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Turntable in unknown industrial location c1926

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crowdundle

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Can anyone ID the location in the attached postcard? A railway turntable in an unknown location near some sort of heavy industrial site. Myros coal trucks can be seen.

A pencil note on the back says the image was taken during the general strike in 1926.

Mattresses can be seen in the turntable pit, whether strikers camping out or preventing the turntable being used is unclear.

Any suggestions welcome .
 

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Iskra

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Iskra

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And the mattresses in the turntable look like they have been arranged to be used for people to sit or lay on? Mattresses support the bed factory theory.
 

crowdundle

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And the mattresses in the turntable look like they have been arranged to be used for people to sit or lay on? Mattresses support the bed factory theory.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Myers Rose & Co were large scale coal merchants - don’t know if that was an extension of the bed manufacturing business or a different company.

The buildings depicted look like some kind of iron or steel works with blast furnaces, some sort of industry that would require a lot of coal.
 

Iskra

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Thanks for the replies so far.

Myers Rose & Co were large scale coal merchants - don’t know if that was an extension of the bed manufacturing business or a different company.

The buildings depicted look like some kind of iron or steel works with blast furnaces, some sort of industry that would require a lot of coal.

Hi, where have you got the coal merchants info from?

It's entirely possible they used their own wagons to transport coal.

Beds are made using iron and steel! There are mattresses in the picture.

Myers and rose coal merchants doesn't bring anything up in google. Myros can be found in the list of private wagon owners as Myers Rose & Co.

Myers & Rose Co made beds in London, at a large rail served factory with similarities to the one you have shown (2 chimneys are similar). The dates fit. This factory is in Vauxhall, near railways lines.

They still make beds today http://myersbeds.co.uk/about-us/
 

Iskra

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It could also be Vauxhall Iron Works, with the Myers wagon merely being a clue, trying to find a photo of that now. Vauxhall iron works eventually became Vauxhall cars.
 

Darandio

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Thank you for the clarification.

Myers coal wagons said 'Myers-Roses' on them though, not Myros?

Some were M R as well, it wasn't unusual to have multiple variations.

My hunch is that this is nowhere near London, but actually Round Oak Ironworks at Brierley Hill.
 

Iskra

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Interesting. Now you’ve got me looking at old steelworks! There are quite good photos of the one you mention and there doesn’t appear to be evidence of a turntable.

The closest in terms of buildings in the time period seems to be Skinninggrove (sp). But none of the ones I’ve looked at seem to have that fatter more distinctive chimney present.
 

randyrippley

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from http://www.newtonmyers.com/Beginnings.html

"The firm of Myers, Rose was registered in 1900 as Myers, Gilson & Rose Co. Ltd. and changed its name to Myers, Rose Co. Ltd. in 1903. It went into liquidation on 6th May 1918 and was taken over by Rose, Smith & Co. Ltd. The latter lasted until going into liquidation in 1947."

Clearly the photo dates from 1903 at the earliest. The general strike was 1926 -eight years after the company went into liquidation yet the coal wagons still carry the Myros branding. Puts a question on the date.
Building looks like a coke works to me: furnaces in the centre of the photo, processing plant in the warehouse. To the right rear is what looks like a conveyor, though it could be an elevated railway. Behind that is a dock or river, with a warehouse on the far bank.
Immediately behind the Myros truck is a pile of ironwork which looks like some kind of tar distillation kit. My guess is coal entered on the conveyor from ships on the dock, coke left in rail wagons. I don't think it captured gas - there's no gasholder. And no sign of any electrical gear so unlikely to be a power station


The mattresses are clearly in the turntable pit to give some shelter to the sleepers - but were they pickets or volunteer workers?
The strangest thing about the whole picture though is how clean it all looks. Steam railway, coke works, dockside yet no dust dirt ash or filth anywhere.

As to location, did any of the Myers companies have a coke works in London?
.............................................................................................................
edit - the text I've put into italics is clearly wrong given subsequent findings
 
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pdeaves

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The mattresses are clearly in the turntable pit to give some shelter to the sleepers - but were they pickets or volunteer workers?
The strangest thing about the whole picture though is how clean it all looks. Steam railway, coke works, dockside yet no dust dirt ash or filth anywhere.
With these elements, could it be a publicity photo to accompany a sort of 'then equivalent' to a press release?
 

krus_aragon

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With these elements, could it be a publicity photo to accompany a sort of 'then equivalent' to a press release?
If it were staged, how would one explain the somewhat hap-hazard collection of matresses in the turntable well?
 

pdeaves

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If it were staged, how would one explain the somewhat hap-hazard collection of matresses in the turntable well?
Don't know, but they do seem rather orderly-placed (at least the rolled ones do) and there's no sign of any life anywhere. I know they had very long exposure times then, but I would expect to see some sort of evidence of people (blurred if they moved, but still there) if it wasn't staged.
 

Taunton

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Turntables are actually quite unusual outside loco depots that have tender engines, or sometimes close to major termini. I actually can't think of any industrial premises that had them. It's a turntable for turning locos round, not as in a roundhouse for distributing them to multiple radiating tracks. It also appears to have no turning mechanism; now "hand-push" tables were not unknown, but there don't even appear to be the handrails associated with those.

It's a big gasworks and normally on such an internal railway with their own small locos and lots of ground, a triangle would suffice for any turning rather than the expense of a turntable.

I see Myers were a coal & coke merchant. They would have to collect the coke from somewhere, and a coke works is the obvious place. Major gasworks took coal in and generated a range of products from it, gas obviously, but also coke, tar, and some chemicals. Some of the coke was then used in fuelling the process, but more was sold. Wagons with "M R" on them were extremely common, this being the Midland Railway, who I believe had the largest mineral wagon stock of all, and a private company would have to avoid that label.

That the company named on the wagon was renamed some years beforehand is nothing; at nationalisation in 1948 there were still plenty of wagons with pre-grouping names on them; it woud only get changed at (infrequent) full repaints.

Why does the track approaching the turntable appear to have a third rail in the centre of it?

A good mystery.
 
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krus_aragon

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Don't know, but they do seem rather orderly-placed (at least the rolled ones do) and there's no sign of any life anywhere. I know they had very long exposure times then, but I would expect to see some sort of evidence of people (blurred if they moved, but still there) if it wasn't staged.

I think we may be working on different ideas of "staged" photos. I was suggesting that if the location had been cleaned of soot and grime, it would be odd to put matresses in the well in an irregular manner (a mix rolled, folded and laid out). A photographer might still direct people to stand in a particular location (or get out of the way) regardless.

With regards to long exposure times, don't forget that by 1926 photohraphy was almost a century old. Commercial films of the 20s and 30s could have speed ratings of 20-70 ASA (ISO). That's a bit slow by modern standards, but still practical to work with, especially in good sunlight. A professional photographer would probably want a tripod to minimise camera shake, but there'd be no need for people to stand statue still for seconds at a time.
 

Shrewbly

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A very interesting photo - I'd agree with this...

The strangest thing about the whole picture though is how clean it all looks.

It's the cleanest looking turntable I've ever seen - still if you're going to sleep in a turntable pit you'd want a clean one! Could it have been newly built, or not quite finished?
 

theageofthetra

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Fascinating picture. What I find odd is what sort of industrial location would use tender locos and require a turntable?- tank locos didn't generally need turning.

I wonder though if an existing tank loco (s) had been converted to gas firing with a gas tank 'tender'? Which would require turning and may explain the clean and new looking turntable?- pure guesswork but my be possible.
 

John Webb

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Turntables are actually quite unusual outside loco depots that have tender engines, or sometimes close to major termini. I actually can't think of any industrial premises that had them. It's a turntable for turning locos round, not as in a roundhouse for distributing them to multiple radiating tracks. It also appears to have no turning mechanism; now "hand-push" tables were not unknown, but there don't even appear to be the handrails associated with those.
There is a handle at each end of the turntable - the one nearest the camera leaning thus /. I think this is in the 'braked position' and is moved forward to release the brake and provide a means to push?
 

randyrippley

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Any chance its a turntable for a single-ended electric tram with centre rail contact? To some extent that would help explain the cleanliness

edit - if you assume I'm wrong about it being close to a dock, could it be a late version of the City & South London's depot/power station at Stockwell? That would account for the centre rail
 
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krus_aragon

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Any chance its a turntable for a single-ended electric tram with centre rail contact? To some extent that would help explain the cleanliness
I see the centre rail on the far end of the turntable, but weren't most trams designed for bidirectional operation?
 

30907

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I see the centre rail on the far end of the turntable, but weren't most trams designed for bidirectional operation?
In the UK, yes. However, I don't think this is a tramway.

The central 3rd rail appears to be on the tracks in the left foreground, which rather confirms randyrippley's suggestion of an electric railway depot and power station.
A hunch led me to the Central London Railway and a Google image search brings up this image, which is clearly taken in front of the same building - which must be Wood Lane power station.
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1903EnV96-p019.jpg
The CLR was initially worked by steeple-cab locos, but motor coaches were soon introduced, and I suppose there was an occasional need to turn one?
 

theageofthetra

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Thanks- fascinating photo. A bit of research shows that all but two of the original Steeplecabs were scrapped- compaints about vibration from owners of buildings above due to the locos heavy weight lead to their demise. Two were however kept for shunting duties at Wood Lane so they would presumably have been using that turntable- though why they needed turning needs further research.
 

randyrippley

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http://www.lurs.org.uk/articles11_htm_files/02 nov 11 THE GENERAL STRIKE OF 1926.pdf

"On Tuesday 4 May the Underground services were almost non-existent, with just 33 station staff and 6 guards turning up for work. The Underground Group issued a public appeal for volunteers (as well as asking their administrative staff if they could help). This had been done before during a strike in 1919 and was very successful. The BBC broadcast the appeal, and an “overwhelming response”was received. Volunteers to replace workers at the Lots Road and Wood Lane power stations started work immediately, assisted by more naval ratings. A training programme was immediately started for motormen, gatemen, liftmen, and engineers, with twelve training centres established. By 18.00 sufficient current was being generated to allow a shuttle service to be operated on the Central London Railway between Liverpool Street and Wood Lane, with a flat fare of 3d being charged. This was set to deter people from travelling short distances, as well as to simplify the booking procedure for the volunteer staff helping in the ticket offices"

Seems likely the bedding was for the strike-breakers.
 
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