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GWR Class 800

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The Ham

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No idea what you were trying to demonstrate - you posted without giving a link to the Tripadvisor thread (if you are referring something it is hardly a stressful task to give a link, is it?) and just said it was headed 'GWR's new trains' - which might tend to suggest that all the posts covered by the list of numbers were about GWR's new trains, except they weren't.



Could you actually explain why you think the five-car sets should be extended to nine-car sets.

There is no way on earth that large numbers of the services that the IETs will be working for many years will ever need a 630-seat train - a fair number of the five-cars are replacing 180s and Turbos or providing new services such as the hourly Cheltenham-London frequency and the extra 2tph limited-stop off-peak trains between Bristol and London.

If the entire Bristol service was worked by nine-car sets, you would be offering 2,500 seats per hour in either direction all day. Good luck with getting enough bums on seats to come even close to breaking even on the costs of running that lot up and down.

The full IET fleet already provides a substantial capacity increase on what it is replacing. At a time when growth in passenger numbers has pretty much stalled across the network, proposing massive over-capacity is not a great idea.

Although the questions weren't aimed at me there's two thoughts on this.

Firstly not so the 5 coach trains would necessarily be lengthened to 9 coach units, as such it could be an extra 6 which are lengthen, which would provide some extra capacity but wouldn't make it so that there was far too much capacity.

Secondly, we mostly only have the headline figures on passenger growth or lack of it. A lot of the do is associated with a few TOC's the largest being SWT. What had changed in terms of extra trains in the last 5 years at SWT? Until the Waterloo rebuild, not a lot a few extra trains on the busiest network in the UK.

Is it therefore surprising that passengers aren't studying around.

Even on the wider network there's not been that much in the last 5 years which has substantially improved things for passengers and much that has will have been in the last year. Yet for much of that time passenger numbers kept on going up.

Once things bed in and there's more visible improvements I wouldn't be surprised if there's more growth again.

The network is creaking, as we are broadly at the number of passengers expected for the opening of HS2 phase 1, yet there's not been many major (fully delivered) improvements for several years.
 
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D1009

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This thread is a loop. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

Let’s come up with something new, let’s talk about the hard seats. No one had mentioned it yet. :D
Although the questions weren't aimed at me there's two thoughts on this.

Firstly not so the 5 coach trains would necessarily be lengthened to 9 coach units, as such it could be an extra 6 which are lengthen, which would provide some extra capacity but wouldn't make it so that there was far too much capacity.

Secondly, we mostly only have the headline figures on passenger growth or lack of it. A lot of the do is associated with a few TOC's the largest being SWT. What had changed in terms of extra trains in the last 5 years at SWT? Until the Waterloo rebuild, not a lot a few extra trains on the busiest network in the UK.

Is it therefore surprising that passengers aren't studying around.

Even on the wider network there's not been that much in the last 5 years which has substantially improved things for passengers and much that has will have been in the last year. Yet for much of that time passenger numbers kept on going up.

Once things bed in and there's more visible improvements I wouldn't be surprised if there's more growth again.

The network is creaking, as we are broadly at the number of passengers expected for the opening of HS2 phase 1, yet there's not been many major (fully delivered) improvements for several years.
Another factor is the increasing congestion on the road/motorway network, with an increaasing number of young people opting out of driving, probably due to the costs involved. However this is what has been happening over the last few years, there is no guarantee it will continue. I can see the increased frequency of fast trains on the GWR network leading to growth, but the big question is how much.
 

jimm

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Although the questions weren't aimed at me there's two thoughts on this.

Firstly not so the 5 coach trains would necessarily be lengthened to 9 coach units, as such it could be an extra 6 which are lengthen, which would provide some extra capacity but wouldn't make it so that there was far too much capacity.

Secondly, we mostly only have the headline figures on passenger growth or lack of it. A lot of the do is associated with a few TOC's the largest being SWT. What had changed in terms of extra trains in the last 5 years at SWT? Until the Waterloo rebuild, not a lot a few extra trains on the busiest network in the UK.

Is it therefore surprising that passengers aren't studying around.

Even on the wider network there's not been that much in the last 5 years which has substantially improved things for passengers and much that has will have been in the last year. Yet for much of that time passenger numbers kept on going up.

Once things bed in and there's more visible improvements I wouldn't be surprised if there's more growth again.

The network is creaking, as we are broadly at the number of passengers expected for the opening of HS2 phase 1, yet there's not been many major (fully delivered) improvements for several years.

GWR is not immune from the general network-wide stalling of growth in traffic. Even if you allow for the transfer of the west London suburban stations to TfL, meaning some traffic was allocated elsewhere in the statistics from last December, GW passenger traffic was basically flat in in 2017-18.

See https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/displayreport/html/html/195d9cd7-d316-43d7-84fa-81f4e1837ca3

We have yet to see the impact on the economy of something beginning with B, and until we have some idea of what that is likely to mean, which may well play out over several years, the resumption of growth in passenger numbers on anything like the scale seen in the past decade seems a distant prospect.

Never mind it happening on a scale that justifies a massive capacity increase in a GWR express train fleet that, as I noted above, already delivers a fair amount of extra capacity already.
 

DelW

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GWR is not immune from the general network-wide stalling of growth in traffic. Even if you allow for the transfer of the west London suburban stations to TfL, meaning some traffic was allocated elsewhere in the statistics from last December, GW passenger traffic was basically flat in in 2017-18.
I would expect that the considerable number of weekend closures and diversions for electrification work on the south Wales main line have had an impact on weekend leisure travel. Friends who have experienced journeys of very extended durations or having to stand for long distances, have tended to reduce their non-essential rail travel afterwards. Hopefully this market will recover when the work is complete and the 800s are running to their final schedules.
 

spark001uk

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Interesting to note that the voice of Julie Berry makes an appearance in the disabled loos on the 800/802.!
 

CC 72100

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Interesting to note that the voice of Julie Berry makes an appearance in the disabled loos on the 800/802.!

In addition to the 2 other voices on the PIS... has any train got 3 separate voices for different bits of customer info? Now that would be a niche bit of trivia, but if there was ever a place for it, RailForums UK would be the one ;):lol:
 

gsnedders

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Sean Emmett

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At present IETs are treated as an 'HST' for purposes of timetable planning and shown as such on Real Time Trains, Open Time Trains etc.

I had understood this would change for the Dec 2018 timetable, now defered to May 2019.

When this happens, will there be any distinction between 800 and 802 timings?
 

D1009

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In addition to the 2 other voices on the PIS... has any train got 3 separate voices for different bits of customer info? Now that would be a niche bit of trivia, but if there was ever a place for it, RailForums UK would be the one ;):lol:
The use of both male and female voices on the general PIS and the phraseology reminds me of that in use on Virgin West Coast. Was the same supplier used?
 

Domh245

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Hi!
This article is how many serious for Class80X?

Testing of new Azuma trains near York halted after glitch
The Press, York
8/30
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/16606682.testing-of-new-azuma-trains-near-york-halted-after-glitch/

Not a show stopper, it is only the electric mode that has the issues, they can still run fine whilst in Diesel mode. As mentioned, there was a similar issue on the Great Western route which was fixed, so I see no reason why this can't be resolved as well
 

D1009

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In terms of timetable planning for the current introduction, there isn’t any. They are running in HST diagrams, timed as HST units. 800D and 800E timings are not yet agreed by NR and the whole December 2018 Timetable is when these timings should finally come into play.
At present IETs are treated as an 'HST' for purposes of timetable planning and shown as such on Real Time Trains, Open Time Trains etc.

I had understood this would change for the Dec 2018 timetable, now defered to May 2019.

When this happens, will there be any distinction between 800 and 802 timings?
The first quote is from Nov 2017. I was wondering whether the new running times have yet been agreed by Network Rail.
 

59CosG95

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The use of both male and female voices on the general PIS and the phraseology reminds me of that in use on Virgin West Coast. Was the same supplier used?
Possibly; though the IETs' (which I've finally sampled) PIS voice has a bit of a Welsh twang to it.
Faint, but not unnoticeable. (Though I'd much prefer Rob Brydon's dulcet tones on there myself)
 

The_Engineer

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Hi!
This article is how many serious for Class80X?

Testing of new Azuma trains near York halted after glitch
The Press, York
8/30
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/16606682.testing-of-new-azuma-trains-near-york-halted-after-glitch/
The IET will have been tested to ensure that it's interference emissions do not exceed the limits stated in the relevant Network Rail EMI standard for trains. This will have been done prior to any general permissions for running on Network Rail.

In view of this, a probable explanation of the problem is that the particular signalling equipment north of York has a lower susceptibility threshold to interference than the maximum specified emissions level for trains. The fact that the signalling may not have experienced interference problem earlier is because older trains may have a lower emissions level than the IET, even though the IET passes the emission tests.
 

D1009

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Not a show stopper, it is only the electric mode that has the issues, they can still run fine whilst in Diesel mode. As mentioned, there was a similar issue on the Great Western route which was fixed, so I see no reason why this can't be resolved as well
Also there is plenty of work in the short term for both 800s and 801s south of York, once they start.
 

samuelmorris

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Possibly, but the first 800s are intended to replace HSTs. They may be able to cascade a few HSTs off Leeds services but predominantly the new units need to be able to run to Aberdeen and Inverness fairly promptly. The electrified services can wait, as I don't imagine the Mk4s are going anywhere any time soon, at least not many of them.
 

800001

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Hi!
This article is how many serious for Class80X?

Testing of new Azuma trains near York halted after glitch
The Press, York
8/30
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/16606682.testing-of-new-azuma-trains-near-york-halted-after-glitch/
Interference has been identified, however this has had no negative impact on the signal system.

The 'ban' on electric operation north of Colton is a precautionary measure until Network Rail/Hitachi fix the issue.

Its been on going for several months.
 

Clarence Yard

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NR are currently not prepared to extend the statement of compatibility for 800 series stock for electric passenger operation outside of the current Paddington to Didcot section due to potential signalling interference issues.

Talks between Hitachi/NR/DfT are ongoing and possible solutions for both routes are being discussed and trialled.

Frankly, it’s a bit of a mess and neither the DfT or Hitachi are reported to be amused.
 

Termy

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Possibly; though the IETs' (which I've finally sampled) PIS voice has a bit of a Welsh twang to it.
Faint, but not unnoticeable. (Though I'd much prefer Rob Brydon's dulcet tones on there myself)

Having been on several IETs between Swansea and Paddington, and having lived in Wales for nearly two decades... Yep. I was able to hear the Welsh twang straight away. I chuckled at it, and thought it was only for the PAD-SWA line. I'll be a lot happier if the same voice is employed across the UK. I like her voice! :D
 

Dai Corner

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Having been on several IETs between Swansea and Paddington, and having lived in Wales for nearly two decades... Yep. I was able to hear the Welsh twang straight away. I chuckled at it, and thought it was only for the PAD-SWA line. I'll be a lot happier if the same voice is employed across the UK. I like her voice! :D

How about different regional accents for different routes? Or even different accents en route? Aberdeen-Penzance could be fun!
 

Termy

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How about different regional accents for different routes? Or even different accents en route? Aberdeen-Penzance could be fun!

I would genuinely travel across the whole of the UK to hear all of these if this was a thing.
 

ainsworth74

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Frankly, it’s a bit of a mess and neither the DfT or Hitachi are reported to be amused.

You can see why really! If Hitachi have delivered a product that meet the standards they were told would be sufficient to have Network Rail now move the goal posts is going to rankle.
 

59CosG95

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That would be as nice a touch as the German regional stock which plays a different tune (regional anthems I believe) for each Bundesland.
It's a lot harder to do in the UK with all the various counties. There is also the problem that we always refer to England/Wales/Scotland as nations, and there would probably be no end to the nationalistic ramifications if we always played God Save the Queen/King in England, Land of Our Fathers in Wales, and Flower of Scotland in (well, Scotland) - especially during the Six Nations!
 

Bletchleyite

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It's a lot harder to do in the UK with all the various counties. There is also the problem that we always refer to England/Wales/Scotland as nations, and there would probably be no end to the nationalistic ramifications if we always played God Save the Queen/King in England, Land of Our Fathers in Wales, and Flower of Scotland in (well, Scotland) - especially during the Six Nations!

I think it could be seen as an issue in England due to the racist parties hijacking our national pride for their own unpleasant ends. However I'm quite sure it could and would work in Wales and Scotland where nationalism is seen quite differently - ATW has a little "tune" it uses at major stations that could easily be replaced with the first few bars of Land of our Fathers - and I think it'd be a wonderful touch if they did.

Anyway, God Save the Queen is the UK national anthem; Jerusalem perhaps? :)
 

Bletchleyite

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I don't think they do, the ones in Bavaria that I've used just have a standard tone

It's only a very specific generation of stock - the early 2010s double deckers. They are used on stopping services around Berlin and Hamburg at least, and the "tone" changes when you cross a border, a bit like the way the Swiss have the three sets of tones, one for each language area (representing SBB, CFF or FFS as appropriate). I noticed it while doing Hamburg-Berlin on a Wochenendticket using RB and RE only.
 

cactustwirly

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It's only a very specific generation of stock - the early 2010s double deckers. They are used on stopping services around Berlin at least, and the "tone" changes when you cross a border, a bit like the way the Swiss have the three sets of tones, one for each language area (representing SBB, CFF or FFS as appropriate).

I was on one of the Bombardier DoStos, but didn't notice it
 

SamYeager

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Anyway, God Save the Queen is the UK national anthem; Jerusalem perhaps? :)

Nah, let's go with Flanders and Swann's anthem of which the first two lines are:

The English, the English, the English are best.
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest!

NB. This post is completely tongue in cheek so please don't bother with the "outraged" posts.
 
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