West Lothian buses

[TheEastCoaster]

Their figures will show exactly how underused they are and believe you me they won't make for good reading for those in charge of LCB .

We’ll see how it plays out in the end though I can only comment on the X27/X28 as that’s the only service I’ve seen, and it’s usually got a fair bunch during the day.

In good news however Lothian have announced a 5 dayticket bundle for the m-ticket app for a reasonable discounted price

£17.50-5x CountryWest tickets (Saves £7.50)
£25.00-5x LothianWest tickets(Saves £12.50)

On top of them altering the fare zone at the Tesco centre for Bathgate/Armadale residents and extending the current 20 day ticket bundle till the end of the year it’s clear they are listening to feedback and trying to attract more customers over. now with a weeks worth of daytickets too. Who knows how it’ll work out? What will happen next, a new ridacard??

 

[In Focus]

We’ll see how it plays out in the end though I can only comment on the X27/X28 as that’s the only service I’ve seen, and it’s usually got a fair bunch during the day.

In good news however Lothian have announced a 5 dayticket bundle for the m-ticket app for a reasonable discounted price

£17.50-5x CountryWest tickets (Saves £7.50)
£25.00-5x LothianWest tickets(Saves £12.50)

On top of them altering the fare zone at the Tesco centre for Bathgate/Armadale residents and extending the current 20 day ticket bundle till the end of the year it’s clear they are listening to feedback and trying to attract more customers over. now with a weeks worth of daytickets too. Who knows how it’ll work out? What will happen next, a new ridacard??

Or is the fact that LCB have realised losses are out of control and this is a panic measure to try and alter the situation and they are trying to tempt more passengers.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Or is the fact that LCB have realised losses are out of control and this is a panic measure to try and alter the situation and they are trying to tempt more passengers.

Either way if it means more passangers then that’s good that they’re listening to feedback, especially since it’s the closest thing to a weekly ticket you’ll get currently at the moment.

Now we play the waiting game...

 

[In Focus]

Either way if it means more passangers then that’s good that they’re listening to feedback, especially since it’s the closest thing to a weekly ticket you’ll get currently at the moment.

Now we play the waiting game...

Yes but 17.50 for 5 days or 18.00for 7 days
25.00 for 5 days or 26.00 for 7days .
And I would imagine next move will be for First to make to reduce their weekly and daily tickets , great news for Passengers all round

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

(10)103-107 as I suspected are in the process of being repainted into LC livery, is this Phase 3 or the potential that the 63 is going green?

 

[Observer]

Could also be used for the quieter routes such as the 275.

 

[overthewater]

We’ll see how it plays out in the end though I can only comment on the X27/X28 as that’s the only service I’ve seen, and it’s usually got a fair bunch during the day.

In good news however Lothian have announced a 5 dayticket bundle for the m-ticket app for a reasonable discounted price

£17.50-5x CountryWest tickets (Saves £7.50)
£25.00-5x LothianWest tickets(Saves £12.50)

On top of them altering the fare zone at the Tesco centre for Bathgate/Armadale residents and extending the current 20 day ticket bundle till the end of the year it’s clear they are listening to feedback and trying to attract more customers over. now with a weeks worth of daytickets too. Who knows how it’ll work out? What will happen next, a new ridacard??

Sounds to me LCB are desperate.. and those offers are still crap.

Yes but 17.50 for 5 days or 18.00for 7 days
25.00 for 5 days or 26.00 for 7days .
And I would imagine next move will be for First to make to reduce their weekly and daily tickets , great news for Passengers all round

I think First will bring down the cost of the M tickets only to match LCB and then say who look 2 extra days for free with First.

(10)103-107 as I suspected are in the process of being repainted into LC livery, is this Phase 3 or the potential that the 63 is going green?

Would not surprise me If there end up 275, there might be better off cutting the service back to Livingston and just joining it up with 287..

 

[TheEastCoaster]

(10)103-107 as I suspected are in the process of being repainted into LC livery, is this Phase 3 or the potential that the 63 is going green?

I have two guesses

* Probably either the 287 or 275 going to single decker duties with the doubles being used for the X27/X28 with an increased frequency

Or

* Lothian Country are extending to Linlithgow and it’s the only West Lothian service with a low bridge on the route as far as I’m aware.

Is the 63 a busy enough service to justify double deckers? I’ve seen them thrown on the route sometimes at random times, surely for Kirkliston residents it must be well used.

 

[In Focus]

Just been down St johns hospital 5 LCB and no more than 3 people in total , wow they must be shelling some money on this venture ,recent rumours of a loss of around 1 million in first phase since August won't be far off the mark and the fact they borrowed money to get this venture up an running can't be sitting too easy with those involved at this point.
Has to be added though First really don't look capable of capitalising with some absolute idiotic routes and a seemingly steadfast refusal to listen to public concerns over vital areas ,St Johns, Dedridge West etc.

 

[overthewater]

Most of the public like the faster buses to Edinburgh, ie missisng out Dedridge west, while the local 27 to that part of town are always empty.

There still 7 weeks away if anything if phrase 3 so why repaint the buses now? its more likely there need more reliable buses on the route because of the breakdowns.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Just been down St johns hospital 5 LCB and no more than 3 people in total , wow they must be shelling some money on this venture ,recent rumours of a loss of around 1 million in first phase since August won't be far off the mark and the fact they borrowed money to get this venture up an running can't be sitting too easy with those involved at this point.
Has to be added though First really don't look capable of capitalising with some absolute idiotic routes and a seemingly steadfast refusal to listen to public concerns over vital areas ,St Johns, Dedridge West etc.

A £1M loss really doesn't shock me considering from what i can see most of the buses just carry ghosts, over a time period of around 2 months i can see how that adds up.

It's ok though... the overpriced tour network in the city will fund their endless vanity projects!

 

[Surreyman]

Been following this Discussion for a while and am really not sure whether LCB West Lothian expansion is successful or not (I am 400+ miles away so don't pretend to know the area but I do get up to Edinburgh/Stirling 3/4 times a year).
I have always had the impression that Livingston and Falkirk were Firsts profitable areas and Stirling was the weak part?
What is the score? Have LCB taken passengers off First or not?

 

[overthewater]

Very mixed bag..

 

[overthewater]

I was at Livingston bus stance again, and no one is hitting home runs here, I have seen, what ever comes first fills up. Lothian are not nicking alot of passengers, its also for what I can see generating new passengers from the car drivers. Communtors have not switched, but buses are running empty into Edinburgh, Broxburn - edinburgh really dont need 15mins service.

 

[In Focus]

Been following this Discussion for a while and am really not sure whether LCB West Lothian expansion is successful or not (I am 400+ miles away so don't pretend to know the area but I do get up to Edinburgh/Stirling 3/4 times a year).
I have always had the impression that Livingston and Falkirk were Firsts profitable areas and Stirling was the weak part?
What is the score? Have LCB taken passengers off First or not?

Your partly correct in that Livingston made small profits ,Falkirk not so great and larbert reliant on a lot of School contract work to balance the book's Bannockburn (Stirling) had a monopoly on the Uni which kept them ticking along.
Are LCB taking passengers ? On first phase I'd say No although pensioner concessions would probably be the main area if they were , on 2nd phase which has only begun the 280 has taken a fair few in its early stages the 287 hasn't done any real damage to First 21 service ,mainly due to the crazy route they have taken with 287.

 

[In Focus]

I was at Livingston bus stance again, and no one is hitting home runs here, I have seen, what ever comes first fills up. Lothian are not nicking alot of passengers, its also for what I can see generating new passengers from the car drivers. Communtors have not switched, but buses are running empty into Edinburgh, Broxburn - edinburgh really dont need 15mins service.

Too many buses ,not enough passengers nothing will never change that in West Lothian and with no nightlife to speak off what companies make during peak time and centre opening has to cover all those journeys after 7pm as buses are dead .

 

[overthewater]

The only people that will be traveling around that time will from the sky area.

 

[In Focus]

The only people that will be traveling around that time will from the sky area.

is how they travel lol

 

[Darklord8899]

.... maybe the best thing to do with WL is raize to the ground and start again *angelic face*

 

[In Focus]

.... maybe the best thing to do with WL is raize to the ground and start again *angelic face*

Or build a wall and keep the weegies to the East of it lol

 

[overthewater]

Is there any way this could end well for both parties?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Is there any way this could end well for both parties?

I think this is doing nothing but damage to both operators, more so to Lothian. I think the only way it will be resolved is once Lothian realise they've bitten off more than they can chew. First could pull out, but as i've said already i think that would be a big mistake for them, they need to stand their ground.

 

[In Focus]

Is there any way this could end well for both parties?

No , West Lothian cannot sustain both companies and it won't end well for smaller operators either as a whole lot of currently tendered work shall go and EM Horsburgh already looking at changing service 31 which serves part of LCB 287 route.
First will probably tender for school contracts to try and recoup the lost revenue I'd imagine with some tenders up for renewal that seems a likely route for them to take.

 

[overthewater]

No , West Lothian cannot sustain both companies and it won't end well for smaller operators either as a whole lot of currently tendered work shall go and EM Horsburgh already looking at changing service 31 which serves part of LCB 287 route.
First will probably tender for school contracts to try and recoup the lost revenue I'd imagine with some tenders up for renewal that seems a likely route for them to take.

The only losers would be SD travel and EM, and I would BE VERY surprised if the council took off any council routes, there did like going it before, and that is in writing but there is new woman in control so could it all change? Tough cheese if the companies lose out, im sorry but if the council can make savings it will mean other important route can stay and the people will be happy ie like Linlithgow local...

These are the route that are under threat...

• 1 - Whitburn - Livingston ( one early morning run on Saturdays)
• 5A/B - Bathgate cirulers -
• 7 - Queensferry or Winchburgh - Uphall or St Johns's Hosp
• 11 - Livingston - sky - Bathgate
• 27 - Edinburgh - Livingston or Allanton - early morning 5am run

• 28A - Oakbank Industrial Estate - Birniehill

• 31 - Linlithgow - Livingston

If 31 comes out of Wester inch then it could save a bus and do a anti clockwise trip down Menzies Road, and another bus could be saved if 5A/B comes out aswell.

 

[DunsBus]

I can't see this working out at all for Lothian - I'm old enough to remember the last time they ventured out to the west, in the early nineties. By the end of 1994 they had admitted defeat against SMT and withdrawn from West Lothian.

It's a completely different market out there and from what I've seen so far (and read on here) First are holding their ground. The mass switch from First to Lothian simply hasn't materialised, and nor is it likely to materialise. Once the losses start stacking up I think that Lothian will realise, like the last time, that West Lothian has been one step too far and pull out.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Speaking to a few drivers i know in the area, and they all seem to be saying stuff along the same sort of lines...

"First are still holding their own with Lothian running mostly empty", it also seems that most of these few Lothian passengers are car users and over 60s on the 275. It's also been highlighted that the Ex-London stock is proving unreliable and disliked, with complaints of the vehicles being too jercky.

As i've said already Lothian really need a bit of a reality check, i think management had the idea stuck in their head that people would switch to the "Lothian brand", when most of the general public don't have that mentality, people like to stick to what they know and dislike having to change their travel routine. The best outcome is for First to ride out and wait for Lothian to eventually realise they've made a mistake... Hard for the vain management i know!

If it wasn't for their seriously overpriced tours they probably would be in financial difficulty by now. That being said the tax payer would take the brunt of the costs anyway!

 

[oldman]

We don't know whether LCB are meeting their own targets - I don't suppose they thought there would be a mass desertion by First passengers, but they would be hoping to force First into the red, which only needs 10-15% of the business.

 

[In Focus]

The only losers would be SD travel and EM, and I would BE VERY surprised if the council took off any council routes, there did like going it before, and that is in writing but there is new woman in control so could it all change? Tough cheese if the companies lose out, im sorry but if the council can make savings it will mean other important route can stay and the people will be happy ie like Linlithgow local...

These are the route that are under threat...

• 1 - Whitburn - Livingston ( one early morning run on Saturdays)
• 5A/B - Bathgate cirulers -
• 7 - Queensferry or Winchburgh - Uphall or St Johns's Hosp
• 11 - Livingston - sky - Bathgate
• 27 - Edinburgh - Livingston or Allanton - early morning 5am run

• 28A - Oakbank Industrial Estate - Birniehill

• 31 - Linlithgow - Livingston

If 31 comes out of Wester inch then it could save a bus and do a anti clockwise trip down Menzies Road, and another bus could be saved if 5A/B comes out aswell.

Blue bus also and your missing one vital point with your ",tough cheese" about job losses ,the competition commission and the monopolies and mergers might have something to say about "big company " forcing smaller operators to the wall ,First have been heavily punished before for such practice, and I'm pretty sure Lothian were recently losers in a case with a smaller company ? I'd be very surprised if one of the smaller operators does not issue a notice of complaint .

 

[In Focus]

We don't know whether LCB are meeting their own targets - I don't suppose they thought there would be a mass desertion by First passengers, but they would be hoping to force First into the red, which only needs 10-15% of the business.

They are not even close to their targets, they also expected First in Livingston and Horsburgh to be totally starved of drivers ,that's not happened despite all LCB PR and First are operating all duties (out with breakdowns)and still recruiting .
So I'd doubt the hope was to force First into the red as with the backing of group that's highly unlikely,I'd guess more likely they envisaged a similar scenario to East with Dalkeith and Musselburgh type sell out but it seems First are not interested in losing Livingston.

 

[smtglasgow]

If Lothian had tried this in 2012/13 when First were open to selling and/or walking away from poorly performing operations, they might have succeeded. First Scotland East is a different beast these days – they’ve ditched most of the deadwood and the hacking back of the Stirling network suggests that they’re planning on sticking around here too. I still think Lothian have misjudged things badly. Their West Lothian plans only make sense if First leave the stage – and it’ll take more than we’ve seen so far to make that happen. One caveat: Lothian have deep pockets and don't have to meet City expectations, so if the management decide to dig in and take the financial hit, they might still win – but it won’t be pretty.