated.

 

[Stopper]

Newcraighall and Fort Kinnaird don’t need to be linked by a shuttle bus, they’re within perfect distance of each other. I’m surprised it’s even 700m to be honest, it seems a lot closer.

 

[greyman42]

I thought that Edinburgh Waverley was named after the bridge which you can access it from.

 

[Steamysandy]

[QUOTE
="greyman42, post: 3412125, member: 52976"]I thought that Edinburgh Waverley was named after the bridge which you can access it from.[/QUOTE]
No the bridge was named after the station! Sir Walter Scott was a big literary figure at the time of its naming with his Waverley novels.
The Scott Monument is just a short distance away overlooking the west end of the platforms.

 

[greyman42]

[QUOTE
="greyman42, post: 3412125, member: 52976"]I thought that Edinburgh Waverley was named after the bridge which you can access it from.

No the bridge was named after the station! Sir Walter Scott was a big literary figure at the time of its naming with his Waverley novels.
The Scott Monument is just a short distance away overlooking the west end of the platforms.[/QUOTE]
I never knew it was the other way round! Thanks for the reply.

 

[greyman42]

No the bridge was named after the station! Sir Walter Scott was a big literary figure at the time of its naming with his Waverley novels.
The Scott Monument is just a short distance away overlooking the west end of the platforms.

I never knew it was the other way round! Thanks for the reply.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

Oh gosh, I thought it had been announced as Waverley until a lot more recently than 2010. Thanks for the link, appreciated.

Oh it might well have been. As a (former) local I have always termed it Waverley and have kind of tuned out of what the announcements say! It was definitely "Edinburgh" only in 2014/5, but that's the earliest I could be certain about from personal experience! I was just kind of fudging it and assuming I'd missed the change so adding on a few more years!

 

[oldman]

I've noticed on platform 1 short trains to and from the west stopping at the extreme east end of the platform although the exit is at the extreme west end. Is there a need for this annoying arrangement? I assume terminating trains from the east stop at the west end of the platform which is more convenient.

 

[najaB]

I've noticed on platform 1 short trains to and from the west stopping at the extreme east end of the platform although the exit is at the extreme west end. Is there a need for this annoying arrangement? I assume terminating trains from the east stop at the west end of the platform which is more convenient.

If I understand your question, is it not just a case that they are pulling up to the signal?

 

[Chrism20]

If I understand your question, is it not just a case that they are pulling up to the signal?

Yes, I saw the same thing last week and thought it was silly but after looking more closely the unit was right up at the signal.

It means the passengers have a bit of a walk I suppose but if needs be would allow another unit to enter the platform behind it.

 

[Mingulay]

Given all the improvements we enjoyed in Waverley with the new glazing and painting , its a great shame someone does not take ownership of cleaning the Waverley steps canopy , glazing and steelwork . First and last thing you see as you enter or leave the station is layers of filth and grime on the glass and steel supports. Just awful . Same on the Shops glazed canopy . Detracts from the appearance of the place . Suggests lack of attention to detail

 

[Taunton]

The Waverley was dropped officially after the closing of Edinburgh Prince's Street in 1965

I can tell you that all through the 1970s, at least, the large sign on Waverley Bridge at the top of the taxi/pedestrian ramp just had the BR logo and "Waverley Station". No mention of Edinburgh at all.

 

[snowball]

I don'y know what announcements say at Waverley today, but in 1973-5 they used to say "This is Edinburgh Waverley Station, this is Waverley Station Edinburgh".

If I remember correctly Haymarket was just called Haymarket.

 

[Steamysandy]

As an aside,the story went that many years ago a farmworker from East Lothian took the train into Edinburgh for the first time.
When he got back his co workers asked him what he thought of Edinburgh.
His reply was it's a great place and it's all covered ower with a glass roof- further enquiries revealed he'd never been out of the station!

 

[route101]

The auto announcements at stations are just Edinburgh eg the Bathgate services but at Stations its Edinburgh Waverley on the boards.

 

[marks87]

And of course, the Calton Road entrance still has a huge “Edinburgh Waverley” sign.

https://goo.gl/maps/5xshP1MBQJE2

 

[mde]

And of course, the Calton Road entrance still has a huge “Edinburgh Waverley” sign.

https://goo.gl/maps/5xshP1MBQJE2

That sign was only installed a couple of years back - granted planning permission in June 2014 under planning app 14/01936/LBC (search on https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk ).