5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[Highlandspring]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...itched-to-trains-to-ease-bike-crush-1-4755533

5x 153s are coming next summer according to this article in The Scotsman.

As exclusively revealed in post number 1 of this thread back in April

 

[GrimShady]

Microbuffet would be nice along with some additional seats.

 

[mde]

As exclusively revealed in post number 1 of this thread back in April

It's well known that Al Dalton is a reader of these forums… it's where he gets a lot of 'exclusives' from!

 

[HLE]

WSP on a 153? Bang goes the fun trying to stop in the autumn

 

[6Gman]

If there are 153s going spare I'd prefer them to be providing seats for passengers rather than space for bicycles ...

(Will the bikes spaces be chargeable?)

 

[GrimShady]

If there are 153s going spare I'd prefer them to be providing seats for passengers rather than space for bicycles ...

(Will the bikes spaces be chargeable?)

Extra luggage space is a must.

 

[InOban]

As the timetable exists, these units could only be added to the Oban - only trains. However I have heard hints of a timetable recast next year. This is a result of the completion of EGIP. At present WHL units also have 'turns' out to Stirling; in particular, the 15.30 arrival is needed for other duties before the 18.21 departure. From December?! these duties will end, and the sets will be exclusive to the WHL. It is possibly more non-portion trains are planned, to which a 153 could be attached in high season.

 

[northwichcat]

158s won't be doing over 75 on the WHL anyway, if and when they finally end up there.....fours years after the franchise started.

So will these 153s be put in the middle of 156s/158s or at the front/end which will effectively create a new class as the drivers will need to drive a 156/158 in one direction and a 153 on the return working?

 

[Intercity Exec]

So will these 153s be put in the middle of 156s/158s or at the front/end which will effectively create a new class as the drivers will need to drive a 156/158 in one direction and a 153 on the return working?

It won't make a difference where a 153 is in the mix from the point of view of traction training as 153 handling training wouldn't be required either way (same as 156 in terms of tread brakes, 5 position brake handle and 8 position throttle handle). Wherever in the formation you put the 153 the driver will need to understand all of the on board electronics, air system, component identification and other systems for fault finding purposes. Similarities with a 156 will make this fairly simple (although 153 electrical circuits are a little non standard!)

 

[jayah]

It won't make a difference where a 153 is in the mix from the point of view of traction training as 153 handling training wouldn't be required either way (same as 156 in terms of tread brakes, 5 position brake handle and 8 position throttle handle). Wherever in the formation you put the 153 the driver will need to understand all of the on board electronics, air system, component identification and other systems for fault finding purposes. Similarities with a 156 will make this fairly simple (although 153 electrical circuits are a little non standard!)

None of this sounds like a very good idea! A tiny fleet of 5 coaches requiring spares and training. Remove the toilets and just give them to Northern who must have a few crowded trains could use the extra 70 seats.

They are useless on their own except for jobs like Barton on Humber or Cardiff Bay as they have inadequate power and will lose time on 150 timings and inevitably break down somewhere remote and block the line to all traffic.

 

[NotATrainspott]

None of this sounds like a very good idea! A tiny fleet of 5 coaches requiring spares and training. Remove the toilets and just give them to Northern who must have a few crowded trains could use the extra 70 seats.

They are useless on their own except for jobs like Barton on Humber or Cardiff Bay as they have inadequate power and will lose time on 150 timings and inevitably break down somewhere remote and block the line to all traffic.

The fact they're going to ScotRail to carry around inanimate objects is a demonstration that no other operator in the UK is interested in them. The problems with 153s are greater than just their single-carriage existence. Transport Scotland want a test bed for the 15X replacement scenic fleet they'll be procuring in the 2020s, and the 153s are the best bet. If they only last a single summer before collapsing in a heap in rust then there's not much for anyone to get upset about.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fact they're going to ScotRail to carry around inanimate objects is a demonstration that no other operator in the UK is interested in them. The problems with 153s are greater than just their single-carriage existence. Transport Scotland want a test bed for the 15X replacement scenic fleet they'll be procuring in the 2020s, and the 153s are the best bet. If they only last a single summer before collapsing in a heap in rust then there's not much for anyone to get upset about.

I think that test bed could instead be found in South Wales (Or East Anglia, or more precisely the Matterhorn-Gotthard-Bahn or anywhere else that has the FLIRTs with the proper scenic-type windows) - there really is one manufacturer that stands head and shoulders above the rest in that regard

 

[James James]

None of this sounds like a very good idea! A tiny fleet of 5 coaches requiring spares and training. Remove the toilets and just give them to Northern who must have a few crowded trains could use the extra 70 seats.

They are useless on their own except for jobs like Barton on Humber or Cardiff Bay as they have inadequate power and will lose time on 150 timings and inevitably break down somewhere remote and block the line to all traffic.

There seem to be a lot of similarities between the 155 and 156. Certainly, they have the same engines and transmission, which is probably the hardest part to maintain.

 

[GrimShady]

So will these 153s be put in the middle of 156s/158s or at the front/end which will effectively create a new class as the drivers will need to drive a 156/158 in one direction and a 153 on the return working?

I would imagine they'll be tagged on at the end. It wouldn't create a new class at all, this operation is fairly common in Northern England.

 

[John R]

I don't get the negativity for what appears an innovative, quick to implement, and (one presumes) relatively cost effective way of increasing capacity on a route which appears to need it in the summer months. And one which is tailored for the specific tourist needs of the line. Yes, we'd all like shiny new trains on all our lines all the time, but the cost of that (and scrapping and replacing them every 10 years or so to ensure that they stay shiny and new) would be a poor use of the country's resources, so re-using older stock in an effective manner is to be applauded. (And I say that as someone who's local trains have just been replaced with Class 166's, not as someone about to benefit from brand new stock.)

 

[GrimShady]

I don't get the negativity for what appears an innovative, quick to implement, and (one presumes) relatively cost effective way of increasing capacity on a route which appears to need it in the summer months. And one which is tailored for the specific tourist needs of the line. Yes, we'd all like shiny new trains on all our lines all the time, but the cost of that (and scrapping and replacing them every 10 years or so to ensure that they stay shiny and new) would be a poor use of the country's resources, so re-using older stock in an effective manner is to be applauded. (And I say that as someone who's local trains have just been replaced with Class 166's, not as someone about to benefit from brand new stock.)

Neither do I considering we've had the same garbage for the last 30 years with the exception of some new seat covers!

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

My only observation would be that we now have an obsession with “keeping luggage in sight at all times”, with the days of large items like suitcases stowed away in the brake compartment long gone. So this will need a bit of thought if the hope is that seating space on the 156s isn’t going to still be filled up by bags.

May be less of a problem with bikes but do we need a whole coach for them?

Be interesting to see how it works in practice.

 

[The_Engineer]

My only observation would be that we now have an obsession with “keeping luggage in sight at all times”, with the days of large items like suitcases stowed away in the brake compartment long gone. So this will need a bit of thought if the hope is that seating space on the 156s isn’t going to still be filled up by bags.

May be less of a problem with bikes but do we need a whole coach for them?

Be interesting to see how it works in practice.

No one has said it's a whole coach for bikes. It's a carriage that will accommodate bikes and outdoor sport equipment. At most half a carriage I would have thought, with toilet removed and a good few seats retained. Still, we will all have to wait the final plans as it is clear that the consultation and design process for the actual final arrangement will go on for some time yet...….

 

[GrimShady]

Arent Mk4 DVTs/Class 43s still used for baggage?

What they need is the forward half to be bikes/luggage racks, then some seats and a microbuffet.

 

[jopsuk]

On East Coast at the moment, in normal operation:
the mark 4 DVT has space for seven bikes on something a bit like "sheffield stands"- ie level. They have confirmed that they can accomodate, with a little notice, tandems and some other non-standard cycles. From memory bike reservations are given as "coach P"
The HSTs carry bikes in the guards van part of the TGS. This takes three bikes, hanging by the front wheel, no non-standard cycles. Given as Coach A for reservations.

The Scotrail HSTs will take bikes for intermediate stations in a converted loo, that will be too small to cope with, for example, standard mountain bike handlebars (now typically 700mm wide) without issues. They've also sad they'll take end-to-end reservations in the power cars.

 

[xotGD]

If there are 153s going spare I'd prefer them to be providing seats for passengers rather than space for bicycles ...

(Will the bikes spaces be chargeable?)

Chargeable? You mean plug sockets for electric bikes?

 

[GrimShady]

I don't see why bikes should be chargeable considering luggage, golf bags, skis, buggies etc are not, and yes I have seen all of this and more crammed on to a miserable 156 with all the seats fully booked by coach parties many times.

 

[6Gman]

Chargeable? You mean plug sockets for electric bikes?

Great idea!

 

[NotATrainspott]

I think that test bed could instead be found in South Wales (Or East Anglia, or more precisely the Matterhorn-Gotthard-Bahn or anywhere else that has the FLIRTs with the proper scenic-type windows) - there really is one manufacturer that stands head and shoulders above the rest in that regard

The Stadler sets might be unusual in some respects like the variable floor height and articulation but their basic seating layout and interior features aren't that different to any other EMU or DMU. The 153s are an opportunity to test out special non-seating areas which might be well suited to scenic train use. Once the basic concept is tested successfully it'll be easier for Transport Scotland and/or private sector ROSCOs and TOC bidders to suggest similar or more drastic layout changes. You wouldn't want to procure a whole new fleet geared around an interior concept that hadn't ever been tested in service.

 

[mde]

Great idea!

While clearly not the OPs intent, there could actually be merit in exploring this - the Scottish Government is pushing electric bikes just now with a £1.3mn package.

 

[themiller]

Microbuffet would be nice along with some additional seats.

It beats me why the trains in this country can't be fitted with a vending machine for hot drinks like I found on the Rauma railway units in Norway.

 

[squizzler]

I think that there should also be a caged off area of the 153 for people travelling with animals to leave their pets. It wouldn't be known as a dogbox for nothing!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think that there should also be a caged off area of the 153 for people travelling with animals to leave their pets. It wouldn't be known as a dogbox for nothing!

You'd need to specify which animals are allowed though. Remember that fella in Wrexham who tried to take a horse on the train a few years back?

 

[Clansman]

It beats me why the trains in this country can't be fitted with a vending machine for hot drinks like I found on the Rauma railway units in Norway.

Because there's at seat catering on the vast majority of long distance services? If buffets are being phased out on the basis of cost then what's to say people will all of a sudden walk up to a vending machine instead?

 

[gsnedders]

Because there's at seat catering on the vast majority of long distance services? If buffets are being phased out on the basis of cost then what's to say people will all of a sudden walk up to a vending machine instead?

The difference is you don't need to pay someone to stand there for the entire journey, so you've already cut out what's probably the most expensive bit of running it.