Wigan - Preston Upgrade?

[Mathew S]

Appologies if this information is already here somewhere, but if it is I can't find it.

My mother travelled on the train from the Midlands to Wigan today, and says she got talking to someone who tells her he is an engineer who will shortly be working on an upgrade to the railway between Preston and Wigan.

Apparently the upgrade work will have depots at Ince, Chorley, and King Street in Wigan.

I've no way of knowing the accuracy of what I've been told, but does anyone know what this might potentially refer to?

Thanks,

Mat

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It can only be related to HS2 and its impact on the WCML north of Crewe (2026) and Golborne (2033).
It's probably a good sign that someone is working on WCML upgrade options, so we don't slow to a 110mph crawl after 2026.
However, none of it is costed, funded or in any formal plans anywhere.
Hopefully more will emerge as the West Coast Partnership franchise unfolds.
You'd also hope someone is working on upgrades from HS2 towards Liverpool.

 

[Mathew S]

It can only be related to HS2 and its impact on the WCML north of Crewe (2026) and Golborne (2033).
It's probably a good sign that someone is working on WCML upgrade options, so we don't slow to a 110mph crawl after 2026.
However, none of it is costed, funded or in any formal plans anywhere.
Hopefully more will emerge as the West Coast Partnership franchise unfolds.
You'd also hope someone is working on upgrades from HS2 towards Liverpool.

That was one of the thoughts that I had, that it could be HS2 related, but the impression I got was something happening in the next year or two, starting relatively soon.

It's possible, of course, that my mum has grasped totally the wrong end of the stick!

 

[edwin_m]

Parts of Wigan-Preston are pretty straight so there might be scope to run non-tilting stock at or near the EPS limits.

 

[59CosG95]

Parts of Wigan-Preston are pretty straight so there might be scope to run non-tilting stock at or near the EPS limits.

There may also be scope to restoring a lot of former 4-track lines to 4-tracks to cope with the additional HS2-based traffic (e.g. around Charnock Richard, Coppull Moor etc.).

 

[B&I]

There may also be scope to restoring a lot of former 4-track lines to 4-tracks to cope with the additional HS2-based traffic (e.g. around Charnock Richard, Coppull Moor etc.).

Do you know what the full extent of 4 tracking between Preston and Wigan used to be ?

 

[lancastrian]

Do you know what the full extent of 4 tracking between Preston and Wigan used to be ?

The 4 tracking used to run all the way from Standish Junction, where the Whelley Loop rejoins the main line, right through Preston Station to Fylde Junction. It also used to be 6 tracks from just north of Skew Bridge, over the Ribble into Preston Station.

If the 4 tracks were reinstated from Standish to Balshaw Junction, where it becomes 4 tracks again, to possibility of reopening Coppull Station on the slow lines could be done, like Balshaw Lane & Euxton was reopened a few years ago.

 

[driver_m]

A Preston driver was telling a few of us about some forthcoming upgrade work which will result in the WCML anglo Scot traffic going via Bolton/Manchester at some point. Don't know any more sorry so nothing extra to elaborate on.

 

[notlob.divad]

Wigan station(s) were supposed to be the next on GMs wish list after Bolton Interchange, so any depot at King Street could well be related to whatever that work is.

The other day there was a link to a Network Rail press release about upgrading the springs branch freight works to be a new depot for northern. That works could well be classed as Ince.

'Chorley' is the interesting one. As others have pointed out, south of Euxton is where the 4 track restarts. There is a huge amount of land between the fasts and the slows south of the station before the junction. And then south of the junction there is quite a long run that feasibly could be relaid to 4 track. It will be very interesting to see what if anything becomes of this. Whilst any work may well be with HS2 in mind, there is surely no harm in accelerating the program where possible to gain the benefits for existing services.

 

[notlob.divad]

A Preston driver was telling a few of us about some forthcoming upgrade work which will result in the WCML anglo Scot traffic going via Bolton/Manchester at some point. Don't know any more sorry so nothing extra to elaborate on.

That is waiting for the completion of the electrification works through Bolton. If the electrification had been completed on time it would already have happened.

 

[driver_m]

Has it ever been 4 tracked immediately north of Wigan North Western? Or always two track? Would be handy having it all the way through, and the added bonus of destroying some of Wigan if not and expansion agreed

 

[PR1Berske]

Oh come on. 110mph is not a crawl, as you claim. Anything that fast is high speed. Why try to say it's slow?

 

[The_Engineer]

I note in the Network Rail Strategic Business Plan for CP6 (2019-24) that it proposes HS2 phase 1 timetabling works, which include Wigan to Euxton, Preston Passenger Capacity and route line speed improvements. It does not specify what these works entail but I would imagine four tracks from the HS2 junction at Bamfurlong to Euxton would be under investigation, and improved line speed to Preston.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/who-we-are/publications-resources/strategicbusinessplan/ and select the appropriate document.....

It appears that options are being assessed for bringing firm work proposals forward as the above document states in respect of these works: "All HS2 related works are subject to confirmation of budget and spend profiles and integration into the Route plans once the scope of works has been determined"

 

[The_Engineer]

It also used to be 6 tracks from just north of Skew Bridge, over the Ribble into Preston Station.

.... and it still is! Through the station to Fylde Junction.

 

[furnessvale]

Has it ever been 4 tracked immediately north of Wigan North Western? Or always two track? Would be handy having it all the way through, and the added bonus of destroying some of Wigan if not and expansion agreed

AFAIAA Wigan NW to Standish was always 2 track. The Whelley lines ran from Bamfurlong to Standish, providing a bypass around Wigan North Western for freight and effectively a 4 track railway.

Combine that with Golbourne, Earlstown, Winwick etc., and the 4 track extended from Warrington BQ to Fylde Jcn Preston.

 

[Geeves]

At some point Preston PSB and Wigan Wallgate Station boxes will have to be moved into the ROC in Manchester so presumably that will come under this upgrade?

 

[edwin_m]

AFAIAA Wigan NW to Standish was always 2 track. The Whelley lines ran from Bamfurlong to Standish, providing a bypass around Wigan North Western for freight and effectively a 4 track railway.

Combine that with Golbourne, Earlstown, Winwick etc., and the 4 track extended from Warrington BQ to Fylde Jcn Preston.

But unfortunately a Down slow train using all these sections would conflict with:

• The Up Fast at Acton Grange
• Both Fasts at Bank Quay south end (slow junction)
• Both tracks of the Chat Moss line at Earlestown (slow junction)
• Both Fasts again at Golborne (slow junction)

And for an Up slow train:

• Down Fast at Balshaw Lane
• Both Fasts at Golborne (slow junction)
• Both tracks of the Chat Moss Line at Newton-le-Willows (slow junction)
• Both Fasts at Winwick (this one's quite fast!)

So what at first appear to be a long four-track section, ideal for fast trains to overtake slower ones, is in fact cut into a mishmash of shorter bits. Several of those junctions were re-laid largely like-for-like a few years back this situation is unlikely to change.

 

[furnessvale]

But unfortunately a Down slow train using all these sections would conflict with:

• The Up Fast at Acton Grange
• Both Fasts at Bank Quay south end (slow junction)
• Both tracks of the Chat Moss line at Earlestown (slow junction)
• Both Fasts again at Golborne (slow junction)

And for an Up slow train:

• Down Fast at Balshaw Lane
• Both Fasts at Golborne (slow junction)
• Both tracks of the Chat Moss Line at Newton-le-Willows (slow junction)
• Both Fasts at Winwick (this one's quite fast!)

So what at first appear to be a long four-track section, ideal for fast trains to overtake slower ones, is in fact cut into a mishmash of shorter bits. Several of those junctions were re-laid largely like-for-like a few years back this situation is unlikely to change.

I wasn't trying to describe an ideal railway, simply what was physically there. Even then, large chunks of that have been lifted, eg, Bamfurlong-Whelley-Standish-Balshaw Lane. When they were in use it was mainly a case of moving the slow unfitted freights a bit further along towards the next conflict.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Appologies if this information is already here somewhere, but if it is I can't find it.

My mother travelled on the train from the Midlands to Wigan today, and says she got talking to someone who tells her he is an engineer who will shortly be working on an upgrade to the railway between Preston and Wigan.

Apparently the upgrade work will have depots at Ince, Chorley, and King Street in Wigan.

I've no way of knowing the accuracy of what I've been told, but does anyone know what this might potentially refer to?

Thanks,

Mat

WCPSU?

 

[notlob.divad]

But unfortunately a Down slow train using all these sections would conflict with:

• The Up Fast at Acton Grange
• Both Fasts at Bank Quay south end (slow junction)
• Both tracks of the Chat Moss line at Earlestown (slow junction)
• Both Fasts again at Golborne (slow junction)

And for an Up slow train:

• Down Fast at Balshaw Lane
• Both Fasts at Golborne (slow junction)
• Both tracks of the Chat Moss Line at Newton-le-Willows (slow junction)
• Both Fasts at Winwick (this one's quite fast!)

So what at first appear to be a long four-track section, ideal for fast trains to overtake slower ones, is in fact cut into a mishmash of shorter bits. Several of those junctions were re-laid largely like-for-like a few years back this situation is unlikely to change.

But long term, HS2 will provide the extra tracks south of Bamfurlong. So what is really desired is a fast line bypass of Wigan station to get the Glasgow trains through without conflicts, and keeping that segregation as far as Preston.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Oh come on. 110mph is not a crawl, as you claim. Anything that fast is high speed. Why try to say it's slow?

You're OK with HS2 trains going slower than the present 390s north of Crewe?
I thought the aim was to get more stretches of 125mph for non-tilt trains.

 

[Mathew S]

WCPSU?

Excuse me?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Oh come on. 110mph is not a crawl, as you claim. Anything that fast is high speed. Why try to say it's slow?

You're right, 110mph is not a crawl. But in this day and age it is not high speed either, merely fast. High speed means speed in excess of 125mph, and some would say in excess of 140mph.

WCPSU?

Excuse me?

I believe WCPSU means West Coast Power Supply Upgrade. Essentially the power supply for the northern part of the WCML has seen little improvement since its inauguration in 1974 and some sections are now being worked close to supply limits. Increasing levels of service will need upgraded power supply sooner or later, even if much of the increased demand is due to existing diesel powered services becoming electrically powered.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The WCML power supply upgrade has been going on for several years, as far as Great Strickland (north of Shap).
It involves major new switchgear at Springs Branch and Euxton (and elsewhere).
You can see the new autotransformer wire along the route.
The upgrade was supposed to go to Glasgow but the section in Scotland was cancelled, mainly because the forecast of more electric freight didn't happen.

 

[furnessvale]

The WCML power supply upgrade has been going on for several years, as far as Great Strickland (north of Shap).
It involves major new switchgear at Springs Branch and Euxton (and elsewhere).
You can see the new autotransformer wire along the route.
The upgrade was supposed to go to Glasgow but the section in Scotland was cancelled, mainly because the forecast of more electric freight didn't happen.

I understand existing freights are suffering through lack of electric power, let alone new ones, so perhaps it is time the scheme was reinstated.

 

[randyrippley]

Could the Morecambe branch be powered off the existing supply? (If anyone is wondering why I'm asking such a seemingly daft question, see my thread about the Eden project in Morecambe)

 

[59CosG95]

I understand existing freights are suffering through lack of electric power, let alone new ones, so perhaps it is time the scheme was reinstated.

Agreed, particularly as the Grangemouth branch is getting wired. That can then allow the Daventry-Grangemouth (and perhaps the Dalston-Grangemouth) freight traffic to go over to electric haulage for most/all of the route.
Granted, Grangemouth would probably need a shunter on site for moving containers/tanks around, but that shouldn't be too hard to surmount as obstacles go.

(Re the Dalston tanks, I do realise Colas Rail Freight don't have any electric locos in their fleet, and I also realise that the Carlisle-Dalston section of the tank traffic is unelectrified, but the tanks are all marshalled together/split up in Carlisle New Yard, which is electrified, so if they were to hire locos in from, say, DBC, that problem could be solved)

 

[Elecman]

Could the Morecambe branch be powered off the existing supply? (If anyone is wondering why I'm asking such a seemingly daft question, see my thread about the Eden project in Morecambe)

Yes as Blackpool North is done now, would need additional switchgear at Hest Bank TSC though. Catterall Feeder is being upgraded.

 

[driver_m]

As a financial BCR .Wiring Morecambe would be a basket case. As an investment though, it would be a great idea as you could then look at Manchester & Liverpool services and provide a boost to the economy of the town.

 

[Ploughman]

As a financial BCR .Wiring Morecambe would be a basket case. As an investment though, it would be a great idea as you could then look at Manchester & Liverpool services and provide a boost to the economy of the town.

Silly question but could it also be linked into a resurrection of the wiring up to Windermere?
Or is the junction the wrong way round?