Travelling with an incorrect ticket

[NC2193]

Hi

I am hoping for advice on how to deal with a matter regarding travelling with an incorrect ticket which occurred yesterday.

Yesterday, in a stupid drunk mistake (which I wholeheartedly now regret) I tried to complete a northern train journey with a ticket from a previous journey.

The revenue inspector took my details and I provided him with my previous address which I used to live at.

I now realise the seriousness of this error and was hoping for some advice. I am presuming the initial letter will be a request for my version of the events which I will need to reply to in the hope of resolving this as soon as possible.

However, should I contact my TOC and advise them of the address they should send any correspondence to? Or should I just try and collect any correspondence from my previous address?

How long does it normally take for the initial correspondence to be received?

Any guidance you could provide would be very helpful as this was incredibly out of my character and I am now struggling to focus on everyday things and just want to clear my error.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

One possible solution would be simply to obtain mail redirection from Royal Mail, for at least 6 months or so. Then update Northern and tell them of your new address.

 

[NC2193]

Thanks for the suggestion.

I moved from my previous address more than 6 months ago so I am unable to redirect it.

Will changing the correspondence address on the phone give them the opportunity to prosecute for providing false details? It is really playing on my mind so just want to resolve it as soon as soon as possible but don’t want to make things worse

 

[najaB]

How long does it normally take for the initial correspondence to be received?

Typically two to four weeks, however the TOC has up to six months to lay papers in Court, so the initial correspondence to you might be a summons in December.

However, should I contact my TOC and advise them of the address they should send any correspondence to? Or should I just try and collect any correspondence from my previous address?

Yes, you should advise them of the change of address. But also check to see if correspondence is going to your old address as sometimes wires do get crossed.

 

[NC2193]

Could anyone please offer guidance on how to approach the situation?

I am incredibly worried about what might arise from this (ie prosecution and criminal record) which could seriously impact on my professional career. I am struggling to focus on daily tasks.

What is the likelihood of Northern pursuing prosecution? This is the first incident of any such kind (and will certainly be the last). Do you think it’s advisable to contact Northern by phone in advance of receiving any initial letter?

 

[Clip]

First of all stop worrying. you cant undo what has been done and you dont want to make yourself ill over this.

For a first offence theres every chance a monetary penalty will be all that Northern will ask for so id just go about your daily business and await the letter from them reply apologising and offer to pay the fare due and admin costs and then if they accept it then pay and move on.

if they dont then come back again for advice on how to proceed wih whatever they say they are going ro do with you.

 

[6Gman]

Could anyone please offer guidance on how to approach the situation?

I am incredibly worried about what might arise from this (ie prosecution and criminal record) which could seriously impact on my professional career. I am struggling to focus on daily tasks.

What is the likelihood of Northern pursuing prosecution? This is the first incident of any such kind (and will certainly be the last). Do you think it’s advisable to contact Northern by phone in advance of receiving any initial letter?

First suggestion - notify them of your new/current address.

Second suggestion - wait for them to contact you.

Third suggestion - reply with an appropriate response, the details of which will depend on the letter they send you.

 

[NC2193]

Thanks for the response.

What is Northern’s approach to accepting out of court settlements? I appreciate it is probably case dependant but I was in the wrong and am worried there will now be no consideration at all?

 

[NC2193]

First of all stop worrying. you cant undo what has been done and you dont want to make yourself ill over this.

For a first offence theres every chance a monetary penalty will be all that Northern will ask for so id just go about your daily business and await the letter from them reply apologising and offer to pay the fare due and admin costs and then if they accept it then pay and move on.

if they dont then come back again for advice on how to proceed wih whatever they say they are going ro do with you.

Given I tried to travel without a ticket, and stupidly showed them an old one in panic, from what I can gather on here it is likely that they will try to proceed with prosecution? I appreciate I need to wait for the initial letter but I think it’s unlikely I will receive a fine straight away.

Does apologising in the reply letter jeapordise any future position in court? Ie if they refuse an out of court settlement but I have admitted to the wrongdoing (which I am fully intending to do by the way).

 

[najaB]

What is Northern’s approach to accepting out of court settlements?

Each case is judged on its own merits. Northern aren't unknown to settle out of court, but they also do prosecute - at a rough guess about 70/30 in favour of settling.

I appreciate I need to wait for the initial letter but I think it’s unlikely I will receive a fine straight away.

Not unlikely: impossible. A fine is imposed by the Court after you have been found guilty.

Does apologising in the reply letter jeapordise any future position in court?

Only if you intend on pleading not guilty.

 

[NC2193]

Each case is judged on its own merits. Northern aren't unknown to settle out of court, but they also do prosecute - at a rough guess about 70/30 in favour of settling.Not unlikely: impossible. A fine is imposed by the Court after you have been found guilty.Only if you intend on pleading not guilty.

Thank you najaB, your replies are greatly appreciated.

I assume Northern have prosecuted first time offenders in the past? Is there any sort of offences which they take a greater stance against?

As mentioned in the OP, I was drunk when I tried to board without a ticket. I appreciate this is not a valid excuse at all but is it something worth mentioning?

 

[scrapy]

Yes Northern do prosecute first time offenders. However they are far more likely to settle for a first time offenders than a repeat offender. They are also more likely to settle if

1) the offender is cooperative, apologetic and responds promptly to correspondence.
2) they were cooperative with their employee/contractor who reported the offence
3) correct name and address details were given first time

They are unlikely to settle out of court if the person reporting the offence mentioned in their report that the offender was in any way threatening or abusive.

Without knowing anymore details it's not possible to advise further but if it was simply an out of date ticket then settlement for an out of date ticket is likely. If an out of date address was used It may be worth contacting Northern to amend these details. There is no need to mention that the details given were incorrect at the time, and shows your willingness to cooperate.

 

[NC2193]

Yes Northern do prosecute first time offenders. However they are far more likely to settle for a first time offenders than a repeat offender. They are also more likely to settle if

1) the offender is cooperative, apologetic and responds promptly to correspondence.
2) they were cooperative with their employee/contractor who reported the offence
3) correct name and address details were given first time

They are unlikely to settle out of court if the person reporting the offence mentioned in their report that the offender was in any way threatening or abusive.

Without knowing anymore details it's not possible to advise further but if it was simply an out of date ticket then settlement for an out of date ticket is likely. If an out of date address was used It may be worth contacting Northern to amend these details. There is no need to mention that the details given were incorrect at the time, and shows your willingness to cooperate.

Thanks for the reply.

I was rushing for a train and didn’t have a ticket for that journey. When asked to show a ticket, in complete panic I displayed a ticket from a previous date (this was obviously not going to be accepted).

I didn’t really say much as I was being questioned due to panic but I did give ID when requested and explained that the address on the ID was no longer my home address as the ID was obtained some years ago. In panic, the address I gave was my previous address (not the one on the ID) which was registered on the electoral register. I have subsequently rang Northern and asked to change the correspondence address to my current address. Could this be classed as providing false information, given it was an address I used to reside at?

I did ask for the officers name after questioning as I anticipated I may need it in any letter (which no longer appears to be the case) so hopefully this won’t be viewed as ‘threatening’?

I’m still incredibly anxious about the whole situation. Is there no benefit at all to contacting them to discuss a settlement before any letter ie it at least shows my intention to be cooperative?

 

[NC2193]

Also, do you think it’s worth registering my current address on the electoral register (I know I should do this anyway!).

I have informed Northern that my current address should be used for correspondence. Do they perform checks on the addresses provided or just issue the initial letter to the address on file?

I’m just trying to ensure it is as easy as possible without causing anymore problems as I am worried that if I do change the electoral register address, that then won’t match that address initially given.

 

[island]

Just to observe that if the ID you gave was a driving licence that didn’t show your current address, you have committed a further offence. You’re legally required to keep the DVLA informed of your correct address and surrender your licence in exchange for a new one whenever you move.

 

[NC2193]

Just to observe that if the ID you gave was a driving licence that didn’t show your current address, you have committed a further offence. You’re legally required to keep the DVLA informed of your correct address and surrender your licence in exchange for a new one whenever you move.

Thank you for the information. It was a provisional licence, although I’m not sure this makes a difference? I am hoping this is something Northern won’t try and prosecute?

Do you think it’s worth speaking to a solicitor in advance of receiving any correspondence from Northern?

 

[shredder1]

Yes it applies to provisional also

https://www.gov.uk/change-address-driving-licence

 

[island]

Northern won’t prosecute you for failing to update the address on your licence, but you should do so without further ado regardless.

 

[K12r]

“Just to observe that if the ID you gave was a driving licence that didn’t show your current address, you have committed a further offence. You’re legally required to keep the DVLA informed of your correct address and surrender your licence in exchange for a new one whenever you move.”

Mate - you didn’t commit any offence by producing that driving licence to a railway employee. You should notify DVLA of change of address but a late notification will have no ramifications

 

[Fare-Cop]

“Just to observe that if the ID you gave was a driving licence that didn’t show your current address, you have committed a further offence. You’re legally required to keep the DVLA informed of your correct address and surrender your licence in exchange for a new one whenever you move.”

Mate - you didn’t commit any offence by producing that driving licence to a railway employee. You should notify DVLA of change of address but a late notification will have no ramifications

K12r is of course correct in that showing the old address on your drivers licence to a RAIL employee was not an offence in relation to the invalid drivers licence, but can be considered to be evidence of intent to avoid a fare by giving a false address.

It is both possible and likely that you will be traced from the old details that you have given, even if you did not give your proper address.

Providing a false address to rail staff when you commit any other offence in relation to failure to show a valid ticket (an offence that is a breach of Byelaw) or avoiding the proper fare (an offence contrary to Sect.5(3) of the Regulation of Railways Act) does make the matter more serious.

You might consider that having given a false address ie; one that is not yours and that you left more than six months ago, makes it likely that you will get away with the offence, but don’t be surprised if you do receive correspondence and ultimately, more than one Summons.

 

[NC2193]

K12r is of course correct in that showing the old address on your drivers licence to a RAIL employee was not an offence in relation to the invalid drivers licence, but can be considered to be evidence of intent to avoid a fare by giving a false address.

It is both possible and likely that you will be traced from the old details that you have given, even if you did not give your proper address.

Providing a false address to rail staff when you commit any other offence in relation to failure to show a valid ticket (an offence that is a breach of Byelaw) or avoiding the proper fare (an offence contrary to Sect.5(3) of the Regulation of Railways Act) does make the matter more serious.

You might consider that having given a false address ie; one that is not yours and that you left more than six months ago, makes it likely that you will get away with the offence, but don’t be surprised if you do receive correspondence and ultimately, more than one Summons.

Thanks for the reply.

I did contact Northern at the first opportunity to provide them with my current address, in the interest of co-operating and settling the matter as soon as possible.

I am hoping that seeing as I gave a previous address, ie one where I could still obtain correspondence, the offence is less severe than providing a fake address.

Is there a ‘type’ of case Northern tend not to settle out of court, for example multiple offences/ignoring notices etc?