SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

[Matt Taylor]

SWR are sending drivers home, obviously fully paid, after an hour or so on strike days as they do not have work for them since fewer trains are running.

Yet again you are spouting absolute nonsense, every single driver at my depot got a job yesterday, they were all going home at whatever time was dictated on their schedule cards. There were actually a lot less drivers in the mess room than is usually the case.

 

[Kite159]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the resolution of the gwr iep dispute a few years ago was that there would be a guard on every iep train.

Is that wrong then?

IIRC when the IETs run solely within the pre-existing DOO area they can operate as DOO (so Oxford - Paddington fasts & Bedwyn - Paddington services). When an IET runs towards the Cotswolds line it will carry a guard all the way, whereas before when those services operated as Turbos the guard would only board at Oxford.

 

[theironroad]

IIRC when the IETs run solely within the pre-existing DOO area they can operate as DOO (so Oxford - Paddington fasts & Bedwyn - Paddington services). When an IET runs towards the Cotswolds line it will carry a guard all the way, whereas before when those services operated as Turbos the guard would only board at Oxford.

Ah, ok that makes more sense.

So I'm guessing the londin to south wales and London to cornwall services will have a guard.

 

[embers25]

Axminster would not have been on RTT as they are last-minute requests from onboard staff. There was one return journey.

Yeovil should have been on RTT as they were STPs rather than VSTPs.

Actually there was 1 return journey, 1 out but not back and one back but not out at Axminster that Sunday. The issue was they changed the buses in the evening and quite significantly and these changes were not picked up by RTT or many journey planners.

 

[Goldfish62]

Ah, ok that makes more sense.

So I'm guessing the londin to south wales and London to cornwall services will have a guard.

Yes. Always.

 

[vikingdriver]

Yet again you are spouting absolute nonsense, every single driver at my depot got a job yesterday, they were all going home at whatever time was dictated on their schedule cards. There were actually a lot less drivers in the mess room than is usually the case.

Same at our depot. Had a couple more spare perhaps than usual but the majority still had work.

 

[dctraindriver]

SWR are sending drivers home, obviously fully paid, after an hour or so on strike days as they do not have work for them since fewer trains are running.

I am told SWR management are delighted that the small number of RMT drivers are on strike because they do not have to pay them, RMT does.
And no precedent is set - legally - for not sanctioning them.

Is this from your personal experience or have you heard this from a mate down the pub? I can assure you I have worked on days where guards were on strike. Bar one day I’ve worked full turns. One day I sat spare, and I can assure you I wasn’t sent home after one hour. Please be careful what you spout on here as people who don’t know will buy it and form a misjudged opinion of staff.....

 

[XDM]

I was told by a SWR manager, who reads the forum. He has since drawn my attention to the critical responses, which he & I take seriously when they are from drivers.

He says, & I confirm he told me, that some drivers at some(note some) signing on points were sent home after an hour or so when it was clear there was no work they could cover & finish by their finishing time.
That is what happens every normal day at every TOC with sparemen.
There is no point in holding spare drivers to sit around if there is no prospect of them doing any work that shift.

An hour or so does not mean 60 mins. It means "an hour or so" & it only applied to those who had no prospect of any work to cover.

The main point of the post was that SWR was not unhappy to have RMT drivers on strike (at some depots) because they had no work for them anyway on strike days with reduced services, & it meant the strikers did not have to be paid for nothing by SWR.
Instead they were paid out of RMT member's contributions.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Are there more strikes planned, other than this coming Saturday 15 Sept.

 

[pompeyfan]

I was told by a SWR manager, who reads the forum. He has since drawn my attention to the critical responses, which he & I take seriously when they are from drivers.

He says, & I confirm he told me, that some drivers at some(note some) signing on points were sent home after an hour or so when it was clear there was no work they could cover & finish by their finishing time.
That is what happens every normal day at every TOC with sparemen.
There is no point in holding spare drivers to sit around if there is no prospect of them doing any work that shift.

An hour or so does not mean 60 mins. It means "an hour or so" & it only applied to those who had no prospect of any work to cover.

The main point of the post was that SWR was not unhappy to have RMT drivers on strike (at some depots) because they had no work for them anyway on strike days with reduced services, & it meant the strikers did not have to be paid for nothing by SWR.
Instead they were paid out of RMT member's contributions.

Again, completely incorrect, I’ve known 1 person get sent home after ‘an hour or so’ and that was before this current round of action and was actually related to the drivers guaranteed free days where they were rostered a late turn the day and an early turn the day after.

I’ve just looked at a depots sheets and there was only 4 spare drivers, all of which could potentially have had to do some work.

Maybe your manager friend had one occasion at one well staffed depot where that was the case, but that’s not gospel and that’s not the normal. I’m also hearing of a few ASLEF drivers who are refusing to cross the picket line. Technically the company don’t know which union a driver belongs to and so I’m sure SWR are glad they’ve saved even more money.

That said (and I must stress this is only a rumour from overhead conversations between managers) that each contingency guard gets at least £200 per strike day, as well as a hotel if necessary or a highly inflated taxi price going long distances. The company are also not receiving as much revenue, so all in all strike days are costing the company more.

 

[infobleep]

Again, completely incorrect, I’ve known 1 person get sent home after ‘an hour or so’ and that was before this current round of action and was actually related to the drivers guaranteed free days where they were rostered a late turn the day and an early turn the day after.

I’ve just looked at a depots sheets and there was only 4 spare drivers, all of which could potentially have had to do some work.

Maybe your manager friend had one occasion at one well staffed depot where that was the case, but that’s not gospel and that’s not the normal. I’m also hearing of a few ASLEF drivers who are refusing to cross the picket line. Technically the company don’t know which union a driver belongs to and so I’m sure SWR are glad they’ve saved even more money.

That said (and I must stress this is only a rumour from overhead conversations between managers) that each contingency guard gets at least £200 per strike day, as well as a hotel if necessary or a highly inflated taxi price going long distances. The company are also not receiving as much revenue, so all in all strike days are costing the company more.

But isn't the government covering all of the dispute cost or will do so in due course as per thr franchise agreement. Or are there some costs the government aren't covering?

 

[kristiang85]

But isn't the government covering all of the dispute cost or will do so in due course as per thr franchise agreement. Or are there some costs the government aren't covering?

That's what I was thinking. If the franchise agreement says that they must do DOO, then they are losing revenue from strikes over DOO, then they must have had some guarantee from the government these costs would be subsidised?

 

[theironroad]

I was told by a SWR manager, who reads the forum. He has since drawn my attention to the critical responses, which he & I take seriously when they are from drivers.

He says, & I confirm he told me, that some drivers at some(note some) signing on points were sent home after an hour or so when it was clear there was no work they could cover & finish by their finishing time.
That is what happens every normal day at every TOC with sparemen.
There is no point in holding spare drivers to sit around if there is no prospect of them doing any work that shift.

An hour or so does not mean 60 mins. It means "an hour or so" & it only applied to those who had no prospect of any work to cover.

The main point of the post was that SWR was not unhappy to have RMT drivers on strike (at some depots) because they had no work for them anyway on strike days with reduced services, & it meant the strikers did not have to be paid for nothing by SWR.
Instead they were paid out of RMT member's contributions.

I'm beginning to think that your manager friend isn't a driver, resource or guards manager and probably comes from a department with no or little knowledge of traincrew.

Also, you do realise I hope that when people go on strike they don't get 'paid' by anyone. The RMT don't pay those going on strike, they may issue a small one off payment but it is a tiny fraction of normal pay.

We've now had people from several depots disputing you claims.

 

[theironroad]

Are there more strikes planned, other than this coming Saturday 15 Sept.

No more planned at this stage.

Only 15/9 remaining at moment.

 

[Carlisle]

The RMT don't pay those going on strike, they may issue a small one off payment but it is a tiny fraction of normal pay.

I’m pretty sure it was fairly widely reported Southern guards received more than a one off payment over the year or so of itheir ndustrial action, but happy to be corrected if wrong .

 

[dctraindriver]

That is what happens every normal day at every TOC with sparemen.
There is no point in holding spare drivers to sit around if there is no prospect of them doing any work that shift.

An hour or so does not mean 60 mins. It means "an hour or so" & it only applied to those who had no prospect of any work to cover.

The main point of the post was that SWR was not unhappy to have RMT drivers on strike (at some depots) because they had no work for them anyway on strike days with reduced services, & it meant the strikers did not have to be paid for nothing by SWR.
Instead they were paid out of RMT member's contributions.

Spare drivers or cover drivers are kept on even if there is no prospect of doing any work. The reason? Things can and do go wrong. A driver is paid for the shift, so should expect to be there for most of the shift, simple as that.

And striking guards aren’t being paid, they may receive a very small sum by the RMT but their strike days aren’t being paid in full........

 

[Monty]

I’m pretty sure it was reported Southern guards received more than a one off payment over the year or so of itheir ndustrial action, but happy to be corrected if wrong .

That may well be the case, we on SWR got a a £200 payment early this year and second £100 payment last month. That has so far been it.

But isn't the government covering all of the dispute cost or will do so in due course as per thr franchise agreement. Or are there some costs the government aren't covering?

Tbh it's not clear at all what costs if any the DfT are covering, I remember some media outlets running with the story a while back but I've seen no evidence that the direct financial cost is being reimbursed. That said that's another matter that people are not seeing and that is productivity, had a friendly chat with a guards manager I know quite well he basically said he is exhausted, he is having to cover long days during the action and balance his existing workload.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

I do not see what the RMT are trying to achieve it obviously relates to the 701 Metro fleet which will be operated as DCO with a non dispatch Guard on board presumably the current plan running as DOO in exceptional circumstances. These are shiny brand new purpose built trains running on high density frequent stop services. For the majority of SWR customers I would imagine they will be quite happy to hear there will be a Guard in the vestibule assisting them perhaps they could even sell and check tickets if the company would like them too. Guard open, guard close, based in the back cab seems like a pointless waste of valuable staff time which could be dedicated to assisting customers. This would only strengthen the argument especially because the nearby Southern Metro routes are operated by Driver only and no on board staff as the current situation is not particularly customer focused and there is many customers who would probably not notice a difference.

 

[theironroad]

I’m pretty sure it was fairly widely reported Southern guards received more than a one off payment over the year or so of itheir ndustrial action, but happy to be corrected if wrong .

I think 'monty’ has provided a more accurate answer.

Tbf, I should have said ad hoc payments rather than one off as I was aware there has been more than 1, but it's definitely not a regular RMT paycheck.

 

[Twotwo]

Strikes confirmed for 5/6th October....

 

[infobleep]

What disruption would strikes cause if they happened this Saturday when there is engineering works affecting Waterloo?

Would the disruption be worse because different timetables would have to be drawn up that were quite different from the usual strike ones or would it be less disruptive as less trains are running there anyway?

 

[Edders23]

I think strikes are as much about gaining publicity and support for the "cause" than bringing about disruption SWT management are the target not the general public

That said this has gone on so long that i wonder if either side is capable of changing the others mindset through this type of action

 

[Robertj21a]

I think strikes are as much about gaining publicity and support for the "cause" than bringing about disruption SWT management are the target not the general public

That said this has gone on so long that i wonder if either side is capable of changing the others mindset through this type of action

Can't imagine these strikes are doing anything to support their 'cause' but I suppose it does get them a bit of publicity. Most of the travelling public have probably given up bothering too much now - and found their own alternatives.

 

[CN75]

Can't imagine these strikes are doing anything to support their 'cause' but I suppose it does get them a bit of publicity. Most of the travelling public have probably given up bothering too much now - and found their own alternatives.

SWR have arguably run the best ‘strike day’ service of any of the TOCs given their limitation of having a guard on every train.

The RMT have a balancing act to achieve; too many strike days and the guards will give up and come into work in greater numbers. As the culture of fear of isolation for ever more at work is all part of these old school union tactics, once a guard has breached the strike once they have nothing left to lose from keeping on going in for any more. It’s a big risk. However, RMT obviously believe they are causing sustained fatigue for SWR management.

The next significant moment in this story will be the outcome of ASLEF and SWR’s discussions about the enforceability of the clause in all drivers’ contracts saying DOO is the normal method of operation across SWR, within the context of the overall class 701 introduction. The RMT’s current tactics will ensure they just lose more and more members and are not involved in any negotiations (to the level they wish at least).

 

[infobleep]

SWR have arguably run the best ‘strike day’ service of any of the TOCs given their limitation of having a guard on every train.

The RMT have a balancing act to achieve; too many strike days and the guards will give up and come into work in greater numbers. As the culture of fear of isolation for ever more at work is all part of these old school union tactics, once a guard has breached the strike once they have nothing left to lose from keeping on going in for any more. It’s a big risk. However, RMT obviously believe they are causing sustained fatigue for SWR management.

The next significant moment in this story will be the outcome of ASLEF and SWR’s discussions about the enforceability of the clause in all drivers’ contracts saying DOO is the normal method of operation across SWR, within the context of the overall class 701 introduction. The RMT’s current tactics will ensure they just lose more and more members and are not involved in any negotiations (to the level they wish at least).

Are they currently losing more members on SWR?

I suspect if they all got turned into OBSs, they would.but that isn't on the cards just yet. Who knows in time. Change of franchise and ven if same owner wins again.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think 'monty’ has provided a more accurate answer.

Tbf, I should have said ad hoc payments rather than one off as I was aware there has been more than 1, but it's definitely not a regular RMT paycheck.

Indeed. Even though RMT has higher membership subs than most TUs I doubt they are able to pay any more than a token gesture for each strike say.

 

[Goldfish62]

Can't imagine these strikes are doing anything to support their 'cause' but I suppose it does get them a bit of publicity. Most of the travelling public have probably given up bothering too much now - and found their own alternatives.

Yes, must be good news for car dealers, bad news for traffic congestion.

 

[Robertj21a]

Yes, must be good news for car dealers, bad news for traffic congestion.

True. Short-sighted but rather inevitable when you can't rely on public transport.

 

[TEW]

Are they currently losing more members on SWR?

Not especially, the number eligible to vote in the last ballot was broadly similar to the number eligible to vote in the previous one.

 

[TEW]

However, RMT obviously believe they are causing sustained fatigue for SWR management.

And they are. I don't know what effect it is having on higher management, somehow I doubt they are losing much sleeper, but it is having a huge impact on the lower management. They certainly do seem drained.