Caledonian Sleeper - Fort William

[CallySleeperKid]

Hi, just a quick one if anyone can help, Me and my partner are taking the Caledonain Sleeper from Euston to Fort William in December, and I already know that you have to share the lounge car with the Inverness portion of the train until it splits at Edinburgh, but does anyone know the formation?

From what I understand, the 2 Fort William sleeper coaches are at the very front, followed by the Inverness portion, but is the Inverness lounge car between the Fort William and Inverness sleepers or is it at the other end? I only ask as my partner has nerve damage in her foot and a hike along 8+ sleeper coaches to get to the lounge may be a bit much, especially when the train is moving. Also it may be the difference between going first class and standard which is a difference of over £60!

Thanks for any information,

CSK

 

[First ScotRail]

INV (back), ABD (Middle), FTW (front 2) FTW customers use ABD lounge about 6 carriages down.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

INV (back), ABD (Middle), FTW (front 2) FTW customers use ABD lounge about 6 carriages down.

Well that goes to prove how wrong I was! I am sure when we went to Aberdeen we were right at the back? I suppose the formation can change with delays arriving at Edinburgh before going on to London?

Thanks for the Information

 

[berwickspotter]

Well that goes to prove how wrong I was! I am sure when we went to Aberdeen we were right at the back? I suppose the formation can change with delays arriving at Edinburgh before going on to London?

Thanks for the Information

Hope you have a great trip. love your pictures there excellent

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Hope you have a great trip. love your pictures there excellent

I hope we do to, thanks for the note on the pictures to.

 

[SouthernCrescent]

There was once I was on board and the Inverness section was behind the Fort William with the Aberdeen at the back so it might change, but yes its a bit of a walk from the Fort William coaches to whatever lounge you are using. It is possible for standard class passengers to also use the lounge subject to space so it might not be worth the extra just to use the lounge car. The main perk of first class is that you get your own cabin, but if you are travelling together you probably won't mind sharing. The other thing is that between Edinburgh and Fort William the FW section has its own lounge car so you can use that in the morning and in the evening when departing Fort William. Hope you have a fun trip, I cant wait to see the pictures!

 

[CallySleeperKid]

There was once I was on board and the Inverness section was behind the Fort William with the Aberdeen at the back so it might change, but yes its a bit of a walk from the Fort William coaches to whatever lounge you are using. It is possible for standard class passengers to also use the lounge subject to space so it might not be worth the extra just to use the lounge car. The main perk of first class is that you get your own cabin, but if you are travelling together you probably won't mind sharing. The other thing is that between Edinburgh and Fort William the FW section has its own lounge car so you can use that in the morning and in the evening when departing Fort William. Hope you have a fun trip, I cant wait to see the pictures!

I am 99% sure we will be going first class, we have done it before and its nice to have the space, and although the breakfast is not worth the extra money, its still better than a coffee and shortbread, plus the extra time you are on the Fort William sleeper will make the breakfast in the lounge car a hell of a lot better. And after all, your only 30 once!

I am hoping to get some real good pictures on the trip, not that I am the best with a camera, but I am taking a few trips I have never done before so I should be able to post some things a little different to what I have already.

We are doing the following.....

Langley Mill - Nottingham (Northern - 158 )
Nottingham - Birmingham New Street (Cross Country - 170)
Birmingham New Street - Tame Bridge Parkway (London Midland - ???)
Tame Bridge Parkway - London Marylebone (Wrexham & Shropshire - First Class - 67)
London Euston - Fort William (First ScotRail - First Class - 90/67)
Fort William - London Euston (First ScotRail - First Class - 90/67)
London Euston - Crewe (Virgin Trains - First Class - Pendolino)
Crewe - Derby (East Midlands Trains 153/156)

Really really looking forward to this, Just hope I get some good photos and am lucky enough to get one of the refurbished Wrexham & Shropshire sets!

 

[MCR247]

You'll have to put a thread in the stories nostalga etc forum telling us how you got on

 

[CallySleeperKid]

You'll have to put a thread in the stories nostalga etc forum telling us how you got on

It will be some trip, Hopefully!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
All booked! Ouch that hurt the bank account!

 

[mathmo]

All booked! Ouch that hurt the bank account!

Out of interest, have you booked an ALR or individual tickets?

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Out of interest, have you booked an ALR or individual tickets?

Individual tickets, with 2 night hotel it came to £920 odd, but thats taking into account that £662 was for the sleeper, there is 2 adults with a disabled adult railcard.

From what I can remember the prices were as follows......

Langley Mill - Nottingham £3.80
Nottingham - Birmingham New Street £9.20
Birmingham New Street - Tame Bridge Parkway £3.30
Tame Bridge Parkway - London Marylebone £72.60 (First Class)
London Euston - Fort William £331.20 (First Class)
Fort William - London Euston £331.20 (First Class)
London Euston - Crewe £44.90 (First Class)
Crewe - Derby £11.20

Plus the cost of the hotel (£118.00) £59 per room per night online, £160 per room per night over the phone!

 

[JustinStacey.x]

£920

That's... a lot... almost as much as I earn in a whole month hock:

 

[CallySleeperKid]

It is a lot but your only 30 once, and it was a present from my parents, so ill make the most of it I guess!

Even though it wasn't my money I still can't believe the cost of the Caledonian Sleeper, but it will, hopefully, be worth it!

Bargain berths next time though!

 

[EltonRoad]

You seem to have been unlucky with the Sleeper First Class singles - there are usually fares available at £136. The £184 ones seem to be mostly on Friday and Sunday nights. Which dates are you going?

 

[CallySleeperKid]

You seem to have been unlucky with the Sleeper First Class singles - there are usually fares available at £136. The £184 ones seem to be mostly on Friday and Sunday nights. Which dates are you going?

December 3rd London - Fort William
December 6th Fort William to London

I don't remember having to pay that much the last time we went first class but as there is only 2 sleeper coaches on the Fort William section I didn't want to risk waiting for any advanced to come online. I took 3 or 4 attempts at booking to get myself and my partner a shared cabin (next to each other) as we kept being put at seperate ends of the coach! After all, the whole trip was a present from my paremts so I just wanted to get it booked and not be left disappointed by not getting first class, or even a sleeper booking at all!

I was going to post on here to see if anyone knew why all I kept getting was £331.20 for 2 adults with a disabled railcard for a single sleeper journey. I looked on various days and all I every came up with was the same price, but as I say, for the reasons above, it is all booked and im happy as a pig in muck!

 

[EltonRoad]

I just tried booking London Euston to Fort William return for two, on the dates you suggest, one with disabled railcard, not sharing a cabin, and it quoted £331.20 - the price you paid.

I then tried it again but without the railcard, and it found four £136 tickets, £272 each way.

Might be worth phoning ScotRail and seeing if they can change it for you. That would save £118.40.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

I just tried booking London Euston to Fort William return for two, on the dates you suggest, one with disabled railcard, not sharing a cabin, and it quoted £331.20 - the price you paid.

I then tried it again but without the railcard, and it found four £136 tickets, £272 each way.

Might be worth phoning ScotRail and seeing if they can change it for you. That would save £118.40.

Thanks for that, I may well check that out.

 

[EltonRoad]

If it works then you can buy me a beer.

I'm going to Fort William this coming Thursday, back Sunday. Got a £136 single going up, but coming back there were only £184 tickets left. The Sunday night one leaves earlier at 1900 so might get to see a bit of scenery before it goes dark!

I did this journey in June, and they still had the old ex-cross-country "lounge car", which was actually just an old first class coach with green and yellow seats. I went up again in August and - at last - they've refurbished it to the same standard as the other ones. So you now get leather sofas and tables and chairs for the whole journey.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

If it works then you can buy me a beer.

I'm going to Fort William this coming Thursday, back Sunday. Got a £136 single going up, but coming back there were only £184 tickets left. The Sunday night one leaves earlier at 1900 so might get to see a bit of scenery before it goes dark!

I did this journey in June, and they still had the old ex-cross-country "lounge car", which was actually just an old first class coach with green and yellow seats. I went up again in August and - at last - they've refurbished it to the same standard as the other ones. So you now get leather sofas and tables and chairs for the whole journey.

I have just sent an e-mail off to ScotRail and if I get no joy with that I will give them a ring, as you say it has cost us almost £120 more than it should have, all because the cheaper tickets are not shown when you search with a disabled adult railcard option selected. To say you have to pay for your disabled adult railcard then it is pretty poor that when using it you don't get the cheaper ticket options!

Back to the sleeper, The Fort William portion is the only route I have not done, so will be completing the 'full set' in December. I am looking forward to the quiet lounge car on the return journey, and like you say, the chance to see a little of the fantastic scenery before dark.

 

[EltonRoad]

Good luck with that.

A few things to look out for: County March Summit, then the Horseshoe Curve at around 8 am. They didn't have enough money to bridge the gap between the mountains. You can see some of the old railway workers' houses on each side of the curve. Rannoch Moor after heading away from the A82 at about 8.20. Rannoch Viaduct, just after Rannoch station. Then Cruach snow shed, the only railway snow shed in Britain. The line over Rannoch Moor is floated on layers of turf and brushwood which are preserved by the peaty bog. This followed a similar principle adopted by the Liverpool and Manchester railway was it was first built.

Look out for Corrour station with the B+B next to it, accessible only by a dirt track - no public road. I've stayed in the B+B - great atmosphere, good beer, great food, only downside, plagued by midges. It is one of three request stops for the Sleeper.

Corrour Summit has a huge sign each side of railway, just after the station.

Loch Treig is on the left after this - great views. There's an underground pipe connecting it to the aluminium smelter in Fort William. Look out for the Monessie Gorge on the left, at about 9.25. Ben Nevis is on the left on the approach to Fort William. As you leave Spean Bridge, look at the end of the platform on the right. It curves away from the track. It used to form the terminus to the Fort Augustus railway.

At Fort William check out the oil terminal, just before arrival, on the right. The two bridges that cross the line, either end, give good views for photography. The bridge at the Mallaig end used to carry a narrow guage railway from the smelter towards Loch Linnhe.

Check out the old Motorail ramp at the station, still there although unused for a while now. The Sleeper stables next to it during the day. The station itself was relocated to its current site in 1975. It used to be next to Loch Linnhe, where the dual carriageway is now.

During your stay, visit the Glenfinnan Viaduct and have lunch in the converted railway carriage at Glenfinnan station.

There are loads of other features to look out for, I thoroughly recommend buying "Iron Roads To The Isles" by Michael Pearson £4.99. It gives a really concise guide to the line with loads of maps and photos. After travelling on the line you'll definitely want to know more about it. I know I did.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Good luck with that.

A few things to look out for: County March Summit, then the Horseshoe Curve at around 8 am. They didn't have enough money to bridge the gap between the mountains. You can see some of the old railway workers' houses on each side of the curve. Rannoch Moor after heading away from the A82 at about 8.20. Rannoch Viaduct, just after Rannoch station. Then Cruach snow shed, the only railway snow shed in Britain. The line over Rannoch Moor is floated on layers of turf and brushwood which are preserved by the peaty bog. This followed a similar principle adopted by the Liverpool and Manchester railway was it was first built.

Look out for Corrour station with the B+B next to it, accessible only by a dirt track - no public road. I've stayed in the B+B - great atmosphere, good beer, great food, only downside, plagued by midges. It is one of three request stops for the Sleeper.

Corrour Summit has a huge sign each side of railway, just after the station.

Loch Treig is on the left after this - great views. There's an underground pipe connecting it to the aluminium smelter in Fort William. Look out for the Monessie Gorge on the left, at about 9.25. Ben Nevis is on the left on the approach to Fort William. As you leave Spean Bridge, look at the end of the platform on the right. It curves away from the track. It used to form the terminus to the Fort Augustus railway.

At Fort William check out the oil terminal, just before arrival, on the right. The two bridges that cross the line, either end, give good views for photography. The bridge at the Mallaig end used to carry a narrow guage railway from the smelter towards Loch Linnhe.

Check out the old Motorail ramp at the station, still there although unused for a while now. The Sleeper stables next to it during the day. The station itself was relocated to its current site in 1975. It used to be next to Loch Linnhe, where the dual carriageway is now.

During your stay, visit the Glenfinnan Viaduct and have lunch in the converted railway carriage at Glenfinnan station.

There are loads of other features to look out for, I thoroughly recommend buying "Iron Roads To The Isles" by Michael Pearson £4.99. It gives a really concise guide to the line with loads of maps and photos. After travelling on the line you'll definitely want to know more about it. I know I did.

There is the list of reasons I have been desperate to do this line! I had previously planned to do a summer trip to Fort William, then on to Mallaig, ferry to Skye, over to Kyle of Lochalsh and on to Inverness that way, returning on the sleeper from either Inverness or Aberdeen, thats still in the planning stages though and may well happen next year (Although we intend to do the Night Riviera after its refurbishment, there is a great real ale scheme run on the branch lines down there which I have got to do!)

To me though the best time to be in Scotland, especially arriving in the morning, is the winter. To wake up and have your breakfast in the lounge car passing the snow covered mountains from the warmth (sometimes) of your carriage, its unbeatable in this country. Believe me ill be making note of everything you have pointed out and having a good look, light permitting, on the way.

I am planning to spend a day doing the trip to Mallaig, and hopefully get time to stop off at Glenfinnan, but not looked to much into the timetable and if the converted carriage will be open in early December. Would be some great photos to be had I would expect.

Just about to look up the book you mentioned. This time in 2 months we will be arriving at Fort William!

Thanks for the help and pointers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It looks like the whole Glenfinnan station museum, shop etc is only open June - October :cry:

 

[EltonRoad]

It looks like the whole Glenfinnan station museum, shop etc is only open June - October :cry:

I guess it gets most of its business when the Jacobite is running, as it stops there at 11 am each morning for 25 mins. The whole place looks like a London terminus for a while. It is quite a miracle how it keeps going. I think the on board shop on the Jacobite may have a connection with the museum as they sell some of the same stuff.

My other top tip is to hire a car. It's only about £31 per day and means you can access every location you need without waiting for the train. They'll meet you off the Sleeper.

 

[easy1964]

Reading this thread has been inspiring, I've always want to do the sleeper.
Its set me looking, many thanks.
I'm thinking early Dec or mid late Feb, I hope theirs snow.
Travel up to Inverness from Nottingham Friday, catch the early train Sat to Kyle, Bus to Portree and then I hope citylink coach down to Fort William. Sunday a trip to Mallaig and back.
Sunday night sleeper to London, return midday Monday to Nottingham.

I've had a look at fares,£136 1st Sgl, is this a good price?
Am I correct that its single berth no sharing?

Thanks
Paul

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Reading this thread has been inspiring, I've always want to do the sleeper.
Its set me looking, many thanks.
I'm thinking early Dec or mid late Feb, I hope theirs snow.
Travel up to Inverness from Nottingham Friday, catch the early train Sat to Kyle, Bus to Portree and then I hope citylink coach down to Fort William. Sunday a trip to Mallaig and back.
Sunday night sleeper to London, return midday Monday to Nottingham.

I've had a look at fares,£136 1st Sgl, is this a good price?
Am I correct that its single berth no sharing?

Thanks
Paul

You only get a single berth if you book first class, the only other way you can get a berth to yourself without spending a fortune is to try and book two bargain berths and just travel yourself. If you book a single ticket in standard class you will be sharing with someone of the same sex.

As for your trip, I was looking at the same thing but doing it the other way around,

Nottingham - London St Pancras
London Euston - Fort William
Night in Fort William
Fort William - Mallaig
Ferry across to Skye
Bus or Taxi through Skye to Kyle of Lochalsh
Kyle of Lochalsh - Inverness

From then on I would have a night in Inverness then travel...

Inverness - Aberdeen
Aberdeen - London Euston
London St Pancras - Nottingham

My main reason for coming back from Aberdeen is that the lounge car always seems to be quieter on that leg, where as the Inverness portion always seems to be busy, and although it it yet to happen to me, the lounge car can be limited to first class passengers only when its busy.

If you are planning to travel on your own, push the boat out and get first class, its well worth it, and to add to that, you can pick up very cheap advanced first class to and from London St Pancras for Nottingham.

This is a trip I plan to do in the summer, if not next year, then the year after, although I love the snow covered mountains and don't mind the cold, its not my partners idea of the best holiday!

Keep me informed and if you want any advice of help, give me a shout.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My other top tip is to hire a car. It's only about £31 per day and means you can access every location you need without waiting for the train. They'll meet you off the Sleeper.

We don't drive, so it train all the way, which is the way I like it, although I am talking my parents into coming along on one of our trips and my dad will be hiring a car as I am running out of distilleries to visit by train!

 

[rail-britain]

I made one trip on the Euston - Fort William, as part of my 14 day First Class ALR review in June this year
The Fort William is normally the front two sleepers, joined to the Aberdeen portion

When booking try to get berth numbers 09, 11, 13, or 15
These are the quietest

On arrival the two sleepers get shunted around quite a bit and can often waken everyone up
First the sleepers are detached, then the loco is detached
The seated coach and lounge car are then reversed on, and that loco detaches
The Inverness and then Aberdeen sleepers leave and the main loco then attaches to take the train to Fort William

 

[CallySleeperKid]

I made one trip on the Euston - Fort William, as part of my 14 day First Class ALR review in June this year
The Fort William is normally the front two sleepers, joined to the Aberdeen portion

When booking try to get berth numbers 09, 11, 13, or 15
These are the quietest

On arrival the two sleepers get shunted around quite a bit and can often waken everyone up
First the sleepers are detached, then the loco is detached
The seated coach and lounge car are then reversed on, and that loco detaches
The Inverness and then Aberdeen sleepers leave and the main loco then attaches to take the train to Fort William

I think we are around berths 15 and 17 on the way up, and around the lower numbers on the way back. We had to put 4 booking in the basket on the online booking system before we actually got a shared berth (2 next to each other with connecting door), even though we stated on each occasion that we wanted a shared berth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I just tried booking London Euston to Fort William return for two, on the dates you suggest, one with disabled railcard, not sharing a cabin, and it quoted £331.20 - the price you paid.

I then tried it again but without the railcard, and it found four £136 tickets, £272 each way.

Might be worth phoning ScotRail and seeing if they can change it for you. That would save £118.40.

E - mailed ScotRail and got a reply telling me that the prices were right, and indeed there was cheaper tickets that were offered if you searched without using the disabled adult railcard (which I already knew, as you had pointed it out and I had checked myself) and I was told 'There is a cheaper Sleeper First Single at a cost of £136.00 without railcard discount and I can only recommend you contact web support regarding availability of the quota on 0845 3050250.'

So I phoned up, had a 5 minute conversation with a woman who couldn't find my booking, and must have asked me 3 or 4 times if it was a bargain berth, anyway, to cut a long story short, I was put on hold for over 20 minutes before hanging up, so I chose to reply to the e-mail.

I seriously doubt there is anything that they can do, my guessing is that the cheaper tickets are of limited number and are not open to a railcard discount, so when you search with a railcards, they don't show up.

I have basically said that they should make all options available, if you search with a railcard or not, becuase you have to actually pay for the railcard, which is supposed to get you cheaper fares, but not all fares are being shown, so your not gewtting what you are paying for.

Anyway, will see what we get back, like I have mentioned before, it was not my money, it was a gift, so its not as important, but it is still wrong.

Will see what come back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Good luck with that.

There are loads of other features to look out for, I thoroughly recommend buying "Iron Roads To The Isles" by Michael Pearson £4.99. It gives a really concise guide to the line with loads of maps and photos. After travelling on the line you'll definitely want to know more about it. I know I did.

Book arrived this morning!

 

[EltonRoad]

I seriously doubt there is anything that they can do, my guessing is that the cheaper tickets are of limited number and are not open to a railcard discount, so when you search with a railcards, they don't show up.

I've just had another play with the booking system, and it seems that if you try to book a First Class Single with railcard discount, you only get the discounted £184 tickets listed. However if you go back and remove the railcard then the £136 tickets appear.

Anyway, will see what we get back, like I have mentioned before, it was not my money, it was a gift, so its not as important, but it is still wrong.

It is important. It is of no consequence to ScotRail whether that money was a gift. In effect you are making them a gift by not insisting on getting it cheaper!

I think if it were me I'd insist they looked to see if a discount is available on the £136 tickets, and if it isn't then they change my ticket to an undiscounted £136 one. I'd also complain about the current system, as the unwary will be conned out of a lot of money!

Book arrived this morning!

It's a great book.

I'm going up tomorrow ... very excited.
There's a railtour arriving in Fort William on Friday evening, Class 47 hauled. Hoping to get a photo, maybe in Monessie Gorge.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Well I finally got through to someone who actually knew what they were talking about, at the third time of asking! Yesterday I was placed on hold for over 20 minutes without even an explanation or just a word to say why I was on hold so long, today I got a guy who had no idea what he was talking about, asked for the ticket collection referance number and just told me it was invalid, quite bluntly, and that was it, basically ending the conversation.

I have just got off the phone to a woman who understood what had happened, she double checked the tickets and blamed a website error for the cheaper tickets not showing up when you search with a disabled adult railcard, and asked if I wanted to cancel the tickets and re-book. I assumed they would do that there and then, but when I asked when the money would be cleared back into my account, I was told the 28th October, (because I have to mail the tickets back to them!) that being just over a month before we travel.
I was not willing to wait that long to book new tickets at the cheaper price, manily because with the Fort William sleeper being so small, there may be no available first class tickets left, if any at all (especially with the return trip on the Sunday, as people use that to get to London for work) and even if there was some first class tickets available we may not get a shared cabin, after all, it took 4 lots of tickets to be added to my basket to get berths together when I first booked the tickets. I could have booked the tickets now and waited for my refund to come through, but spending another £550 is a big lump out of my money until the end of the month.

The ScotRail booking service is at fault here, which the woman admitted, and I am just about to e-mail off to them to make sure this does not happen to anyone else. I don't see there is much they can do for me in this situation with me not willing to wait for funds to clear back into my account before booking new tickets. It is to much of a risk with me having several other tickets booked to fit in with this trip, to not be able to get the sleeper would be an even bigger waste of money.

Like I say, going to e-mail ScotRail about the whole situation, and the poor customer service I recieved from the original two reps.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm going up tomorrow ... very excited.
There's a railtour arriving in Fort William on Friday evening, Class 47 hauled. Hoping to get a photo, maybe in Monessie Gorge.

Have a great trip.

 

[EltonRoad]

What a shambles.

I hope you get a refund of the difference, even if it means claiming it after you've travelled.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

What a shambles.

I hope you get a refund of the difference, even if it means claiming it after you've travelled.

Forwarded you a copy of the e-mail I sent them.....