Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[Roast Veg]

Today the 3 car unit appeared to be running solo, unless this was a mileage accumulation run into Queen Street this morning.

 

[youngac]

Today the 3 car unit appeared to be running solo, unless this was a mileage accumulation run into Queen Street this morning.

Unit 005 was sighted doing training runs at Linlithgow, so you might have seen that.

 

[Journeyman]

Unit 005 was sighted doing training runs at Linlithgow, so you might have seen that.

Probably - I can confirm that the usual pair of units was doing the passenger diagram both yesterday and today (spotted at Linlithgow in both cases).

 

[SC318250]

Looks like delivery on at present as loco arrived at Hitachi factory

 

[Jedipickles]

Looks like delivery on at present as loco arrived at Hitachi factory

67003 is apparently the loco in question, no information on the 385 being moved though

 

[InOban]

Seems in a hurry. More than 30min ahead of time!

 

[SC318250]

67003 with 385008

 

[Roast Veg]

Unit 005 was sighted doing training runs at Linlithgow, so you might have seen that.

That was almost certainly it. Sadly I didn't get to take a trip on the double set while I was up there.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Is it clear what is happening with the 385s replacing the 314s? I get priority is to get them into service on the E+G but are these trains actually going to replace the 314s routes like Cathcart circle/Newton/Neilston/Paisley Canal?

I’ve saw a few 320s/318s on the line recently and think they would perhaps be more suited to that line. I think it would be interesting to let the 380s and 385s share routes. I really like the 380s on the E+G and also it would be nice to see 385s down Ayrshire and Inverclyde way considering they require similar capacity trains.

 

[Altnabreac]

Is it clear what is happening with the 385s replacing the 314s? I get priority is to get them into service on the E+G but are these trains actually going to replace the 314s routes like Cathcart circle/Newton/Neilston/Paisley Canal?

I’ve saw a few 320s/318s on the line recently and think they would perhaps be more suited to that line. I think it would be interesting to let the 380s and 385s share routes. I really like the 380s on the E+G and also it would be nice to see 385s down Ayrshire and Inverclyde way considering they require similar capacity trains.

314s were due to start being withdrawn from December. However they are going off lease rather than to another operator so there is absolutely no rush to get 385s on compared to the DMU routes so expect E+G and Dunblane to be fully 385s before many 385s start running to Neilston / Newton.

My understanding is that initially they want to limit the number of routes they need to clear for 385s and the 385s need to get back to Edinburgh for maintenance so the decision was that Cathcart worked well as a relatively limited area to clear that had easy paths back east on the Carstairs and Shotts routes.

Because of the way routes are interlinked if you decide to run to Ayrshire you basically want to clear a unit for Paisley Canal / Inverclyde, Largs, as well which is a big area. Equally if you decide to run to Bathgate you need to clear to Milngavie, Balloch, Helensburgh, Cumbernauld, Larkhall, Hamilton etc.

Neilston, Newton and Cathcart are a small, self contained set of lines that has the oldest and most dilapidated stock on Scotrail and serves lots of customers who will probably respond well to new trains. Politically I suspect that has value as well...

The one route I'm slightly surprised 385s aren't planned to be doing is Lanark services from Central High Level. Given they are running via Carstairs it is only a short distance extra to clear and now they operate to High level they are a self contained route. I wouldn't be surprised if that was eventually added to the 385 repertoire.

 

[youngac]

I heard that the 385s would make it to Lanark. Since most services are currently 6 car 318/320s, cascading 385s to these services would allow for a much needed capacity boost on the Argyle Line and could also allow 318/320s to fully cover Paisley Canal services.

 

[Stopper]

Lanark was originally listed alongside the Cathcart Circle Lines, E-G, Shotts, Carstairs, Dunblane/Alloa and North Berwick/Dunbar as lines to be covered by the 385s if I remember correctly. It seems not so anymore. Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

[Bikeman78]

Is it clear what is happening with the 385s replacing the 314s? I get priority is to get them into service on the E+G but are these trains actually going to replace the 314s routes like Cathcart circle/Newton/Neilston/Paisley Canal?

I’ve saw a few 320s/318s on the line recently and think they would perhaps be more suited to that line. I think it would be interesting to let the 380s and 385s share routes. I really like the 380s on the E+G and also it would be nice to see 385s down Ayrshire and Inverclyde way considering they require similar capacity trains.

I must say it's rather strange to have 318/320 on the Cathcart lines whilst 314s charge up and down to Gourock. Must be down to driver traction knowledge? The 314s keep time much better than 320s on the Cathcarts.

 

[route101]

I read somewhere , one of the mags that the 385s are not being cleared for Neilston due to the turnback not long enough for 6 cars . SO going to 318s and 320s , though do 320s have to be cleared for Neilston?

 

[route101]

I must say it's rather strange to have 318/320 on the Cathcart lines whilst 314s charge up and down to Gourock. Must be down to driver traction knowledge? The 314s keep time much better than 320s on the Cathcarts.

The 314s have been on the Gourocks and maybe the Weymss bay for years . They are covering for 380s on the E & G , there is 318 diagram on saturday to Gourock for some reason.

 

[route101]

I suspect at somepoint the 385s will run an Ayrshire or Inverclyde service

 

[SC318250]

I can only see 385 operation on Ayrshire, if Ayr line continues to have a service through to Edinburgh

I wonder if we will see 380 on Lanarks with a few 318/320 on Inverclyde runs in the peaks. I suspect Paisley Canal will be a 4 car unit in peaks or all day

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I feel like it would be a nice change for Cathcart Circle services to get a bit of an upgrade. For the past how many years they’ve had older Class 303s then the older 314s which were only refurbished in 2011! It would be nice to see new stock on that line especially if it’s a busy route.

I do feel however since there are more converted 321s on the way that the 318s/320s should run Newton, Neilston and Lanark services while the 380s and 385s run all of Ayrshire, Inverclyde and Cathcart circle services.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

I’ve never quite got my head around the order for 385s for Cathcart Circle and branches. Doesn’t feel like the right sort of route for them at all, surely a proper suburban spec unit would have been better? Could have had common parts with 385 but higher capacity?

 

[gsnedders]

I’ve never quite got my head around the order for 385s for Cathcart Circle and branches. Doesn’t feel like the right sort of route for them at all, surely a proper suburban spec unit would have been better? Could have had common parts with 385 but higher capacity?

I'd put money on Cathcart getting new trains when the 318/320s get replaced—the 385s are merely because they're what they could trivially get a few extra of to meet the small shortfall from the 314s going.

 

[route101]

I’ve never quite got my head around the order for 385s for Cathcart Circle and branches. Doesn’t feel like the right sort of route for them at all, surely a proper suburban spec unit would have been better? Could have had common parts with 385 but higher capacity?

I thought 700s , 710s or 345s would be more suited .

 

[mcmad]

TOC's want as uniform a fleet as possible to simplfy maintenance and scheduling. While Scotrail are always going to have to have a more diverse fleet than many other TOC's they will over time try and reduce the number of different fleets, presumably based around the 385 for EMUs, whatever replaces the HST for longer distance and whatever replaces the 156's for WHL/FNL/GSW

 

[GrimShady]

TOC's want as uniform a fleet as possible to simplfy maintenance and scheduling. While Scotrail are always going to have to have a more diverse fleet than many other TOC's they will over time try and reduce the number of different fleets, presumably based around the 385 for EMUs, whatever replaces the HST for longer distance and whatever replaces the 156's for WHL/FNL/GSW

Is a diesel version of the 385 possible? I'm not sure there are any diesels in the AT200 range.

 

[Steamysandy]

The 385 is one of a large number of designs based on the HITACHI A train series of Electric Multiple unit trains used throughout Japan.As far as I am aware therefore no diesel versions but nearly all the main lines are electrified except in Hokkaido the North island.

 

[Rick1984]

The AT100 would be ideal for suburban replacement:
http://www.hitachirail-eu.com/products/our-trains/at100-metro
Could interwork with 385 with the latter doing the longer journies and the AT100 doing Cathcart circle, Paisley Canal etc.
Use it to replace 314,318,320 with 385 replacing 334

 

[CM]

The AT100 would be ideal for suburban replacement:
http://www.hitachirail-eu.com/products/our-trains/at100-metro
Could interwork with 385 with the latter doing the longer journies and the AT100 doing Cathcart circle, Paisley Canal etc.
Use it to replace 314,318,320 with 385 replacing 334

Sorry, but replacing 334s with 385s would be pointless. The 334s are made up of 20m(approx) Carriages whilst the 385s are made up of 23m(approx) Carriages. You'd not be able to operate the 385s in 6 car formations on routes served by 334s thus you'd have less capacity on each train. It'd also be very costly to lengthen all the Platforms on the 334 operated routes to accomodate 6 car 385s.

A more sensible approach would be to temporarily replace the 314s with the 385s as currently planned, then, when the time comes, replace the 318s, 320s and 334s with a single class of unit in 3 car formation with carriages of no more than 20m in length. You could also use these units to displace the 385s on the Cathcart Circle, Newton and Neilston lines onto routes where they'd be better suited.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Sorry, but replacing 334s with 385s would be pointless. The 334s are made up of 20m(approx) Carriages whilst the 385s are made up of 23m(approx) Carriages. You'd not be able to operate the 385s in 6 car formations on routes served by 334s thus you'd have less capacity on each train. It'd also be very costly to lengthen all the Platforms on the 334 operated routes to accomodate 6 car 385s.

A more sensible approach would be to temporarily replace the 314s with the 385s as currently planned, then, when the time comes, replace the 318s, 320s and 334s with a single class of unit in 3 car formation with carriages of no more than 20m in length. You could also use these units to displace the 385s on the Cathcart Circle, Newton and Neilston lines onto routes where they'd be better suited.

You don't have to lengthen every platform. SDO means that you'll probably just lose the rear door of the last carriage at a standard station. So long as the core infrastructure doesn't present major barriers there's not really a reason to restrict to 20m carriages, which are becoming less standard now that the Southern Region no longer dictates EMU design.

 

[CM]

You don't have to lengthen every platform. SDO means that you'll probably just lose the rear door of the last carriage at a standard station. So long as the core infrastructure doesn't present major barriers there's not really a reason to restrict to 20m carriages, which are becoming less standard now that the Southern Region no longer dictates EMU design.

Well, actually you would have to lengthen the platforms as it would be a bit pointless having the rear coach of a train hanging out the end of the platform at almost every station forcing passengers to have to walk to and from said carriage when they wanted off. Scotland isn't the Southern Region....

 

[boabt]

Scotland isn't the Southern Region....

Preach!

 

[thetangoman]

I thought that most stations on the North Clyde Line could accommodate 9 car 303's back in the day.
I could be wrong though.