5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[IanXC]

Would they cope with the Stranraer services? That might be a way to limit the number of crews that would need to do a conversion course.

 

[AMD]

Before we get carried away has anyone thought about trying to get a RETB box into the 'new' cab? There's currently not even any space for your brew!

 

[Down North]

Before we get carried away has anyone thought about trying to get a RETB box into the 'new' cab? There's currently not even any space for your brew!

The GA 153s used to have RETB before the East Suffolk line was resignalled, so it’s possible.

 

[222001]

This doesn't quite add up. The 9 Angel GWR 153s are due to be split between Northern (5 from May) and EMT (4 from July). So either the 5 going to Northern will only be with them until July, or there's been some confusion as to which leasing company is involved?

 

[158722]

This doesn't quite add up. The 9 Angel GWR 153s are due to be split between Northern (5 from May) and EMT (4 from July). So either the 5 going to Northern will only be with them until July, or there's been some confusion as to which leasing company is involved?

The plan as to which 153s were to stay with GWR a bit longer have been changed, with the Angel 9 leaving before the Porterbrook 5 - the opposite of the plan a few months ago! The 5 potential ones for ScotRail will therefore be the Porterbrook examples (325/329/333/361/369), when they can eventually be released due to the Turbo/GTi HST cascades.

As for their deployment in Scotland, perhaps inserting them in 156s to create 5 3-car sets for use on East Kilbride & Barrhead services is most likely and easiest to implement, perhaps freeing up a pair of 156s for use elsewhere.

 

[dp21]

I'd be surprised to see many 153s running around on their own due to the PRM requirements. The UAT toilet would take up a fair quantity of the seating capacity.

Last I heard was a combination of considerations from the Roscos including permanently attaching to 156s as "scenic coaches" but also re-formatting back to 155s. There just isn't the business case to PRM them as one-cars.

 

[222001]

The plan as to which 153s were to stay with GWR a bit longer have been changed, with the Angel 9 leaving before the Porterbrook 5 - the opposite of the plan a few months ago! The 5 potential ones for ScotRail will therefore be the Porterbrook examples (325/329/333/361/369), when they can eventually be released due to the Turbo/GTi HST cascades.

Indeed, it's just that the original post said Angel leasing, hence my confusion.

 

[Highlandspring]

I was told they were coming off lease from Angel but it’s entirely possible that this information has been mixed up on the way to me and they’re actually Porterbrook units. If that’s the case I’m sorry for the confusion, I posted in good faith. As I understand it there are 5 class 153s being transferred to Scotland from GWR during July this year and that’s all I know at this stage.

 

[northwichcat]

The same person who posted on wnxx that he sent data on 153s to Northern and it's been agreed which ones will transfer has since said 'some will need converting to take bagpipes.' He also said he had no information about 153s going to EMT.

 

[222001]

I was told they were coming off lease from Angel but it’s entirely possible that this information has been mixed up on the way to me and they’re actually Porterbrook units. If that’s the case I’m sorry for the confusion, I posted in good faith. As I understand it there are 5 class 153s being transferred to Scotland from GWR during July this year and that’s all I know at this stage.

No need to apologise, I was just wondering.

 

[222001]

The same person who posted on wnxx that he sent data on 153s to Northern and it's been agreed which ones will transfer has since said 'some will need converting to take bagpipes.' He also said he had no information about 153s going to EMT.

It does make me question the validity of the EMT transfer. All I've heard is 'it's been confirmed internally'. Nothing really solid at the moment.

 

[hexagon789]

How about, no . 153s to ScotRail is almost worse than Pacers, I think they should go to EMT, Northern or ATW instead

 

[433N]

Well, I suppose 5 x 153 would cover one E&G diagram ... bit short-formed though.

 

[gingertom]

Well, I suppose 5 x 153 would cover one E&G diagram ... bit short-formed though.

timekeeping would be a bit poorly too.

 

[northwichcat]

How about, no . 153s to ScotRail is almost worse than Pacers, I think they should go to EMT, Northern or ATW instead

Transport Scotland obviously disagree, they forbid the Scotrail franchise from using railbuses that aren't properly bogied - that doesn't just apply to Pacers but would also apply to any new railbuses, if any new ones were built.

 

[hexagon789]

Transport Scotland obviously disagree, they forbid the Scotrail franchise from using railbuses that aren't properly bogied - that doesn't just apply to Pacers but would also apply to any new railbuses, if any new ones were built.

Thank God for that, I think that under BR the Scottish Region also vetoed using Pacers after the 140 was tested on the Cumbernauld line.

I think that with the current short-forming issues, using single-car units is asking for problems.

 

[northwichcat]

I think that with the current short-forming issues, using single-car units is asking for problems.

Given they have to return 10 x 156s, 8 x 158s and 16 x 170s this year (some of which have already been returned) and all but 5 of the 156s have been leased to Northern if Scotrail need anything temporary due to new stock being late, covering refurbishments etc. then it's probably 153s or nothing. Given how Scotrail secured those 8 x 158s in the first place don't expect English TOCs to play nice and sublease units back to you if your replacement units aren't ready in time!

 

[hexagon789]

Given they have to return 10 x 156s, 8 x 158s and 16 x 170s this year (some of which have already been returned) and all but 5 of the 156s have been leased to Northern if Scotrail need anything temporary due to new stock being late, covering refurbishments etc. then it's probably 153s or nothing. Given how Scotrail secured those 8 x 158s in the first place don't expect English TOCs to play nice and sublease units back to you if your replacement units aren't ready in time!

Mmm, well I do see your point. When you put it like that in black and white, the 153s do indeed suddenly become a worthwhile proposition.

 

[theblackwatch]

Thank God for that, I think that under BR the Scottish Region also vetoed using Pacers after the 140 was tested on the Cumbernauld line.

Class 143s operated on the Bathgate line for a few weeks when it was first re-opened. See a pic at https://www.flickr.com/photos/66289212@N07/15051426567

 

[Jonny]

Surely it is better to sub-lease a couple of 156s and/or 158s (or maybe a 3-car 158 and a 2-car) from Northern than have an additional class on the books (with the associated paperwork etc.).

 

[td97]

Surely it is better to sub-lease a couple of 156s and/or 158s (or maybe a 3-car 158 and a 2-car) from Northern than have an additional class on the books (with the associated paperwork etc.).

But Northern have the leases for the 156/158, and Scotrail don't. So they have to make do with what's available. And Northern are in no situation to sub-lease their units to Scotland with the amount of short-formations on their network

 

[Jonny]

But Northern have the leases for the 156/158, and Scotrail don't. So they have to make do with what's available. And Northern are in no situation to sub-lease their units to Scotland with the amount of short-formations on their network

Fair point, ideally Northern would keep the lot. Especially since Scotrail are getting the refurbished HSTs and the class 385s...

 

[hexagon789]

Class 143s operated on the Bathgate line for a few weeks when it was first re-opened. See a pic at https://www.flickr.com/photos/66289212@N07/15051426567

I'd rather have that nice Mk3 set thanks!

But, I knew about the 140 being tested up here but not about the 143s to Bathgate, most interesting.

 

[380101]

Would they cope with the Stranraer services? That might be a way to limit the number of crews that would need to do a conversion course.

Would need to train over 100 drivers and 30 guards on them to just cover the Stranraer route. Again, a single unit down there wouldn't be ideal due to the amount of gradients and single line. A failed sprinter down the Stranraer line causes major headaches.

 

[LowLevel]

It does make me question the validity of the EMT transfer. All I've heard is 'it's been confirmed internally'. Nothing really solid at the moment.

4 Angel class 153s to transfer to EMT 'early July'. 5 Angel class 153s to transfer to Northern from May. 5 Porterbrook 153s to transfer to ScotRail 'at some stage'. Ironically the Porterbrook sets bar one are all ex Central Trains bar one to the same spec as the bulk of the EM fleet but never mind!

 

[whhistle]

The 170s go when the lease is up regardless - 6 in July and 6 in November. Also you remember the rumour earlier in the year about 153s coming to ScotRail...? Well apparently there are definitely 5 coming from GWR (Angel Leasing) in July to run about with 156s.

EMT should take on some 170s to replace their 158s or 156s and send thos eup to Scotland instead.
Creating a bit more of a common fleet of trains for both operators, assuming the Stansted to Birmingham and Leicester to Birmingham will transfer from XC to EMT.

 

[Domh245]

EMT should take on some 170s to replace their 158s or 156s and send thos eup to Scotland instead.
Creating a bit more of a common fleet of trains for both operators, assuming the Stansted to Birmingham and Leicester to Birmingham will transfer from XC to EMT.

The 170s are going to Northern. It won't create a common fleet at all for EMT, who aren't due to take over either of those routes soon, certainly not within the timescale of the 170s being released from Scotrail.

 

[jimm]

Would need to train over 100 drivers and 30 guards on them to just cover the Stranraer route. Again, a single unit down there wouldn't be ideal due to the amount of gradients and single line. A failed sprinter down the Stranraer line causes major headaches.

And the number of passengers carried between Ayr and Girvan in particular. A 153 would be far too small much of the time.

 

[dk1]

The GA 153s used to have RETB before the East Suffolk line was resignalled, so it’s possible.

Yeah that's correct. The RETB equipment was fitted in the top right hand corner of the cab. Anglia had seven 153s.

 

[pt_mad]

Where will the West Midlands Railway 153s be going? Understand they will receive 172s by December timetable to replace them?