Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[jon0844]

Five Guys is something else that is a decent enough idea in the USA but I have no idea how it has expanded so much in the UK and manages to survive! They always seem empty which isn't a surprise considering the prices charged! Granted the food is reasonable but you're approaching sit down restaurant prices!

That's probably why. The profit margins must be huge. It's why McDonald's introduced the Signature range to bump up prices considerably.

Five Guys must do a lot of research into locations, as they are popular in trendy districts where people aren't going to be seen dead in a McDonald's. McDonald's is the Android or Windows of the food world, while Five Guys is Apple or Tesla.

Get it wrong and open up somewhere like Stevenage town centre and you're going to probably struggle.

 

[Dai Corner]

That's probably why. The profit margins must be huge. It's why McDonald's introduced the Signature range to bump up prices considerably.

Five Guys must do a lot of research into locations, as they are popular in trendy districts where people aren't going to be seen dead in a McDonald's. It's the Android or Windows of the food world, while Five Guys is Apple or Tesla.

Get it wrong and open up somewhere like Stevenage town centre and you're going to probably struggle.

You could be right about Five Guys. There was an announcement that they were opening in unfashionable Newport but it never happened.

 

[jon0844]

You could be right about Five Guys. There was an announcement that they were opening in unfashionable Newport but it never happened.

It's a continuation of the fad for burger chains where you pay about £8 for a plain burger and add stuff on top, then add fries, then add a drink. The layout of the restaurant isn't substantially different to a McDonald's or Burger King, but you're convinced that the burgers are far higher quality. I don't deny they probably are tastier, but you're paying a hefty premium.

These places can work well when people have a nice level of disposable income, but we're already seeing many chain restaurants starting to suffer with many reducing their estates.

So far there doesn't seem to be a sign of coffee shops struggling, but I expect they've enjoyed good profit margins for years and in some cases clever accounting to avoid tax. But surely the high street can't sustain all of them either? I suppose it's more that people go for a coffee and a cake to sit for an hour or two chatting, so it's more a social thing. That and using it as a mobile office as I've done numerous times (not bad to have your own desk, often a power socket, Wi-Fi and all for the cost of a latte or coke).

Something you can't so easily afford to do going to a restaurant, where you would be expected to eat, pay and leave.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Five Guys is something else that is a decent enough idea in the USA but I have no idea how it has expanded so much in the UK and manages to survive! They always seem empty which isn't a surprise considering the prices charged! Granted the food is reasonable but you're approaching sit down restaurant prices!

Well 5 Guys is pretty much a sit down restaurant just with the ability to take your food away. Althought it is expensive, it's worth the almost double McDonalds prices (and pitched against maccy's, better value for money IMO).

 

[bnm]

At least Five Guys use Sesame Seed burger buns.

Any burger joint, restaurant, gastro pub that offers only Brioche (trendy my arse) for their burgers doesn't get my custom. Just wrong. They are far too sweet and eggy. Stop it now.

 

[yorksrob]

It's a continuation of the fad for burger chains where you pay about £8 for a plain burger and add stuff on top, then add fries, then add a drink. The layout of the restaurant isn't substantially different to a McDonald's or Burger King, but you're convinced that the burgers are far higher quality. I don't deny they probably are tastier, but you're paying a hefty premium.

These places can work well when people have a nice level of disposable income, but we're already seeing many chain restaurants starting to suffer with many reducing their estates.

So far there doesn't seem to be a sign of coffee shops struggling, but I expect they've enjoyed good profit margins for years and in some cases clever accounting to avoid tax. But surely the high street can't sustain all of them either? I suppose it's more that people go for a coffee and a cake to sit for an hour or two chatting, so it's more a social thing. That and using it as a mobile office as I've done numerous times (not bad to have your own desk, often a power socket, Wi-Fi and all for the cost of a latte or coke).

Something you can't so easily afford to do going to a restaurant, where you would be expected to eat, pay and leave.

The one thing that Burger King is still quite good at is making burgers. In fact I prefer theirs to a lot of the premium restaurants which are overpriced - that's when I haven't given up queuing.

 

[jon0844]

I do really like their burgers too. Didn't like their king fries when they did them, but otherwise I do like the chain. It's just the price that puts me off, and in some cases cleanliness.

My local branch is always dirty, even when nearly empty, which puts me off. The drive through is also incredibly slow. It does seem at times as if they do everything to stop people going there!

 

[yorksrob]

I do really like their burgers too. Didn't like their king fries when they did them, but otherwise I do like the chain. It's just the price that puts me off, and in some cases cleanliness.

My local branch is always dirty, even when nearly empty, which puts me off. The drive through is also incredibly slow. It does seem at times as if they do everything to stop people going there!

Yes, I suspect thats a lot to do with the lack of staffing.

 

[FQTV]

That's probably why. The profit margins must be huge. It's why McDonald's introduced the Signature range to bump up prices considerably.

Five Guys must do a lot of research into locations, as they are popular in trendy districts where people aren't going to be seen dead in a McDonald's. McDonald's is the Android or Windows of the food world, while Five Guys is Apple or Tesla.

Get it wrong and open up somewhere like Stevenage town centre and you're going to probably struggle.

It’s perhaps worth noting that, in the UK, Five Guys is 50% ‘owned’ by Charles Dunstone, the founder of Carphone Warehouse and Talk Talk.

Owned can be used by the media to mean several things, however, and in many cases really means that the person or entity referred-to is a backer or an investor. If the person or entity has a level of credibility themselves, then they can be used as a magnet to attract other investors.

Basically, then, you can find that the real money is from venture capitalists and fund managers. It’s very common in food & beverage, most notably when the ‘magnet’ has their name above the door too - witness Jamie Oliver, Marco Pierre White etc. In other sectors, this is exactly what Richard Branson does - aggregates investments and puts his face in for the odd photo shoot, but has nothing operationally to do with the business, other than charging a branding fee.

The key thing is that, regularly, it’s a low-risk strategy for the folks at the top of the pyramid. Everyone might make a packet, but if the business fails, they have exceptionally limited liability - they don’t have large numbers of well-paid, contracted employees; they’ll use mechanisms such as CVAs to walk away from leases and fixtures and fittings will be fully-written down.

On the subject of leases, they’ll almost certainly be granted initial rent-free periods, as the landlords or property managers are often keen to see the space let and a fashionable brand above the door.

That makes expansion even cheaper, so you can see massive short term growth with this model, and then potentially just-as-swift contraction.

The losers are the customers, the staff and the lower-down investors, of course.

The landlords just re-let to the next investment-backed name of the month; wash, rinse, repeat.

The burgers are completely incidental.

 

[AlterEgo]

The one thing that Burger King is still quite good at is making burgers. In fact I prefer theirs to a lot of the premium restaurants which are overpriced - that's when I haven't given up queuing.

Agreed - I definitely prefer BK to most other burger joints.

 

[Geezertronic]

Five Guys is much better than McDonalds - better quality food, the prices are higher to keep the riff-raff out in my opinion My nearest one is in Solihull (Touchwood)

 

[nlogax]

The one thing that Burger King is still quite good at is making burgers.

If a good night out doesn't end with a Bacon Double cheeseburger and onion rings then it never becomes a great night out.

It’s perhaps worth noting that, in the UK, Five Guys is 50% ‘owned’ by Charles Dunstone, the founder of Carphone Warehouse and Talk Talk.

The same Charles Dunstone who was partly responsible for the introduction - and subsequent failure of the Best Buy brand in the UK.

 

[yorksrob]

If a good night out doesn't end with a Bacon Double cheeseburger and onion rings then it never becomes a great night out.



The same Charles Dunstone who was partly responsible for the introduction - and subsequent failure of the Best Buy brand in the UK.

I like a chicken royale myself !

 

[Iskra]

It's a continuation of the fad for burger chains where you pay about £8 for a plain burger and add stuff on top, then add fries, then add a drink. The layout of the restaurant isn't substantially different to a McDonald's or Burger King, but you're convinced that the burgers are far higher quality. I don't deny they probably are tastier, but you're paying a hefty premium.

These places can work well when people have a nice level of disposable income, but we're already seeing many chain restaurants starting to suffer with many reducing their estates.

So far there doesn't seem to be a sign of coffee shops struggling, but I expect they've enjoyed good profit margins for years and in some cases clever accounting to avoid tax. But surely the high street can't sustain all of them either? I suppose it's more that people go for a coffee and a cake to sit for an hour or two chatting, so it's more a social thing. That and using it as a mobile office as I've done numerous times (not bad to have your own desk, often a power socket, Wi-Fi and all for the cost of a latte or coke).

Something you can't so easily afford to do going to a restaurant, where you would be expected to eat, pay and leave.

The posh burger market is approaching saturation IMO. Byron have already reduced the number of restaurants they run.

Coffee shops are struggling to maintain sales growth on the high street, but remain very profitable. The competition is increasingly intense though.

Retail parks are growing but the growth is slowing.

The real growth is in the travel market and drive thrus. That’s what’s keeping Costa’s growth going. Also there’s a growing awareness that products need to be instagrammable and experience based.

Had a meeting with the MD of Costa earlier this year, so that’s pretty much all from the horses mouth and it’s what I’m seeing too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would put 10p on it being the Train Operating Company

Yep...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I like a chicken royale myself !

If BK brought back the Flamer complete with its oaty bun, they'd get far more of my money. I do like their Croissandwich breakfasts but the one in Huddersfield town centre doesn't do breakfasts as it doesn't open until 9am and it "isn't worth it for 90mins of business" according to the staff member I spoke to.

Also doesn't help that many people don't realise there's a BK in town once again (the old one was terrible anyway) because it's tucked away in the mezzanine floor of the Packhorse Walk.

 

[47802]

There is no doubt that the high street is a challenging environment at the moment.

I worked for Argos for a short period recently, and I think its fair to say that most Argos stores have experienced a decline in footfall, clearly moving some of the stores into Sainsbury's saves on rent and they have found that an Argos store inside a Sainsburys slightly increases Sainsbury's sales as well. What is mainly helping Argos at present is the Fast Track Service order online and get it delivered or collect from store, its a very good service which is growing significantly. At the moment the FTD service is mainly run from some of the larger stores which also helps the viability of these stores but in the long term the FTD service may get moved to Dark Hubs, so I think Argos will be around for a long time but it will become more online, they will also have a significant challenge that Argos staff are generally paid less than Sainsbury's staff but I doubt that will be sustainable in the long term, and then of course there is the Asda merger in the pipeline.

Unfortunately I think the decimation of the high street has only just begun and has a lot further to go yet, but for some things it will still survive, for instance I tried food delivery, but have gone back shopping in store, I like to see what's available and find the best use by dates.

 

[yorksrob]

Had a meeting with the MD of Costa earlier this year, so that’s pretty much all from the horses mouth and it’s what I’m seeing too.

I hope you told him to get rid of that Twinings 'Everyday' rubbish. Their English Breakfast tea would be a suitable substitute.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Agreed - I definitely prefer BK to most other burger joints.

Me too; with Burger King I never get the stomach ache that invariably follows if I eat a McDonald's burger.

What I'd like Burger King to do would be to re-introduce that curly sausage and egg breakfast roll they had until a few years ago; the sausage patty that replaced it is not very good at all.

 

[Iskra]

I hope you told him to get rid of that Twinings 'Everyday' rubbish. Their English Breakfast tea would be a suitable substitute.

It’s gone already mate. Consider it done

 

[londiscape]

Spelmans in Brigg - quality food. If that ever gets shafted I'll have to get agressively involved!

 

[FQTV]

There is no doubt that the high street is a challenging environment at the moment.

I worked for Argos for a short period recently, and I think its fair to say that most Argos stores have experienced a decline in footfall, clearly moving some of the stores into Sainsbury's saves on rent and they have found that an Argos store inside a Sainsburys slightly increases Sainsbury's sales as well. What is mainly helping Argos at present is the Fast Track Service order online and get it delivered or collect from store, its a very good service which is growing significantly. At the moment the FTD service is mainly run from some of the larger stores which also helps the viability of these stores but in the long term the FTD service may get moved to Dark Hubs, so I think Argos will be around for a long time but it will become more online, they will also have a significant challenge that Argos staff are generally paid less than Sainsbury's staff but I doubt that will be sustainable in the long term, and then of course there is the Asda merger in the pipeline.

Unfortunately I think the decimation of the high street has only just begun and has a lot further to go yet, but for some things it will still survive, for instance I tried food delivery, but have gone back shopping in store, I like to see what's available and find the best use by dates.

Speaking of The High Street more generally, this just in from deepest, darkest Nottinghamshire:

http://ruddington.info/butcher-faces-closure-jul2018/

Butcher Needs “a Miracle” to Avoid Closure
27th July 2018 Graham Wright

WE HAVE TWO DAYS TO SAVE RUDDINGTON VILLAGE BUTCHERS!

It’s been revealed that one of our cheeriest shopkeepers will have to shut his unique business for good unless a lifeline can be found before the end of trading tomorrow (Saturday 28th July).

Shane pictured recently in The Rudd
An uncharacteristically melancholy Shane Ginty told RUDDINGTON.info he can now see “no way out” of his financial dilemma after a recent drop in custom has meant his shop trading at a loss for the past couple of months. A steady decline in footfall – which has been made even worse by the sudden closure of Thomas’s Greengrocers at Easter – has left his own business unable to sustain further losses. “Barring a miracle it looks like I’m going to have to close on Saturday” said a tearful Shane.

 

[yorksrob]

It’s gone already mate. Consider it done

Has it ? What have they got instead ?

 

[whhistle]

Five Guys must do a lot of research into locations, as they are popular in trendy districts where people aren't going to be seen dead in a McDonald's. McDonald's is the Android or Windows of the food world, while Five Guys is Apple or Tesla.

So what's Handmade Burger Company, Byron Burgers or Gormet Burger Kitchen?

McDonalds / Burger King / Five Guys are all in the same league.
Five Guys just approach it better by having highly customisable burgers (like MCD do now on their touch screens), but Five Guys throw fries at you like there's no tomorrow. Their burgers seem a bit nicer too, IMO.

FYI: Apple and Tesla trade on their name only. Tesla is making a mess of the car industry and the boss is an idiot. Apple will soon charge too much for their phones and their bubble will pop.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Wouldn't be surprised if, by this time next year, First Group as we know it would be still trading.

 

[trash80]

FYI: Apple and Tesla trade on their name only. Tesla is making a mess of the car industry and the boss is an idiot. Apple will soon charge too much for their phones and their bubble will pop.

People have been predicting Apple's demise since ... oh about 1977

 

[jon0844]

So what's Handmade Burger Company, Byron Burgers or Gormet Burger Kitchen?

?

I said Five Guys was a continuation on the up market burger restaurant 'fad', so maybe you should read back through the thread. Someone else has already reported Byron reducing its estate, and I think more will follow.

As disposable income falls in real terms, I think places will need to find ways to lower prices and not just raise them and hope to sell on being trendy. Of course in some areas you'll never be short of people with money but these are nationwide chains.

 

[dgl]

People have been predicting Apple's demise since ... oh about 1977

And if Microsoft hadn't brought a load of apple shares in the late 90's they would have become part of Sun Microsystems, from what I've heard the deal was all but done.

 

[trash80]

Possibly but now they are the biggest company in the world and Sun is owned by Oracle.

 

[Busaholic]

Wouldn't be surprised if, by this time next year, First Group as we know it would be still trading.

Is that what you meant to ask? I suspect 'would be' should be replaced by 'wouldn't be'?