Welsh Bi-Lingual Signs

[cholsey-choose]

I can't understand why everybody doesn't just accept, and use, the local name for places instead of trying to translate. After all, it's only the larger/more important cities that tend to have versions in other languages. And some of those are pointless: like the English calling Marseille Marseilles (but still pronouncing it as the former.) If I'm not mistaken, international timetables usually show place names in the local language. So that we would have trains going from Chester to Caergybi, not Caer to Holyhead.

The thing is that Caergybi/Holyhead has two local place names.

And do you really want the English-language announcement at St Pancras to say 'paree', like a pretentious teenager?

My take on it is that if the Welsh recognise the importance of their tourist income (from all over the world as well as from within the UK), and have any concern at all about the safety of car drivers, then they will admit that the public good is not well served by putting a language first on road signs that means that most drivers have passed the sign before they have found a[n English] word that they recognise. It has happened to me more than once - but maybe it's my fault, and I should have learnt the language before crossing the border! I did try once but gave up...
ps, just found this:
from https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/news-opinion/no-everyone-welsh-road-signs-14006685

I think tourist income speaks in favour of more Welsh-language signing. I know quite a few foreigners (English people and some American relatives) who specificially visit Wales to see the language spoken, they think it adds a bit of local colour and maybe they want to see their ancestral language. Otherwise they might go to Yorkshire or whatever as a side trip from London.

Honestly, if it is really happening to you that you are passing roadsigns before you've found the English word, either you are driving too fast or maybe it's time to consider handing in your licence? Not that I disagree that they really should be in a different font, or at least italics.

 

[cholsey-choose]

Nid oes rhaid bod yn aelod o unrhyw grachach i adnabod yr anwybodaeth nawddoglyd sydd yn cael ei fynegi ar y fforwm yma, nac ychwaith i fod yn siaradwr Cymraeg rhugl, balch.

Rwy'n cytuno! Ond i bod yn gywir, mae'n wneud fe'n mwy tebygol.

 

[Phil from Mon]

I have left off this until now, but honestly. If you have lived anywhere in Wales other than a few very anglicised ones and you have not managed to understand Welsh place names, traffic signs or similar you must be walking around with your eyes and ears closed. To those who go on about Welsh not being relevant in other parts of the country, no one is forcing anyone to speak Welsh or forcing it on anyone in any way. But English IS forced on people like my in-laws, who have lived their entire lives through Welsh and surely should be able to do so wherever they go in the country. It is their life, their culture, and their heritage. And to those who complain about Welsh being a requirement for public employment, very few jobs specify that, only that if you do not speak the language you must be prepared to learn. Any job that needs Welsh to deal with Welsh speakers will offer lessons. Why should this not be the case, so that then you can deal with people like my in-laws and treat them with a modicum of respect?

 

[cholsey-choose]

I agree with nearly everything you say, but...

Any job that needs Welsh to deal with Welsh speakers will offer lessons.

I don't think that's true.

 

[Envoy]

You probably know this, but before digital TV, Channel 4 was replaced in wales with S4C (which literally means 'Welsh fourth channel'). Some English-language shows from C4 were on late at night.

Because the English speaking majority were stuck with S4C on terrestrial transmitters, most of those that could, put up aerials that could get signals from English transmitters. It is only since the advent of digital TV that Channel 4 has been available from Welsh transmitters. (Aerial installers seem now to be replacing the ‘English’ aerials with those pointing at Welsh transmitters - resulting in people in border aerials losing the option of having BOTH the Welsh based channels as well as those from England - which usually load in the low 800’s on Freeview).

When Sky started, it had the highest uptake in Wales as this was the only way people out of range of English transmitters could receive Channel 4. With rising fees for Sky, many went out and bought Freesat equipment. Unfortunately, since about last April, Channel 4HD has been removed from the EPG on Freesat making it impossible to set timer recordings for this channel. (The new boss of Channel 4 refuses to pay the fees). Goodness knows why a channel would force viewers to watch their programmes in the inferior SD? (It is possible to receive CH4 HD via Freesat if the boxes are tuned in in non-Freesat mode but you can’t set the timed recordings). Anyway, S4C HD seems to have no difficulty in paying the fees to Freesat!

 

[cholsey-choose]

Because the English speaking majority were stuck with S4C on terrestrial transmitters, most of those that could, put up aerials that could get signals from English transmitters. It is only since the advent of digital TV that Channel 4 has been available from Welsh transmitters. (Aerial installers seem now to be replacing the ‘English’ aerials with those pointing at Welsh transmitters - resulting in people in border aerials losing the option of having BOTH the Welsh based channels as well as those from England - which usually load in the low 800’s on Freeview).

That was not my experience. I lived in an area where you could fairly easily get an aerial installed to get Channel 4 (a Westward aerial?). Lots of people used to talk about doing it all the time, but I only know one or two people who actually got around to doing it.

When Sky started, it had the highest uptake in Wales

That's really interesting! Got a source for that? I would have thought the opposite, because Sky was expensive and Wales is not generally wealthy. (Though I guess satellite dishes have always been seen as a little trashy by the middle classes.)

 

[krus_aragon]

I can cope with most French signs, maybe because I'm not wasting time looking for the line in English somewhere below! I've got an O-level in French (and German and Russian.) Please tell us how many people in the world you think can cope with Welsh language road signs?

In contrary to the other languages you list, Welsh is a minority language. Minority languages are, by definition, spoken by a minority of residents in a location, and have an uphill struggle to start with, and are never going to win in a game of "how many people in the world can...".

A more relevant question might be: "how many people in the area can...", or "if we don't use/protect the language here where most of the native speakers are, where should it be used/protected?"

(There are more of these minority languages in the world than you may think: here's a video and another text list of those in Europe. As a speaker of Welsh and reasonably well educated about minority languages, I was surprised at how many I didn't know about.)

I've travelled into Wales for 40 years, had a Welsh-teaching mother-in-law (she said they had to invent the word "Nwy" for "Gas")

New words (or terms) are being invented in Welsh every week, but that's not unusual: new things (and English words for them, too) are being invented constantly. The word "nwy" (as a state of matter) was certainly invented, but the University of Wales Dictionary puts it at 1828, derived from the now rarely-used word "gwy" for water (see the river Wye for a surviving example), and I've seen it used in newspapers from the 1850s, where it was used for advertising pipes for gas lighting.

I wouldn't want to suggest that your mother-in-law was lying, nor that she is old enough to have been coining terms in the 19th century, but perhaps your mother-in-law was teaching science, knew of the term "nwy" for fuel gas from everyday experience, didn't know of the term for gas (as a state of matter), and adopted the word she knew (which happened to be the one already in use)? If so, she was following a path well-trodden by linguists, educators, and translators from many walks of life.

... have Welsh-speaking friends - and tried to learn it, as I said. I can make out the meaning of quite a few words, but to read a road sign in Welsh when driving is too much of a challenge...

I sympathise entirely with your situation: my mother moved to a Welsh speaking area after marrying, and never got to grips with the language as well as she'd have liked. (If someone came into her shop and asked for something in Welsh, she'd be able to understand what was requested and direct the individual in English, but wasn't confident at all as a speaker.)

With regard to road signs and signage in general, it is provided in English as well as Welsh for that reason. As for the extent of the signage, the borders of Wales make a sensible geographical area within which to do that. Assuming that you're not advocating going back to mono-lingual signage that was the subject of much protest in years past, one language or another will have to be placed in prominence. Until recently, each local council was free to specify which language came first on their roadsigns, a situation that I think would be confusing to visitors, seeing words or names swap over as they cross a county border. Now the policy is to have Welsh first on new signs, regardless of county (a matter objected to by some where the priority was the other way around).

There is a body of research on the tendency of non-speakers to scan past unfamiliar language in search of text they do recognise, and also that bilingual speakers (who outnumber monoglot Welsh completely) will latch on to the first language they recognise. I won't link to it now as this post is long enough already, but if you want some details just ask and I'll dig them out. On that scientific evidence putting the minority language first is the sensible choice. There are also political dimensions to the issue, and as I suggested earlier, if Wales does not give priority to the Welsh langauge, what country will?

 

[Envoy]

I have left off this until now, but honestly. If you have lived anywhere in Wales other than a few very anglicised ones and you have not managed to understand Welsh place names, traffic signs or similar you must be walking around with your eyes and ears closed. To those who go on about Welsh not being relevant in other parts of the country, no one is forcing anyone to speak Welsh or forcing it on anyone in any way. But English IS forced on people like my in-laws, who have lived their entire lives through Welsh and surely should be able to do so wherever they go in the country. It is their life, their culture, and their heritage. And to those who complain about Welsh being a requirement for public employment, very few jobs specify that, only that if you do not speak the language you must be prepared to learn. Any job that needs Welsh to deal with Welsh speakers will offer lessons. Why should this not be the case, so that then you can deal with people like my in-laws and treat them with a modicum of respect?

If your Welsh speaking in-laws wish to exercise their right to communicate in their mother tongue with everyone in Wales, then that is indeed forcing the Welsh language on the English speaking majority. They could for example, be travelling on a train between Cardiff and Merthyr - through an area with very few Welsh speakers. If that means that all the train staff must be Welsh speakers so that your in-laws can communicate, then that means that the English speaking majority would be discriminated against. Nobody has asked the English speakers whether or not they wish to become Welsh speakers. Most of the Welsh speakers that I know vote Plaid Cymru and do not wish to be a part of the UK. You will note that Plaid Cymru do not enjoy the level of support in Wales that the Scottish Nationalists have in Scotland. Could that be to do with the fact that in Scotland, the Gaelic language is no big deal and that practically everything is conducted in English?

If one were to go around churchyards in Wales looking at the graves going back hundreds of years, it would be possible to deduce the language of the area over a considerable time span. Go into Ceredigion or Gwynedd and Welsh on the gravestones is likely to predominate. Go to Cardiff or the Vale of Glamorgan or up through most of Powys (Breconshire/ Radnorshire) and English will be by far the predominant language.

 

[AndrewE]

I agree that the Welsh are quite entitled to use and indeed promote their language, I was just saying that (in the context of bilingual signs) that it can be very difficult to find the English bit you need when you are driving.
Sat down at leisure I can decipher and translate quite a lot of names. When we are "abroad" there isn't usually a second language to confuse us, except in Switzerland when there are at least 3 and sometimes more. Luckily I haven't needed to drive there, and French and German are a lot easier to cope with into the bargain!

 

[transmanche]

ps, just found this:
from https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/news-opinion/no-everyone-welsh-road-signs-14006685

You do realise that the article you quoted is entitled "No, everyone, Welsh road signs do not make you crash your car" and is a humourous riposte (i.e. it never happened) to people with your attitude to Welsh language signs?

 

[krus_aragon]

When we are "abroad" there isn't usually a second language to confuse us, except in Switzerland when there are at least 3 and sometimes more. Luckily I haven't needed to drive there, and French and German are a lot easier to cope with into the bargain!

I don't mean to argue or disagree at all, but I'm interested in why this may be the case. Do you feel you've had more exposure to these languages, or might it be because of the stronger linguistic relationship between these languages and English? (English being a Germanic language, and French being the language of Norman invaders.)

 

[transmanche]

My take on it is that if the Welsh recognise the importance of their tourist income (from all over the world as well as from within the UK), and have any concern at all about the safety of car drivers, then they will admit that the public good is not well served by putting a language first on road signs that means that most drivers have passed the sign before they have found a[n English] word that they recognise.

I suggest that you never visit the Gaeltacht areas of Ireland then, because road signs, etc are in Irish Gaelic only - without English translations.

However, being as most road signs are pictorial, everyone copes. If you can't work out what the Géill Slí sign below means, then you need to stop driving. It's no harder to work out than those in the rest of Ireland which say Yield - which is somewhat archaic English to our minds. No matter what language (or even if the sign is blank), if you drive you really should be able to recognise that the sign means Give Way.


Géill Slí by Bart Maguire, on Flickr

 

[J-Rod]

@CambrianCoast
If you'd bothered to read what I said properly, you might have realised I am Welsh.

Doofus.

 

[pemma]

I suggest that you never visit the Gaeltacht areas of Ireland then, because road signs, etc are in Irish Gaelic only - without English translations.

Any good guide book for Ireland will warn you of where you might see Irish language only signs and what they mean - public toilet doors, signs for the town/city centre and buses showing the Irish for town/city centre on their displays etc.

Portugal has exactly the same Stop signs as we have in the UK, even with the English word for Stop, presumably because they thought not confusing foreign tourists would improve road safety. However, that has caused confusion for Brazilian tourists who don't recognise the word on it.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

If your Welsh speaking in-laws wish to exercise their right to communicate in their mother tongue with everyone in Wales, then that is indeed forcing the Welsh language on the English speaking majority. They could for example, be travelling on a train between Cardiff and Merthyr - through an area with very few Welsh speakers. If that means that all the train staff must be Welsh speakers so that your in-laws can communicate, then that means that the English speaking majority would be discriminated against. Nobody has asked the English speakers whether or not they wish to become Welsh speakers. Most of the Welsh speakers that I know vote Plaid Cymru and do not wish to be a part of the UK. You will note that Plaid Cymru do not enjoy the level of support in Wales that the Scottish Nationalists have in Scotland. Could that be to do with the fact that in Scotland, the Gaelic language is no big deal and that practically everything is conducted in English?

If one were to go around churchyards in Wales looking at the graves going back hundreds of years, it would be possible to deduce the language of the area over a considerable time span. Go into Ceredigion or Gwynedd and Welsh on the gravestones is likely to predominate. Go to Cardiff or the Vale of Glamorgan or up through most of Powys (Breconshire/ Radnorshire) and English will be by far the predominant language.

It's absolutely nothing to do with "majority rule" as you seem to be suggesting. Just because there is more English in some areas does not mean Welsh should not be used for Welsh speakers minority or not.

Wales is a country , Welsh is our language and should be used not pushed out because of English speaking Majority.

Never heard so much rubbish in all my life, English speakers been discriminated against etc etc.

Luckily the Welsh language act will ensure we continue with Welsh and English as equal. As it should be.

 

[J-Rod]

*sigh* Round and round again, same old arguments fly in the face of reality. I could go on and give examples but I shan't bother.

There's no right answer, though there are some daft/rude people.

(I mean really, why should I care. I make money out of reversioning things into more than one language... including Welsh!)

*Unsubscribes from the whole forum as totally fed up with the pedants and internet warriors*

 

[transmanche]

Any good guide book for Ireland will warn you of where you might see Irish language only signs and what they mean - public toilet doors, signs for the town/city centre and buses showing the Irish for town/city centre on their displays etc.

I've never felt the need for a guide book when visiting Ireland. Good, or otherwise.

Portugal has exactly the same Stop signs as we have in the UK, even with the English word for Stop, presumably because they thought not confusing foreign tourists would improve road safety. However, that has caused confusion for Brazilian tourists who don't recognise the word on it.

Really, do you have a reliable source for that?

In Quebec, stop signs generally say 'Arrét'. But in France, they use 'Stop' - as do most countries in the world (or they use stop in both English and the local language). But I haven't heard about countless Québécois getting killed when visiting France because they misunderstood the sign.

I'm going to hazard a guess that this sign is in Arabic. I don't know for certain, but it looks bit like Arabic to me. However, I do know that it means 'Stop' because a) a red octagonal sign always means 'Stop', no matter what language is used on the sign and b) I am not an idiot.


Stop by ElectricSprout, on Flickr

 

[pemma]

Really, do you have a reliable source for that?

My source was hearing it off someone who used to work as a transport planner in Lisbon who left to set up his own company doing tours of Lisbon and Sintra. My guess is there's some Brazilians who choose to ignore it and then if they cause an accident or near miss they use a lack of knowledge of English as their excuse, opposed to poor driving.

 

[PeterC]

Perhaps the mods could move this down to General Discussion as everybody seems more interested in road signage than railway.

 

[transmanche]

My source was hearing it off someone who used to work as a transport planner in Lisbon who left to set up his own company doing tours of Lisbon and Sintra.

So a personal anecdote, no different to 'a bloke down the pub told me...'

 

[transmanche]

Perhaps the mods could move this down to General Discussion as everybody seems more interested in road signage than railway.

No, just using road signs to illustrate the point. What's valid for road signs also applies to station signs...

 

[WelshBluebird]

Are people really claiming they can't read road signs in Wales because they are bilingual? The vast vast majority of drivers in Wales do not miss turnings, or ignore traffic rules, etc etc, because they cannot read the signs, so I would suggest if you can't read them, then maybe you shouldn't be driving at all.

And the same applies to station signs as long as they are designed in a clear manner. If you really cannot tell where you are because the English place name is below the Welsh one in a different colour, then maybe you shouldn't be travelling on your own!

 

[pemma]

So a personal anecdote, no different to 'a bloke down the pub told me...'

You do realise which forum you're posting on? The one where most threads contain something said by a planner or member of train crew as the source.

 

[oglord]

Caerwysg Dewi Sant might be a step too far!

That is exactly what is used.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

There are no legal requirements on private companies (e.g. TOCs) within Wales to do business through the medium of Welsh, let alone outside of Wales: the law as it stands only applies to public bodies.

The nearest thing I can refer you to off-hand is the Guidelines for Standardizing Place-names in Wales, which may make interesting reading.


(P.S. If Piccadilly were to be transliterated(!), Piciadili would be a more likely form IMHO.)

Another Welsh bashing thread. It' been a while....

Surely this is discrimination against non-Welsh speakers? I'm amazed that public bodies in Wales can get away with turning down people, who are otherwise suitably qualified for jobs, just because they don't speak Welsh.
And politicians complain about a brain drain of talent leaving Wales!

And no, i'm not anti Welsh language, but I am against discriminating against non-Welsh speakers, who have lived in Wales their entire lives.
If you don't go to a Welsh medium primary school, and your family doesn't speak Welsh, your chances of ever being fluent in the language are close to zero. Which is the same for any language, unless you start learning it at a young age, you're unlikely to ever be able to properly pick it up to be fluent.

The disdain shown towards non-Welsh speaking Welsh citizens by fluent Welsh speakers doesn't help, such as your experience at the Eisteddfodd.

E we

Are people really claiming they can't read road signs in Wales because they are bilingual? The vast vast majority of drivers in Wales do not miss turnings, or ignore traffic rules, etc etc, because they cannot read the signs, so I would suggest if you can't read them, then maybe you shouldn't be driving at all.

And the same applies to station signs as long as they are designed in a clear manner. If you really cannot tell where you are because the English place name is below the Welsh one in a different colour, then maybe you shouldn't be travelling on your own!

TV
It has nothing to do with safety, nothing to do with ' that job that went to a Welsh speaker' ; nothing to do with S4C or any other TV Channel; nothing to do with railway signage. The LNWR used Welsh language signage as did other railway companies but I've never heard of a non Welsh speaker being killed or injured because they didn't understand that it was forbidden to trespass on the railway. English speakers are NOT discriminated against. English is everywhere, from Government publications to the US dominated internet. Those who complain about the Welsh language seem to have little or no idea of what a language is for. All languages enable people to communicate with one another, not just monoglot English speakers.

 

[krus_aragon]

And no, i'm not anti Welsh language, but I am against discriminating against non-Welsh speakers, who have lived in Wales their entire lives.
If you don't go to a Welsh medium primary school, and your family doesn't speak Welsh, your chances of ever being fluent in the language are close to zero. Which is the same for any language, unless you start learning it at a young age, you're unlikely to ever be able to properly pick it up to be fluent.

In relation to this, my preferred solution to decreasing numbers of Welsh-speakers due to immigration within the UK into Wales (which concerns me much more than immigration from the EU to the UK) is:

• Accepting the adults may not choose / be able to learn Welsh fluently
• Get the children into the language early: Welsh-medium education from primary age

The county of Gwynedd achieves this quite effectively: 95%+ (I forget the actual figure) of primary age children are taught through the medium of Welsh, including migrant children. All but one of the secondary schools are either mainly or wholly Welsh-medium (the exception being Friars School in Bangor, near the fully Welsh-medium Ysgol Tryfan).

This approach is not without its detractors. The local school my nieces attend (and my kids will attend) in Conwy county is officially an English-medium school with significant use of Welsh. A few years ago, the grandparent of a pupil there started writing letters of complaint to the school governors and local press loudly protesting against (his belief that) the school was being "transformed" into a Welsh-medium school. This was not the view of the parents, nor of the community as a whole, and I think the eventual result was the grandparent was eventually barred from the school grounds.

The disdain shown towards non-Welsh speaking Welsh citizens by fluent Welsh speakers doesn't help, such as your experience at the Eisteddfodd.

Absolutely. One can't tar everyone with the same brush, but I think because the Eisteddfod is one of few national cultural / social events that is dedicated to both Welsh language and culture, some people who regard it as a bastion of Welshness adopt a "siege mentality". (Of course, all minorities can naturally end up with a siege mentality.)

(I've attended over a dozen National Eisteddfods, and worked at several, often in a meet & greet role welcoming new visitors, which naturally includes many non-Welsh speakers. At launch, a minority responded to our bilingual t-shirts in a manner that mirrors the attitude of some UKIP (or BNP) supporters. I'm glad that I happened to be raised in a bilingual (and multicultural) household, and can consider various viewpoints on such matters.)

 

[Phil from Mon]

If your Welsh speaking in-laws wish to exercise their right to communicate in their mother tongue with everyone in Wales, then that is indeed forcing the Welsh language on the English speaking majority. They could for example, be travelling on a train between Cardiff and Merthyr - through an area with very few Welsh speakers. If that means that all the train staff must be Welsh speakers so that your in-laws can communicate, then that means that the English speaking majority would be discriminated against. Nobody has asked the English speakers whether or not they wish to become Welsh speakers. Most of the Welsh speakers that I know vote Plaid Cymru and do not wish to be a part of the UK. You will note that Plaid Cymru do not enjoy the level of support in Wales that the Scottish Nationalists have in Scotland. Could that be to do with the fact that in Scotland, the Gaelic language is no big deal and that practically everything is conducted in English?

If one were to go around churchyards in Wales looking at the graves going back hundreds of years, it would be possible to deduce the language of the area over a considerable time span. Go into Ceredigion or Gwynedd and Welsh on the gravestones is likely to predominate. Go to Cardiff or the Vale of Glamorgan or up through most of Powys (Breconshire/ Radnorshire) and English will be by far the predominant language.

No, it is NOT forcing them to use it, just see it, or hear it, no one says they have to use it themselves. And obviously no one is suggesting that every staff member who comes into contact with the public needs to be Welsh speaking, anywhere in Wales. BUT, if your job involves you regularly interacting with First-language Welsh speakers, in a Welsh area, then obviously you should be able to speak Welsh.

I know a great many Welsh speakers who do not vote Plaid, and even some who vote Tory! I also know a lot of English-speaking Plaid voters. Language defines your culture, not your politics, although for some it obviously does.

There was a map the other day showing the extent of the Welsh language areas and how they have decreased dramatically since the first census, it might surprise you. I will try to dig it out.

Are people really claiming they can't read road signs in Wales because they are bilingual? The vast vast majority of drivers in Wales do not miss turnings, or ignore traffic rules, etc etc, because they cannot read the signs, so I would suggest if you can't read them, then maybe you shouldn't be driving at all.

And the same applies to station signs as long as they are designed in a clear manner. If you really cannot tell where you are because the English place name is below the Welsh one in a different colour, then maybe you shouldn't be travelling on your own!

Quite right

It's absolutely nothing to do with "majority rule" as you seem to be suggesting. Just because there is more English in some areas does not mean Welsh should not be used for Welsh speakers minority or not.

Wales is a country , Welsh is our language and should be used not pushed out because of English speaking Majority.

Never heard so much rubbish in all my life, English speakers been discriminated against etc etc.

Luckily the Welsh language act will ensure we continue with Welsh and English as equal. As it should be.

Exactly

English speakers are NOT discriminated against. English is everywhere, from Government publications to the US dominated internet. Those who complain about the Welsh language seem to have little or no idea of what a language is for. All languages enable people to communicate with one another, not just monoglot English speakers.

Right again

In relation to this, my preferred solution to decreasing numbers of Welsh-speakers due to immigration within the UK into Wales (which concerns me much more than immigration from the EU to the UK) is:

• Accepting the adults may not choose / be able to learn Welsh fluently
• Get the children into the language early: Welsh-medium education from primary age

The county of Gwynedd achieves this quite effectively: 95%+ (I forget the actual figure) of primary age children are taught through the medium of Welsh, including migrant children. All but one of the secondary schools are either mainly or wholly Welsh-medium (the exception being Friars School in Bangor, near the fully Welsh-medium Ysgol Tryfan).

I’ve seen this on Anglesey. When I moved here in 1989 it was rare to hear Welsh spoken in shops and pubs in Beaumaris (an “English” town since the time of Edward I, when the local inhabitants were shipped out to Newborough). Now, anyone under about 25 working in these places will be pretty fluent. Hopefully this will spread to other areas as LEAs and parents realise that being bilingual is a huge advantage, and does not damage their kids’ education.

 

[gareth950]

Oh well, someone took notice (taken today)



All other lettering at the station, is in black in both languages. It was not like that before we started this thread!

 

[Phil from Mon]

Interestingly, Virgin West Coast Route C timetables are now available in either English or Welsh. I heard somewhere that their announcements are also goin bilingual soon.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Oh well, someone took notice (taken today)

View attachment 47810 View attachment 47812

All other lettering at the station, is in black in both languages. It was not like that before we started this thread!

What are the other signs like? "Ticket information", "over the bridge for.." etc, I can cope with place names done in this way but as a rule I do think using two distinct colours is better for both monolingual and bilingual speakers, especially if it's a big chunk of text.