Eddie said:Any idea what happens when a zone 1&2 Travelcard on Oyster is used through the gates for Platform 13 &14 at Victoria? What fare would be charged to Gatwick? And if travelling on to Brighton, what happens?
Many thanks.
MikeWh said:Hi Eddie,
If you have a boundary zone 2 to Brighton ticket then it’s a valid combination. The gates may not let you in, but the staff should manually. If you use Oyster PAYG to Gatwick then the full Express fare will be charged when you touch out.
I initially thought the same about what the OP was asking, however now I am not so sure and wondering if the reference to boundary zone means they're going to buy a paper ticket? However the Oyster single fare is probably cheaper, using a Southern or Thameslink train, than buying a ticket. So I too would suggest that, and forget GX.
I am sure you are correct on that, yes.I believe this has been tested, so if someone touches in on P13/14 at London Victoria and then touches out in their Travelcard Zones, they are not charged. Equally if they are using PAYG if they touch in on P13/14 at London Victoria and then touch out at, say, Horley, they are only charged the normal PAYG fare rather than the £19.80.
Although I could be wrong on that...
Paper Day Travelcard and paper BZ combination works fine.Yes, it's not entirely clear but maybe you're right, I don't quite get why they think printed BZ tickets on GatEx might have suddenly become zero fuss though (combining a Travelcard-on-Oyster with a paper BZ ticket is legit on GatEx but it's not going to be zero fuss! ... indeed I suspect combining a paper Travelcard and paper BZ ticket on GatEx isn't easy either...)
One has to assume that GatEx remains enough of a money spinner for GTR that they continue with the premium fare malarkey. Oh well.
Sorry, I was indeed referring to buying a paper boundary zone ticket. Thanks all!
(And sorry Yorkie, but I was just asking hypothetically for if one of my friends wants to know - I don't have an oyster travelcard myself, but a paper one).
Why is the gateline an issue for the Oyster travelcard? I'd have thought I'd be more likely to have a problem with the paper travelcard (indeed, I've had issues in the past with such combinations, though eventually managed to talk my way through). With an Oyster travelcard the gateline staff surely doesn't know you're not intending on paying PAYG, so it should be completely smooth.Paper Travelcard + paper BZ ticket - legit, and should be fine (as per talldave's reply above).
Oyster Travelcard season + paper BZ ticket - also a legit combination (as above), though having it recognised as such at the p13 & 14 gateline might be more difficult.
Unless you use a gateline from which the only possible destinations are outwith the zones covered by your Travelcard (such as Zones 1-2 Travelcard at Marylebone).With an Oyster travelcard the gateline staff surely doesn't know you're not intending on paying PAYG, so it should be completely smooth.
I believe GTR may charge the full fare, as if no Travelcard was held, if you use the Platforms 13/14 gateline and tap out at Gatwick Airport, and if that is the case, anyone who is charged in this manner is urged to contact me directly with the evidence.With regards to the other interesting point (which I hadn't even thought of) brought up, that of the PAYG fare if you have a Travelcard - do you get charged the full Victoria-to-Gatwick fare if you use GatEx but not if you use Southern? If so, how do they measure this (do they use the GatEx gateline)? If not, do they always charge a full Victoria-to-Gatwick fare on Oyster PAYG even if you have a travelcard? Does the same apply to fares from Thameslink-served stations? What about London Bridge Southern platforms?
Yes, a real-world test would be interesting! I've just asked my friends if anyone has experience in this - quite a few have inboundary Travelcards though I doubt there's many who fancy a jolly up to Gatwick just to test something.
All fares involving stations outside zone 6 on the Gatwick line are decided by the DfT*. TfL impliment them unless there is a technical constraint. They are not complicit and have managed to persuade the DfT to correct some of the overcharging (eg avoiding zone 1 fares which were higher than via zone 1).It was tfl who approved the arrangement and I personally believe that the organisations complicity in the attempts by GTR to mislead and overcharge customers is quite disgraceful.
So if you touch in at 13/14 but don't touch out, you'll presumably be charged a (rather large) fare? Has it been known to be possible to contest this?Right, deep breath.
Platforms 13/14 at Victoria are treated as a completely separate station to the rest of Victoria NR. At that 'station' there is an entry threshold of the GatEx single fare, regardless of whether a travelcard is present or not. If you travel to Gatwick you will be charged the full GatEx fare as Oyster extension fares do not apply. If you travel to anywhere else you will be charged the correct fare, including taking account of any travelcard, when you touch out. It is worth pointing out that there is no OSI with anywhere else at that 'station' so you might be overcharged on PAYG if you have arrived on the tube at Victoria.
When other services use platforms 13/14 the staff are supposed to route Oyster/contactless users through an adjacent platforms gateline to avoid many of these problems. If the GatEx uses other platforms then you get a cheap ride, and the DfT have reluctantly agreed that because of the technical barriers to resolving the issue.
The GatEx Oyster/contactless fare is advertised as a standalone fare (like StP to Stratford I on HS1). Any additional travel is paid for separately, hence why there is no OSI.So if you touch in at 13/14 but don't touch out, you'll presumably be charged a (rather large) fare? Has it been known to be possible to contest this?
What you say sounds like such an unbelievable scam that I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a fuss kicked up about this point in particular. Surely the majority of people to catch the Gatwick Express would be arriving off the tube, so does this mean the majority of people would be overcharged? How much are you "supposed" to be charged for a tube journey plus GatEx?
No. If you arrive from Z1 on the Underground you pay the £2.40 Z1 single and the £19.80 Gatwick Express single. That's the fare they advertise. It'd be £10.60 for a Zone 1 LU to Gatwick Airport single without using GX.Surely the majority of people to catch the Gatwick Express would be arriving off the tube, so does this mean the majority of people would be overcharged?
Well presumably you will have an incomplete journey? What's the entry threshold?
At that 'station' there is an entry threshold of the GatEx single fare, regardless of whether a travelcard is present or not.
So if you touch in at 13/14 but don't touch out, you'll presumably be charged a (rather large) fare? Has it been known to be possible to contest this?
What you say sounds like such an unbelievable scam that I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a fuss kicked up about this point in particular. Surely the majority of people to catch the Gatwick Express would be arriving off the tube, so does this mean the majority of people would be overcharged? How much are you "supposed" to be charged for a tube journey plus GatEx?
Yet not applying the extention fare between Gatwick and whatever boundary season held on the oyster card. When there is the technical means to do so and is done on the rest of the network is not being within the spirit of the atoc conditions of carriage. Unlike hs1 Travelcards are valid on the Gatwick express and can be combined with other tickets to gatwickAll fares involving stations outside zone 6 on the Gatwick line are decided by the DfT*. TfL impliment them unless there is a technical constraint. They are not complicit and have managed to persuade the DfT to correct some of the overcharging (eg avoiding zone 1 fares which were higher than via zone 1).
*Ok it's publicly GTR, but they have to get everything signed off by the DfT.
Joe Paxton said:The Tube journey and the GatEx journey separately - there's no scam or overcharging, GatEx carries a standalone premium fare when using Oyster & contactless.
MikeWh said:It is worth pointing out that there is no OSI with anywhere else at that 'station' so you might be overcharged on PAYG if you have arrived on the tube at Victoria.
If you depart from p13/14 and your destination is somewhere other than Gatwick Airport....which specifically says the word "overcharged". If there's no overcharging, how are you overcharged?