northwichcat
Veteran Member
If what a RMT member posted on Twitter is true the deal on Anglia involves having guards on trains operating under DOO.
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Arriva Rail North DOO
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If what a RMT member posted on Twitter is true the deal on Anglia involves having guards on trains operating under DOO.
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RailUK Forums
Every hour you pay as overtime or staff is an increase. That does not lower staff costs.
100s of staff all working overtime....
With the introduction of the OBS grade it effectively gives you control over your costs. There is no need for any additional hours in overtime or additional staff as they don't ever need to cover work. If there is no staff then the trains can still run. You just wiped out your overtime requirement.
You can also introduce the grade at a significantly lower salary and with less benefits. It's an untrained, unqualified role; so you can pay less. You can also have new entrants on different contracts and different pension options. Making it cheaper even further.
The other option; the paranoid and cynical option. Is that you can introduce a role that is already surplus to requirement. Under-staff it and then slowly reduce it and then remove it at a later date.
Pretty sure I didn't.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
My mistake it was @OxtedSignaller who suggested that.
So there should be the opportunity to remove that issue at the same time and only require staff to work overtime in exceptional circumstances - I'm not saying Northern's plan is to do that but the option is there.
OxtedSignaller
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That is not the case on GTR Southern if the work is simply left uncovered the train is cancelled.
Which is the important difference with what the ultimate goal is and where they need to push the introduction of DOO. 'Can the trains run if the OBS/Second member of staff turns is available'
Killingworth
Established Member
Is this genuine news? It doesn't seem to have been reported elsewhere, or has it? Good news if it is.
Yes it is genuine. Whilst not top secret information, I'm not aware of any public news releases on the matter and there probably won't be until a date for talks has been set or possibly once talks have taken place. Remember the only agreement is for talks, i am not aware that either side has changed their position on DOO although there is more pressure on Northern to resolve to issue as they will soon have to involve ASLEF and they've been getting some pretty negative press lately or it could simply be a strategy by Northern to delay more strike action.
Our LDC guys were telling us the next strike action is for 6 consecutive Saturdays in July/ August. This is probably why talks have been announced. As I have mentioned before , strike days have in effect become rest days for us, and 6 summer Saturdays would be very welcome for some staff
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Let me think off the top of my head that would disrupt the RHS Tatton Show, Manchester Pride, Liverpool International Music Festival, racing at numerous racecourses, the opening weekends of the new Premier League season and I imagine various other events as well.
I wonder if this longer series of strikes will do any good or the talks will be fruitful I doubt it but we can live in hope.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
That's the Saturday of the RHS Tatton Show and Liverpool International Music Festival.
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Yep it's as moonshot advised. Looks like it will be Saturday strikes for a few weeks now.
For what it's worth, "the media" has been totally quiet on this - in the past this would have been reported by the Manchester Evening News and BBC Web sites, yet I see nothing yet (4 hours after the post I quote). I get a feeling that the strikes are becoming "normal" and increasingly not noticed. It also seems that the strike day limited services are seen by some as more reliable than the timetabled service since the latest timetable change. I sense increasing indifference to the cause behind the strikes. Which is a shame, because it will lead to trains being run without anyone on board in charge of the passengers, which I do not personally want to see.
northernchris
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So, is the focus on Saturday strikes because commuters have now become accustomed to the strike timetables and it's losing it's impact or is it more to disrupt the managers as they will be the ones who end up working the trains? It would be useful to see if staff opinion has shifted throughout the campaign particularly given the number of new recruits
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Granada Reports didn't mention it today despite doing a report on Northern. Last time they mentioned the strikes in one sentence after doing a report on the failed May timetable implementation.
Reportedly a Lancashire paper has picked up on it but are focusing more on whether they'll strike on future Saturdays when big events are on in Lancs.
Reportedly a Lancashire paper has picked up on it but are focusing more on whether they'll strike on future Saturdays when big events are on in Lancs.
According to Northern press release regarding latest strike talks will take place early next week.
Killingworth
Established Member
It does have the air of becoming the new normal which is perhaps why news coverage has started to shrink. If we define news as "that which is new," constant and repeated one-day strikes are no longer "new".
Passengers have becomed accustomed to working around strikes and, as said above, accustomed to strike timetables being an improvement on normal timetables, so in a weird way, the RMT have ended up giving Northern a helping hand!
Passengers have becomed accustomed to working around strikes and, as said above, accustomed to strike timetables being an improvement on normal timetables, so in a weird way, the RMT have ended up giving Northern a helping hand!
That is good news as will at the very least mean the strikes may end up being postponed. However I dont understand why they are agreeing to meaningful talks. I cant see how Northern can back down. DOO is in the contract. If they could then why the heck has it taken 20 days of strike action to get to this point! If they cant then I dont see why they should bother and just put up with strikes till DOO is implemented.
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
Unless the RMT are willing to accept person trained to guard standard on every train but with driver doing the doors.
Bromley boy
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
Strike timetable an improvement on a normal one? Can you give examples of routes which get more services on a strike day than a normal one?
If you mean better reliability and punctuality on a strike day then surely that benefits Northern more than passengers as they'll get fewer Delay Repay claims. As a passenger I don't see the benefit of having a 7am running on time, with the next service at 9am if I usually catch an 8am train.
I wish I was manager of Northern I could do a better job, well anyone could really. But alas no its just a typo. I have since corrected it.
Overspeed110
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So you believe that ASLEF ( When they inevitably get involved in this mess) will roll over and accept DOO?
I don't.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
ASLEF have a history of rejecting DOO initially but eventually giving in if enough incentives are thrown in.
Yes as DOO has been implemented on some parts of the rail network presumably with support from both the RMT and ASLEF.
OxtedSignaller
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I do. Where has this big misconception come from that ASLEF are the DOO Gods so to speak and would not ever allow such a thing to happen. I am afraid they have form for it.
Exactly why would they be opposed to DOO. If you look at the reality, rather than the bunkum that RMT put out about "concern for our safety". Its about the future of the guard role. They know the guard is guaranteed for the life of the franchise but what they do know is that in future there will be less and less guards employed. So the only people losing out to DOO is the RMT Union itself as it relies on guard membership. Hence why its opposed to DOO. Aslef is the drivers union so their membership will be not affected.
Eccles1983
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Nonsense.
The added responsibilty means we will be affected.
And saying "aslef have rolled over before" is very misleading. On lines that already had doo they had little room to oppose.
Up here there is no doo on any lines with regarding to passenger carriage. It's worlds away from down south.
Yours, ASLEF member in the North.
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