Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[Bletchleyite]

Hmm it looks rather strange with 2 of the doors taken out, and even allowing for the fact the colour scheme isn't complete and the doors presumably wont be red it doesn't do it any favours. I don't like the triangular style warning panel which just emphasises its somewhat noddy looks, better with a full width one in my view, I'm not sure that a Black Windows band really suits the D stock either.

I like window bands on most stock (the advantage here will be hiding the odd window sizes), but it's too narrow on the LNR livery, it needs to continue above and below the windows a bit more.

 

[edwin_m]

I always thought the D78s were some of the best looking Underground stock. None of the 230 liveries I have seen does them any favours.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't like the triangular style warning panel which just emphasises its somewhat noddy looks, better with a full width one in my view...

I agree. Looks irritatingly unnecessary - although I think it is 'trapezoidal'. If it has to be there, it may not meet the minimum dimension requirement either.

 

[northwichcat]

I think the standard LNR livery would be fine but I question the wisdom of releasing photos of a half-done job like that. It makes it look cheap, as though it’s having a quick lick of paint then straight back into service. It doesn’t do much for the LNR brand image either!

Indeed. As it is it looks like someone's found a load of spare parts in a garage and tried putting them together.

 

[47802]

I agree. Looks irritatingly unnecessary - although I think it is 'trapezoidal'. If it has to be there, it may not meet the minimum dimension requirement either.

Well I guess once its fully painted as a 2 car unit it may look a little better, I would have gone for full yellow front end as per one of the prototype train, unfortunately I think the LNWR colour scheme is a god awful livery anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. As it is it looks like someone's found a load of spare parts in a garage and tried putting them together.

Isn't that sort of what the 230 actually is?

It's the red doors that make it look bad. I expect it went to the paintshop with ply across them all (like the driver's door) and they've been refitted. Though interestingly if you put your hand over the cab it does give you an idea as to what one would look at in "regular" Abellio colours.

 

[507021]

First image of a Marston Vale 230 car:

View attachment 46765

Interesting choice of colour scheme. Though it could be that the LU red doors are going to be vinyl or they haven't been painted yet. The front looks quite nice though.

Also note the PRM toilet in the centre of the carriage (where the second door was).

Photo: https://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/vivarail-d-train-projects-make-progress.html (there is also one of 230002, the battery prototype)

I'm not a fan of that livery, to be honest.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not a fan of that livery, to be honest.

It's not the full livery, just the non-vinyl base.

It'll look like this I expect:

Class 350 in London Northwestern "Trebor Mints" livery

 

[route:oxford]

It's not the full livery, just the non-vinyl base.

It'll look like this I expect:

Class 350 in London Northwestern "Trebor Mints" livery

You see a "Trebor Mint".

I see Pacers:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacers_(confectionery)

 

[northwichcat]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacers_(confectionery)

If only the trains had gone out of existence in the 1980s instead of the sweets.

 

[507021]

It's not the full livery, just the non-vinyl base.

It'll look like this I expect:

Class 350 in London Northwestern "Trebor Mints" livery

Oh, fair enough.

I'm still not keen on that livery either, to be honest. I may well change my mind though, I did with the SWR livery.

 

[Class172]

Apologies if I have missed this, but is there any more information regarding the interior of the 230s that have been ordered. We can all see from the image linked earlier that two doors have been removed, but has the majority of the original layout been retained, or have LNR gone for new seating?

 

[DarloRich]

I'm not a fan of that livery, to be honest.

it cant be finished yet

 

[507021]

it cant be finished yet

It's not, Neil confirmed it's just the base livery.

 

[Mikey C]

I assume the single leaf doors are wide enough for wheelchair access etc?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I assume the single leaf doors are wide enough for wheelchair access etc?

About the same width as if not wider than Class 153 doors so yes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apologies if I have missed this, but is there any more information regarding the interior of the 230s that have been ordered. We can all see from the image linked earlier that two doors have been removed, but has the majority of the original layout been retained, or have LNR gone for new seating?

I believe there is new seating at least in part. Not quite sure what, quite possibly the ironing-board-a-likes (but not actual ironing boards) used on the prototype.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If only the trains had gone out of existence in the 1980s instead of the sweets.

TBH a trio of Pacers (with the e144 treatment) would work just fine on the Marston Vale. Well, pretty much three of any 2-car unit with vehicles of 20m or shorter. The key is there being three of them (so there's a hot spare) and the vehicles being 20m or shorter (because of level crossing positions preventing hanging off the back of a platform with a 2x23m train, else I expect they'd just have used 172s).

(To be fair to WMT and unfair to LM, there have recently been three units down at Bletchley most days that I've noticed, usually 1x153 and 2x150, which has caused a noticeable reliability improvement)

 

[southern442]

I actually think they look quite good - whilst the black band isn't as effective as it is on other units (kind of even making these ones look more dated) they look like they will settle in nicely to branch line duties. The overall 'box on wheels' design will probably mean they stand the test of time anyway; as with the PEP units, giving them a good clean every once in a while along with a couple of refurbs will mean they probably won't ever end up looking too old.

I also think it would be a half decent idea to put these on certain GWR branch lines such as the Marlow and Windsor ones - would mean they could clear away any extra networkers they would need to work these lines (assuming the 769's don't go to these branches which I assume they wouldn't because most of the platforms won't be long enough?)

 

[jimm]

How many more times do people have to be told. GWR is not - ever - taking any 230s?

I have heard the md himself say it, so to my mind that ought to be a fairly definitive verdict on the matter.

230001 was out on the Cotswold Line for more test running from Tuesday to Thursday this week - some pictures by Peter Tandy here http://www.petertandy.co.uk/Recentpics.html

 

[Domh245]

From memory, they didn't want 769s either and yet...

 

[43096]

How many more times do people have to be told. GWR is not - ever - taking any 230s?

I have heard the md himself say it, so to my mind that ought to be a fairly definitive verdict on the matter.

Yes, the same MD who told the world GWR wouldn’t have underfloor engined trains for Paddington-Penzance, and then promptly ordered underfloor engined trains for the route.

I’m not saying it will happen, but you carry on believing what “Hapless Hopwood” tells you...

 

[The_Engineer]

How many more times do people have to be told. GWR is not - ever - taking any 230s?

I have heard the md himself say it, so to my mind that ought to be a fairly definitive verdict on the matter.

I am sure that is his firm decision - until he changes his mind....... (with apologies to "Yes, Minister")

 

[Chris172]

I believe there is new seating at least in part. Not quite sure what, quite possibly the ironing-board-a-likes (but not actual ironing boards) used on the prototype.

I was looking forward to doing my ironing on the 230s

 

[jimm]

Yes, the same MD who told the world GWR wouldn’t have underfloor engined trains for Paddington-Penzance, and then promptly ordered underfloor engined trains for the route.

I’m not saying it will happen, but you carry on believing what “Hapless Hopwood” tells you...

I seem to recall his remarks about underfloor engined trains came around the time when lots of people on here were busy trying to tell us what an excellent thing it would be to send all the 221s to GWR - there is a world of difference between a 22x and an 80x.

And last time I looked, no one was building a 21st century HST - though presumably you are from the camp that thinks they will just go on forever, so why bother replacing them anyway...

I certainly will carry on believing what Mr Hopwood has to say on the subject of 230s.

 

[James James]

I seem to recall his remarks about underfloor engined trains came around the time when lots of people on here were busy trying to tell us what an excellent thing it would be to send all the 221s to GWR - there is a world of difference between a 22x and an 80x.

And last time I looked, no one was building a 21st century HST - though presumably you are from the camp that thinks they will just go on forever, so why bother replacing them anyway...

I certainly will carry on believing what Mr Hopwood has to say on the subject of 230s.

TPE Mk5a+loco is essentially half an HST. A bit like a diesel ICE2 really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TPE Mk5a+loco is essentially half an HST. A bit like a diesel ICE2 really.

Sort of I suppose. To me it's more like 33 + 4-TC as the coaches are basically a single ended unpowered multiple unit.

 

[jimm]

TPE Mk5a+loco is essentially half an HST. A bit like a diesel ICE2 really.

And is something that would probably never have happened had Hitachi had the capacity to build more 802s to the deadlines that TPE wanted new trains delivered by.

Not that it has anything to do with 230s.

 

[Non Multi]

I'm just going to post one word with regards to modern day HSTs.

Brightline.

 

[43096]

And last time I looked, no one was building a 21st century HST - though presumably you are from the camp that thinks they will just go on forever, so why bother replacing them anyway...

You presume wrong. I’m from the camp that says they should have been replaced 10 years ago, rather than throwing increasing amounts of money at them to keep them going in the various re-engineering programmes.