Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

[13h202]

You have to remember that any new proposed tram interchange at Waverley doesn’t just have the airport in mind — in fact it is probably a less important factor going forward, given Covid’s impact on the aviation industry. Waverley is the nearest major station for Leith and RIE/Southside, both of which will be served by future tram expansion.

The 100 will probably disappear once the buses and trams merge... unnecessary duplication is one of the main reasons for it. IMO, trams provide a more obvious and easy interchange than buses for your average person. Even if it is slower, a suitably located tram stop will almost always win out due to it being a permanent and high quality piece of infrastructure.

As for the stop at the airport... I believe that the plaza area between the terminal and the stop was left empty to allow future terminal expansion... which would bring the stop right to the door. We may be waiting a long while yet, given the circumstances.

 

[takno]

You have to remember that any new proposed tram interchange at Waverley doesn’t just have the airport in mind — in fact it is probably a less important factor going forward, given Covid’s impact on the aviation industry. Waverley is the nearest major station for Leith and RIE/Southside, both of which will be served by future tram expansion.

The 100 will probably disappear once the buses and trams merge... unnecessary duplication is one of the main reasons for it. IMO, trams provide a more obvious and easy interchange than buses for your average person. Even if it is slower, a suitably located tram stop will almost always win out due to it being a permanent and high quality piece of infrastructure.

As for the stop at the airport... I believe that the plaza area between the terminal and the stop was left empty to allow future terminal expansion... which would bring the stop right to the door. We may be waiting a long while yet, given the circumstances.

The 100 is more regular and ten minutes faster for most of the day, and has a perfectly reasonable rail interchange at Haymarket. Interchange to Waverley isn't that key, although I certainly don't appreciate the extra walk to get to st Andrews square from the southside. The fact that there is a vague plan to send the tram out past my flat to the RIE likely to be completed 20 years after I'm dead and buried doesn't really solve any of today's transport problems

 

[snookertam]

Let’s be honest, it would take a seismic event to shift Edinburgh folk out of their cars. The city council there are setting up pop up cycle lanes and they’re getting vandalised/parked on by car users. Local businesses are sabotaging attempts to restrict parking for social distancing purposes. The people of the city have been dead set against the trams - largely influenced by the Scotsman and Evening News tory rags - from the outset and unless this changes will be a consistent block on public transport improvements for Edinburgh for some time to come.

I’ve never known a city to have such a stubbornly backward outlook on this stuff. Maybe it’s because decent public transport is something you associate with Glasgow or something.

 

[gavin1985]

Let’s be honest, it would take a seismic event to shift Edinburgh folk out of their cars. The city council there are setting up pop up cycle lanes and they’re getting vandalised/parked on by car users. Local businesses are sabotaging attempts to restrict parking for social distancing purposes. The people of the city have been dead set against the trams - largely influenced by the Scotsman and Evening News tory rags - from the outset and unless this changes will be a consistent block on public transport improvements for Edinburgh for some time to come.

Whilst I completely agree with what you are saying, personally I took the plunge and got rid of my car towards the end of last year and started car sharing with the Mrs. If I am being honest, I haven't regretted at all, actually now ironically with COVID and lockdown it fully justified getting rid of the car. More so now that I work from home and been told by management its a 1 or 2 days in the office when safe to return, then rest from home.

That being said, I am a big fan of the Trams, my only gripe is the original project f**king it up so badly to cost us what would have been a great network. Ideally I would love to see the Tram go south to the Royal etc. and north to Granton via Western General.
The outcome of the Newheaven completeion is vital I would say.

 

[najaB]

Let’s be honest, it would take a seismic event to shift Edinburgh folk out of their cars.

With 2020 being what it is, I now fully expect an earthquake in the next week or two. Or Arthur's Seat will come back to life.

In seriousness though, I think that the Covid lockdown will make a huge difference because a lot of businesses that had only grudgingly supported home-working have now had more than half a year of it without grinding to a halt. It's going to be a lot harder for them to insist that their people be in the office every day. So there's likely to be a decline in the number of people coming into the centre of Edinburgh/Edinburgh Park/etc every day.

When you're only coming into town a couple of days a week, especially if the hours are more flexible, then public transport is less of a hassle.

 

[takno]

Let’s be honest, it would take a seismic event to shift Edinburgh folk out of their cars. The city council there are setting up pop up cycle lanes and they’re getting vandalised/parked on by car users. Local businesses are sabotaging attempts to restrict parking for social distancing purposes. The people of the city have been dead set against the trams - largely influenced by the Scotsman and Evening News tory rags - from the outset and unless this changes will be a consistent block on public transport improvements for Edinburgh for some time to come.

I’ve never known a city to have such a stubbornly backward outlook on this stuff. Maybe it’s because decent public transport is something you associate with Glasgow or something.

Apart from losing our local train network, Edinburgh has far better public transport than Glasgow, and lower car usage. We have by percentage less than half as much of the city paved over as road than Glasgow does, which makes things busier even with fewer cars out and about on the roads. The main objection to the trams from Edinburgh was about the cost and needless disruption of getting them built - almost nobody thinks we should get rid of them, and there's fairly broad support for the extension

 

[route101]

Apart from losing our local train network, Edinburgh has far better public transport than Glasgow, and lower car usage. We have by percentage less than half as much of the city paved over as road than Glasgow does, which makes things busier even with fewer cars out and about on the roads. The main objection to the trams from Edinburgh was about the cost and needless disruption of getting them built - almost nobody thinks we should get rid of them, and there's fairly broad support for the extension

Edinburgh bus network is denser and better used than Glasgows, i know Glasgow has rail. Glasgow allows easy access by car too.

 

[snookertam]

Apart from losing our local train network, Edinburgh has far better public transport than Glasgow, and lower car usage. We have by percentage less than half as much of the city paved over as road than Glasgow does, which makes things busier even with fewer cars out and about on the roads. The main objection to the trams from Edinburgh was about the cost and needless disruption of getting them built - almost nobody thinks we should get rid of them, and there's fairly broad support for the extension

Lower car usage? That’d be interesting, as from what I gather less than 50% of Glasgow’s population has access to a car. In fairness, you do have the council owned bus service which seems pretty reliable and popular, so I’ll give you that. But I’m also watching much of the city’s attempts atany sort of pedestrianisation and restricting parking met with loud opposition.

Glasgow’s public transport is extensive though and with some proper multi-mode ticketing would be excellent. I was obviously being facetious about Edinburgh folk opposing because it was associated with Glasgow

 

[takno]

Lower car usage? That’d be interesting, as from what I gather less than 50% of Glasgow’s population has access to a car. In fairness, you do have the council owned bus service which seems pretty reliable and popular, so I’ll give you that. But I’m also watching much of the city’s attempts atany sort of pedestrianisation and restricting parking met with loud opposition.

Glasgow’s public transport is extensive though and with some proper multi-mode ticketing would be excellent. I was obviously being facetious about Edinburgh folk opposing because it was associated with Glasgow

54% have access to a car in Glasgow and Dundee, 59% in Edinburgh Stats. All other Local Authorities in Scotland are a fair bit higher. I think the main issue with pedestrianisation is that with so few roads in the centre to start with you are almost always impacting the bus service, as well as squeezing the space for drivers down to literally nothing. Waverley Bridge is a case in point - there's obviously some value in pedestrianising it, but there isn't unlimited room in St Andrews Square, and given that you struggle to squeeze anything into the old town proper you're inherently moving buses a lot further away.

 

[eoff]

Edinburgh has a pretty good public transport system. Lack and cost of parking, busy roads and 20mph zones make it more attractive. The fare structure is annoying unless you have a pass. And there are generally good connections with one exception where bus services have been removed in recent years ( almost completely from Waverley Bridge and some from the westbound stops on Princes St.), taxis are now outside and move around, trams are not as close as you would expect, and that would be Waverley Station.

 

[385001]

The fare structure is annoying unless you have a pass.

?

It’s £1.80 for a single journey no matter distance and capped at £4.50 if you use Apple Pay/Contactless or buy a day ticket for multiple journeys.

Only issue for me is lack of a 60/75 minute single ticket for connecting journeys but, like the airport discussion, irrelevant to the present and future of Waverley.

 

[eoff]

?

Reading Bus single - 60 minute transfer
TFL bus - 60/70? minutes
LRT - no transfer allowance

But back to Waverley, it is a real problem how to improve the station given the location and the fact that people are VERY protective of views in Edinburgh. Must be a real problem for people who struggle to climb hills, you have the ramps, the lifts that probably few people know are there to Princes St. level and the world's slowest escalator series up the Waverley Steps.
It would be nice to have a lift to North Bridge level or all-weather escalators up Fleshmarket Close, or even a Helter Skelter down the Scotsman steps

 

[railjock]

Reading Bus single - 60 minute transfer
TFL bus - 60/70? minutes
LRT - no transfer allowance

But back to Waverley, it is a real problem how to improve the station given the location and the fact that people are VERY protective of views in Edinburgh. Must be a real problem for people who struggle to climb hills, you have the ramps, the lifts that probably few people know are there to Princes St. level and the world's slowest escalator series up the Waverley Steps.
It would be nice to have a lift to North Bridge level or all-weather escalators up Fleshmarket Close, or even a Helter Skelter down the Scotsman steps

Escalators to North Bridge sounds decent but how practical are they? I assume North Bridge will be listed as well.

 

[edwin_m]

Escalators to North Bridge sounds decent but how practical are they? I assume North Bridge will be listed as well.

They'd be much more obtrusive than a lift, and to be honest nobody needs to be on the bridge itself (unless they're checking out whether they can see the Forth?), they need to be somewhere off one end or other of it. In younger days I'd think nothing of climbing the Scotsman steps on the way to frequent orthodontics appointments on Chambers Street, but if I was doing that today a southern equivalent to the Waverley Steps escalators would be very welcome.

 

[EllieAquitrain]

It would be nice to have a lift to North Bridge level or all-weather escalators up Fleshmarket Close, or even a Helter Skelter down the Scotsman steps

Escalators to North Bridge sounds decent but how practical are they? I assume North Bridge will be listed as well.

They'd be much more obtrusive than a lift, and to be honest nobody needs to be on the bridge itself (unless they're checking out whether they can see the Forth?), they need to be somewhere off one end or other of it.

I think there's some miscommunication here - originally lifts to North Bridge were mentioned and escalators only elsewhere. Indeed, lift(s) to North Bridge would be pretty unobtrusive whereas I can't see any escalators to the south being anything other than eyesores.

One reason to go directly up to North Bridge itself might be the bus stops there?

Oh, and sign me up for the Scotsman Helter-Skelter!