XC HSTs being shortened?

[GNERman]

Not true at all. Most times I've travelled on the XC HSTs we have had to wait outside stations for platforms, particularly places like Sheffield, Leeds etc.

whcih surely means that xc's timings are very slow and they could be made a whole lot quicker...

 

[royaloak]

But what about the passenger charter figures.
I was on a XC HST (2+8 ) a few weeks ago that was 36 minutes late at Leeds (due to some idiotic train regulation at Sheffield) but was early arriving at Glasgow because of all the slack built into the timetable.

 

[jamesontheroad]

And as for Cross Country - its widely suspected that its a matter of "when" rather then "if" they do an NXEC.

Hmm. That got me thinking...

 

[asylumxl]

The line can't be straight. It has to zig zag all over the place cos it's XC .

 

[MCR247]

Hmm. That got me thinking...

What font do they use?

 

[jamesontheroad]

What font do they use?

Something obscure and probably especially created (or adapted from an existing set) for ease of copyright. That pixelated attempt was done entirely in Photoshop.

 

[Helvellyn]

What font do they use?

Yep, they couldn't just go with Rail Alphabet could they!

 

[Wyvern]

whcih surely means that xc's timings are very slow and they could be made a whole lot quicker...

That's how Virgin got the service punctual for the first time in living memory.

I remember in the sixties I would get to Derby station on a Sunday night at eight o'clock in the evening in time to catch the 7,30 to Bristol.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Just on the 0900 XC ex-Glasgow Central. Nice to see an HST on a Saturday, although coach D has been removed from this set. Seat reservations for D still issued, located now in F for confusion.

 

[royaloak]

Coach D has been removed from all the sets now.

 

[First ScotRail]

Can I just quote what Arriva said about XC in their most recent Management Statement:

"UK Trains

Passenger revenue growth for the 42 weeks ended 24 October was 1.3 per cent for our CrossCountry franchise, although for the last six weeks it has been 3.8 per cent.

Outlook

In the short term we continue to focus on meeting the challenges posed by economic conditions. Our careful targeting of cost reduction measures anticipates the beneficial impact of fuel cost reductions from 2010 and, from November 2011, protection from shortfalls in projected passenger revenue in the CrossCountry franchise."

This suggests to me that things are picking up, of course issues will arise due to falling passenger numbers (as they say) however I really don't think we are going to have another EastCoast fiasco on our hands with XC.

Remember XC is revenue protected by the DFT (like FCC and FGW) from 2011.

 

[The Planner]

In a bit of a twisted way, they are being victims of their own success. Their PPM and overall performance is generally good enough for them not to get payouts from NR, if anything they are paying money back. You would be suprised just how much TOCs rely on NR ballsing up and getting the schedule 4 and 8 payments

 

[MCR247]

This suggests to me that things are picking up, of course issues will arise due to falling passenger numbers (as they say) however I really don't think we are going to have another EastCoast fiasco on our hands with XC.

Remember XC is revenue protected by the DFT (like FCC and FGW) from 2011.

Sorry if this question has an obvious answer, but what does revenue protected by the DfT mean?

 

[royaloak]

It is commonly called cap and collar, basically the collar is if revenue falls a certain % below forecasts then the DaFT will make up the difference, ie the cap is set at 5% below projections and revenue is 9% down the DaFT make up the other 4%.
The cap is if revenue is a certain % above forecasts then the DaFT take anything above that, ie collar set at 5% above forecasts and revenue is 9% above then the DaFT take the other 4%.

 

[MCR247]

Thanks for explaining

 

[Moodster020]

Railway logic always seems to defy logic.

Was in Edinburgh last night & saw a group of some 200-300 people gather for a train to Berwick. Then turned up a little 4car bus & i laughed as it went, seeing all the passengers crammed in like sardines.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Just to continue the discussions, without coach D the HSTs do sometimes struggle. It's Friday night, on the 1705 ex-Chesterfield (1221 ex-Plymouth). It's an HST, sans D coach but lots of annoyed passengers with reservations for D, and it's been standing room only Birmingham New Street -> Leeds.

 

[jopsuk]

Railway logic always seems to defy logic.

Was in Edinburgh last night & saw a group of some 200-300 people gather for a train to Berwick. Then turned up a little 4car bus & i laughed as it went, seeing all the passengers crammed in like sardines.

hmm, as built they had 253 seats (in an airport-express config), and they've been rejigged as "commuter" units I believe. Standing IS acceptable for short journeys- first stop is only five minutes out, full journey is just over half an hour, and in the evning rush hour few people will be boarding at the intermediate stations, mainly alighting.

What's the problem here?

 

[90019]

hmm, as built they had 253 seats (in an airport-express config), and they've been rejigged as "commuter" units I believe.

I'm not sure they have.

They certainly still have the space between the cab and first set of doors at one end of the train which was used for baggage when they were airport trains. (Unless this has changed recently?)

 

[jopsuk]

Even if I am mistaken about them being rejigged (I'm sure I've seen a reference to them having 2+3 seating?) a 253 capacity train is probably about the right size for "200-300" people on a short journey where a lot will get off at the first stop, yes?

 

[Royston Vasey]

Railway logic always seems to defy logic.

Was in Edinburgh last night & saw a group of some 200-300 people gather for a train to Berwick. Then turned up a little 4car bus & i laughed as it went, seeing all the passengers crammed in like sardines.

Nothing different to commuter trains all over the country! Spend some time in London at 5.30 on a weeknight!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Was in Edinburgh last night & saw a group of some 200-300 people gather for a train to Berwick. Then turned up a little 4car bus & i laughed as it went, seeing all the passengers crammed in like sardines.

Which train are you referring to? This might not be a matter of choice of stock but frequency of services.
I've often remarked before, I think it is poor that there are only 2 trains going south from Edinburgh after 6:40pm.
The 19:00 EC to London and the 21:00 EC to York.
And that's the lot!
No good for a night out in Edin if you live near Dunbar.

The last XC services South from Edin are just after 5pm and 6pm.

. . . . a 253 capacity train is probably about the right size for "200-300" people on a short journey where a lot will get off at the first stop, yes?

and that's another of my gripes - the only other stop before Berwick on the 19:00 and 21:00 is Dunbar (half way to Berwick)

The XC services also only have the one stop at Dunbar before Berwick.

Or did you mean NORTH Berwick? That is served by short trains, and enjoys a staggering three trains to N.Berwick after 6:40pm (tho the latest is still too early for getting home after a show, leaving at 9:40pm)

 

[MCR247]

The 19:00 EC to London and the 21:00 EC to York.
And that's the lot!
No good for a night out in Edin if you live near Dunbar.

The last XC services South from Edin are just after 5pm and 6pm.

Thats what annoys me with long distance services. Places at the end of routes will have their last service at around 5-7pm, and places in the middle will have a service leaving at about 9pm. But I suppose in the am its the other way round

 

[starrymarkb]

Which train are you referring to? This might not be a matter of choice of stock but frequency of services.
I've often remarked before, I think it is poor that there are only 2 trains going south from Edinburgh after 6:40pm.
The 19:00 EC to London and the 21:00 EC to York.
And that's the lot!
No good for a night out in Edin if you live near Dunbar.

The last XC services South from Edin are just after 5pm and 6pm.

and that's another of my gripes - the only other stop before Berwick on the 19:00 and 21:00 is Dunbar (half way to Berwick)

The XC services also only have the one stop at Dunbar before Berwick.

Or did you mean NORTH Berwick? That is served by short trains, and enjoys a staggering three trains to N.Berwick after 6:40pm (tho the latest is still too early for getting home after a show, leaving at 9:40pm)

The 4 coach ~300ish seat 322s? Try Devon, Wales or Northern England where 100 seat Pacers are used on similar services

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The 4 coach ~300ish seat 322s? Try Devon, Wales or Northern England where 100 seat Pacers are used on similar services

Yes, starrymarkb, I am very much aware of that. I'm sure we all are, thanks.
But my question to Moodster020 was based on his claim to have seen "a little 4car bus" in Edinburgh at night going to Berwick. My post pointed out that the only services that fit that route description are the EC at 19:00 and 21:00, both of which are 9 cars, of course.
Perhaps he meant the early evening XC service to Birmingham?
Then I was responding to jopsuk's question "a 253 capacity train is probably about the right size for "200-300" people on a short journey where a lot will get off at the first stop, yes?" To reply to that, we have to note that the first stop is Dunbar (25 mins and not so busy) and the next is Berwick itself (45mins out)

 

[jopsuk]

I have to say, I'd assumed he meant North Berwick... I think my brain inserted the word "North" into the post, and frankly, I reckon that's what he was actually meaning.