GWR Class 800

[TEW]

They’re not if you have a long back.

And I have a short back, and also find the seats terribly uncomfortable. It's not just the lack of padding, the shape doesn't agree with me either.

 

[Jimini]

The height of the armrests is far too low -- I do Paddington <> Swindon once a week or so and I find them quite uncomfortable. Shame really, quite like them otherwise!

 

[class26]

No the seats themselves are fine, but they just need a load of extra padding!

But there is absolutely no support at all for the back. Hardly rocket science, this is just cheap rubbish, taking the punters for fools.

 

[Goldfish62]

But there is absolutely no support at all for the back. Hardly rocket science, this is just cheap rubbish, taking the punters for fools.

Indeed. That's because they're too upright so the entire body weight goes through the base cushion rather than being partially distributed through the back as well.

 

[Fearless]

When people ask me about the 800s, I advise them to take a plank of wood with them, so they've got something softer to sit on.

The bigger problem, though, is the frequent lack of audibility of the 'live' (not the pre-recorded) announcements. They're about half the volume of the pre-recorded ones, and are difficult to hear if passengers around you are talking loudly. People with hearing impairments really struggle with these. It's vital that you DO hear, because it can be information about walking through the train to be able to detrain on a short platform. Luckily, the disability and access guy is aware of this and trying to fix it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. That's because they're too upright so the entire body weight goes through the base cushion rather than being partially distributed through the back as well.

I don’t mind upright. I do mind a far too low headrest digging into my shoulders (like the old BR Mk2 seats).

 

[gsnedders]

I agree that the lack of corridor connection is disappointing (though thoroughly understandable in sloped 125-mph stock)

140mph stock! (Just, uh, there's nowhere in the UK they can currently do that with the signalling equipment they have!)

Is there any 140mph/225km/h gangway stock in the world?

 

[Mikey C]

140mph stock! (Just, uh, there's nowhere in the UK they can currently do that with the signalling equipment they have!)

Is there any 140mph/225km/h gangway stock in the world?

Of course this is only a problem with the 2 * 5 car units operating together, if (for argument's sake) all trains had been 9 car units, then there would have been no problems with uneven loading or having to have two trolleys etc

 

[jimm]

And then there would have been far fewer sets available to GWR overall and nothing suitable for the various Class 180 and Turbo jobs that the IETs are taking over - as well as replacing the HST fleet - that do not require a train seating 600+ passengers.

 

[D1009]

And then there would have been far fewer sets available to GWR overall and nothing suitable for the various Class 180 and Turbo jobs that the IETs are taking over - as well as replacing the HST fleet - that do not require a train seating 600+ passengers.

I would contend that having one trolley to serve 600+ passengers would be inadequate anyway.

 

[Mikey C]

I would contend that having one trolley to serve 600+ passengers would be inadequate anyway.

You could then have a buffet car (like the East Coast oness)

 

[59CosG95]

Reports are in that 800003 has now entered service (at last) with GWR.

 

[broadgage]

Over 20 half length IETs today including three consecutive morning rush hour trains. All due to train faults.
Also 4 services between Cardiff and London cancelled due to staff shortage.
Presumably if staff had been available for the 4 four cancelled trains, then another 8 services would have been half length.

Advocates of the new DMUs will no doubt state that this illustrates the splendid flexibility of DMUs, and that half a train is better than no train. However when we still had HSTs, I do not recall regular cancellations or short formations on long distance services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Advocates of the new DMUs will no doubt state that this illustrates the splendid flexibility of DMUs, and that half a train is better than no train. However when we still had HSTs, I do not recall regular cancellations or short formations on long distance services.

HST short forms are quite common, but as they're basically classic LHCS normally this just meant one faulty coach removed from the formation.

 

[JN114]

Advocates of the new DMUs will no doubt state that this illustrates the splendid flexibility of DMUs, and that half a train is better than no train. However when we still had HSTs, I do not recall regular cancellations or short formations on long distance services.

The passengers of the Thames Valley used to suffer with Turbo vice HSTs on a nearly daily basis in both peaks on Oxford services - they masked a number of the cancellations that would have occurred.

 

[jimm]

I would contend that having one trolley to serve 600+ passengers would be inadequate anyway.

Have you ever heard of first class hosts?

Given the frequent absence of any buffet announcements, over many years, on countless HST services I have used, many passengers on GWR are probably blissfully unaware that there even is a buffet on their train.

Over 20 half length IETs today including three consecutive morning rush hour trains. All due to train faults.
Also 4 services between Cardiff and London cancelled due to staff shortage.
Presumably if staff had been available for the 4 four cancelled trains, then another 8 services would have been half length.

Advocates of the new DMUs will no doubt state that this illustrates the splendid flexibility of DMUs, and that half a train is better than no train. However when we still had HSTs, I do not recall regular cancellations or short formations on long distance services.

Do you ever actually read any responses to your repetitive moaning here or on the GW Passengers' Forum?

There are have been frequent mentions in both places that four - now three, it appears - of the five-car Class 800s have not been in passenger traffic, several months after they were meant to have been available to GWR. This when 32 of the 36 sets are supposed to be diagrammed for traffic each day. The trains need programmed maintenance, never mind other work when faults develop, so it isn't surprising that there are going to be some short-forms.

Never mind that we are in the middle of August, a time of year when commuter traffic falls off a cliff. My train home in the peak last Thursday was booked for a nine-car 800, was worked by a five-car, and still had empty seats between Paddington and Reading, so everyone had a choice of where to sit...

I have pointed out on this forum at least twice recently that passengers on long-distance routes were systematically shielded from short-forming, because for many years HSTs were being taken off Oxford and Cotswold services to replace a faulty set meant to go elsewhere and replaced in turn with 180s or Turbos. This also resulted in further short-forming on Thames Valley services by taking 165s or 166s off services that were meant to be be pairs of Turbos - and if they couldn't pull off that trick, the Oxford or Cotswold train just got cancelled.

 

[Kite159]

Reports are in that 800003 has now entered service (at last) with GWR.

Confirmed, it was on the Cotswolds stopper service tonight

 

[Clarence Yard]

And 004 won’t be far behind it. Another 9 car may also make an appearance this week.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

That means on average one 9 car set gets put into passenger service every week or two until December.

 

[D1009]

Have you ever heard of first class hosts?

Given the frequent absence of any buffet announcements, over many years, on countless HST services I have used, many passengers on GWR are probably blissfully unaware that there even is a buffet on their train.

Yes and I agree.

 

[D1009]

I had my first IET experience from Plymouth to Exeter today on 1A93 1400 from Penzance. I used to do a lot of train timing, but have sort of retired from it. According to my GPS we dropped to 55 mph ascending Hemerdon bank after a short acceleration from 68 to 71 after the 70 limit at Tavy Jn. I'd be interested to know how this compares with your average HST run.

The other thing that struck me was the trolley catering. It was pretty clear to me that the person manning the trolley hadn't had much in the way of training, resulting in a static service from Plymouth to Newton Abbot, where as usual catering finishes before the crew change at Exeter. Obviously this will eventually be sorted, but I thought it poor for an inaugural public run,

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given the frequent absence of any buffet announcements, over many years, on countless HST services I have used, many passengers on GWR are probably blissfully unaware that there even is a buffet on their train

TBH these days I find a buffet car a bit of an annoyance, I need to gather up all my technology of various types to go there then come back. A trolley is probably more use.

What I *would* like is a (DB style, rather than posh/expensive) restaurant/bistro, where I could choose to spend the whole journey there partaking of some decent food and drink.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Over 20 half length IETs today including three consecutive morning rush hour trains. All due to train faults.

Not true. 3 five car IET’s stopped today, two on exam, one for repair. So blaming it on train faults is a bit misleading. 7 nine cars available (IET) with one stopped for exam.

 

[Sean Emmett]

I had my first IET experience from Plymouth to Exeter today on 1A93 1400 from Penzance. I used to do a lot of train timing, but have sort of retired from it. According to my GPS we dropped to 55 mph ascending Hemerdon bank after a short acceleration from 68 to 71 after the 70 limit at Tavy Jn. I'd be interested to know how this compares with your average HST run.

Yesterday I was on the 802s from Bristol TM - Penzance - Paddington - Reading, and did the same the previous week with the HST (except the HST was stopped at PAD and didn't do the 20.03 PAD - PLY) and have posted details of the running with a comparison to the previous week on the Railway Performance Society forum under news.

Eastbound from Plymouth the 802s got away much the better and were 30s ahead emerging from Mutley Tunnel than the HST. After the 60 (not 70) restriction at Tavistock Jn the HST accelerated to 74 compared with 71 for the 802s. The 802s fell to 55 as you say, but the HST was going so well it had to be eased for the 60 at the top.

So the HST had clawed time back and was only 10s behind at Hemerdon, and 1s behind at Wrangaton and got ahead down to Totnes.

Earlier on the 802s did 97 through Wellington falling to 89-90 at Whiteball, compared with 100/94 for the HST (and 88/78 for the 800 on the Paignton a week ago). But the 802s got to Whiteball first by virtue of the faster start.

Stops were cautious as may be expected.

Later on the engine under coach I was in was cutting out, maybe others were too, and the climb of Lavington bank was laboured as a result - only 84 at Patney compared with 106 for the HST.

Fast accelerations on electric, notably quicker than the artificially constrained acceleration of the 800s.

 

[Phil G]

On 313 at the moment and I notice it has the new seat covers, presumably they are now being fitted from new. I didn't notice them on the earlier 9 cars, they are nicer than the standard covers.

 

[Mintona]

On 313 at the moment and I notice it has the new seat covers, presumably they are now being fitted from new. I didn't notice them on the earlier 9 cars, they are nicer than the standard covers.

309 definitely has them too. I would presume 310 as well.

 

[D1009]

309 definitely has them too. I would presume 310 as well.

Is 310 out yet?

 

[TwistedMentat]

Yesterday I was on the 802s from Bristol TM - Penzance - Paddington - Reading, and did the same the previous week with the HST (except the HST was stopped at PAD and didn't do the 20.03 PAD - PLY) and have posted details of the running with a comparison to the previous week on the Railway Performance Society forum under news.

Eastbound from Plymouth the 802s got away much the better and were 30s ahead emerging from Mutley Tunnel than the HST. After the 60 (not 70) restriction at Tavistock Jn the HST accelerated to 74 compared with 71 for the 802s. The 802s fell to 55 as you say, but the HST was going so well it had to be eased for the 60 at the top.

So the HST had clawed time back and was only 10s behind at Hemerdon, and 1s behind at Wrangaton and got ahead down to Totnes.

Earlier on the 802s did 97 through Wellington falling to 89-90 at Whiteball, compared with 100/94 for the HST (and 88/78 for the 800 on the Paignton a week ago). But the 802s got to Whiteball first by virtue of the faster start.

Stops were cautious as may be expected.

Later on the engine under coach I was in was cutting out, maybe others were too, and the climb of Lavington bank was laboured as a result - only 84 at Patney compared with 106 for the HST.

Fast accelerations on electric, notably quicker than the artificially constrained acceleration of the 800s.

My understanding is that the acceleration under diesel is the same between the 802s and 800s. And that the previous difference was a cap on the engine kW output for the 800s that was upped to the same as the 802s once the realisation of just how little was being electrified was known.

 

[irish_rail]

So travellers to the south west have either a sideways or slightly backwards step in speed compared to a HST. How is it acceptable that we may be stuck with these for the next 30 years and yet they are no better performers than HSTs and in some way worse???? Surely this strengthens the case to get on and electrfiy the b and h plus parts of Devon, otherwise the southwest is going to fall further behind economically and socially (and is fairing far worse than the north by the way) . Will we get electrification down here? I doubt it as other regions will as usual shout louder , and no doubt be the beneficiary of any additional electrification. For me if we don't get.more wires, we need new trains down here
.........rant over

 

[Mintona]

Is 310 out yet?

Yes, according to the magic box it’s currently working the 0945 Paddington - Swansea.