Longest journey operated by a steam tank in BR days

[delt1c]

just wondering what the longest scheduled service was operated by Tank engines in BR days. Looking and normal rosterd services for tanks not substitions for tender engines or special? excursions or railtours

 

[30907]

In the London area, the longest (by time at least) would have been Victoria or London Bridge - East Grinstead - T Wells W (standard 4MT). Paddington - Oxford stoppers with a 61xx would also be a possibility, but I don't know if these were through engine workings.
Towards the end, the S and D was also in the hands of 4MTs but I don't know if there were any actual throughout workings. Okehampton to Padstow also.
ISTR that the Central Wales also ended up with them, and that's much further!

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Machynlleth - Pwllheli? just under 60 miles...45xx and later 800xx and 820xx. I doubt whether they were rostered from Shrewsbury.

 

[IanH440]

do you mean to add " without taking water"?

 

[Ash Bridge]

In the London area, the longest (by time at least) would have been Victoria or London Bridge - East Grinstead - T Wells W (standard 4MT). Paddington - Oxford stoppers with a 61xx would also be a possibility, but I don't know if these were through engine workings.
Towards the end, the S and D was also in the hands of 4MTs but I don't know if there were any actual throughout workings. Okehampton to Padstow also.
ISTR that the Central Wales also ended up with them, and that's much further!

Just wondering if any of those Okehamton to Padstow and return workings could have started or finished at Exeter Central 30907, or were they perhaps in the hands of mogul 2-6-0s.?

 

[Cowley]

Which type of Tank would have the biggest coal carrying capacity?
The BR 80xxx class had a pretty large bunker, but were there some ex LNER or LMS types that had larger ones?
I know this doesn’t necessarily equate to the length of turns that they were allocated to, but I’d be interested to know which class could theoretically cover (if the terrain was similar) the highest distance before needing more coal.

 

[70014IronDuke]

IIRC, an 82xxx tank was used on a Waterloo - Salisbury slow on the last Saturday of Southern steam. That's around 80 miles. Not a regular turn, it was turned out due to a failure of the train engine on Nine Elms. It was a long time ago though. I wasn't there that weekend - something I read.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Which type of Tank would have the biggest coal carrying capacity?
The BR 80xxx class had a pretty large bunker, but were there some ex LNER or LMS types that had larger ones?
I know this doesn’t necessarily equate to the length of turns that they were allocated to, but I’d be interested to know which class could theoretically cover (if the terrain was similar) the highest distance before needing more coal.

I'm guessing it may be the LNER V1/V3 Class 2-6-2Ts at 4.5 tons coal capacity, although I'll definitely stand to be corrected on this, I think the GWR 2-8-0Ts weren't so far of at 4 tons for some class members.

 

[Cowley]

I'm guessing it may be the LNER V1/V3 Class 2-6-2Ts at 4.5 tons coal capacity, although I'll definitely stand to be corrected on this, I think the GWR 2-8-0Ts weren't so far of at 4 tons for some class members.

Thanks Mr Bridge. I’m thinking that the GWR 72xx class had a massive bunker capacity (6 tons or so). That would’ve been very useful plodding up and down the valleys all day long.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Thanks Mr Bridge. I’m thinking that the GWR 72xx class had a massive bunker capacity (6 tons or so). That would’ve been very useful plodding up and down the valleys all day long.

Ah of course, that must be correct, I was thinking of the smaller version GW 2-8-0Ts.

 

[Spartacus]

Some of the LNER's 4-6-2T locos had quite a large capacity, 5 tons in the case of the A7, and the later L1s carried 4.5.

 

[Cowley]

The Large Praries that worked from Paddington to Oxford obviously had quite a long run, but would any of those services have carried on to Banbury?

 

[30907]

Just wondering if any of those Okehamton to Padstow and return workings could have started or finished at Exeter Central 30907, or were they perhaps in the hands of mogul 2-6-0s.?

Checked with the relevant Irwell Press book and the only through train (apart from the ACE which got a Pacific), the 3.13pm Up Passenger and Perishables, was a common 4MTT working at the end. I don't know how it was worked East of Okehampton though, or indeed if it still did by 1964. Previously it was non stop to Exeter, lost its passenger stock, and continued to London.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Checked with the relevant Irwell Press book and the only through train (apart from the ACE which got a Pacific), the 3.13pm Up Passenger and Perishables, was a common 4MTT working at the end. I don't know how it was worked East of Okehampton though, or indeed if it still did by 1964. Previously it was non stop to Exeter, lost its passenger stock, and continued to London.

That's interesting, only ever saw pictures of that one whilst still in the hands of the T9s, sorry to keep things slightly off topic but what would the motive power have been during the intervening years after the T9s were withdrawn until the 4MTs took over?

 

[Cowley]

That's interesting, only ever saw pictures of that one whilst still in the hands of the T9s, sorry to keep things slightly off topic but what would the motive power have been during the intervening years after the T9s were withdrawn until the 4MTs took over?

Would it have been an N class? The preserved one - 31874 was a regular performer down here around then I think?

 

[Bevan Price]

Motive power west of Exeter (ex-SR lines) in the last years of steam were Class N 2-6-0s and Bulleid Light Pacifics (WC/BB Class), with some BR standards. However, even by 1960, some Diesel Hydraulics (D63xx /Class 22) were starting to appear. I think that most steam had gone from the area by 1963/1964.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Would it have been an N class? The preserved one - 31874 was a regular performer down here around then I think?

Motive power west of Exeter (ex-SR lines) in the last years of steam were Class N 2-6-0s and Bulleid Light Pacifics (WC/BB Class), with some BR standards. However, even by 1960, some Diesel Hydraulics (D63xx /Class 22) were starting to appear. I think that most steam had gone from the area by 1963/1964.

Thankyou both.

 

[Dr_Paul]

My dad recalls long coal trains on the GWR main line pulled by a hefty GWR tank loco coming up from South Wales towards London; this was during the last war so pre-BR, but maybe this continued after nationalisation. As someone said above, the big GWR tank locos had a sizeable water and coal capacity.

 

[Bevan Price]

My dad recalls long coal trains on the GWR main line pulled by a hefty GWR tank loco coming up from South Wales towards London; this was during the last war so pre-BR, but maybe this continued after nationalisation. As someone said above, the big GWR tank locos had a sizeable water and coal capacity.

The RCTS History (series) of GWR locos confirms that the 72xx Class 2-8-2T had 6 tons coal capacity, and 42XX Class 2-8-0T had 3 tons. However, both were designed for freight duties, and unless there had been a failure, it would be uncommon (but not unknown) to find them on passenger work.

Unfortunately, no data are shown for the coal capacity of any of the GWR 2-6-2T classes (4100/5100/6100/4500 etc.)

 

[30907]

Another couple of fairly lengthy routes: the Cambrian Coast line (45xx later BR3) and Middlesborough - Whitby West Cliff - Scarborough.

Going back to the Large Prairies at Paddington - I've had a look at the 1958 timetable which is steam era, and while there are a couple of Paddington-Didcot-Banbury workings, they are semi-fast not stoppers, and I wouldn't have expected a tank on those - but I might well be wrong.

Thanks for the reminders of the 282Ts on coal from South Wales - that must count as the longest distance for freight.

 

[Taunton]

The Central Wales line had BR 80xxx 2-6-4T allocated for the last couple of steam years 1963-4, until dmus took over. They were allocated to both Shrewsbury and Llanelli, and worked right through, must have been a challenge for coal capacity. There was no intermediate loco depot. The type had not previously been on the WR, they were ex-LT&S locos displaced there by electrification.

When the same type came to the S&D locos were changed at Templecombe.

The big GWR tanks hauled freight, they did not have steam heating connections. Severn Tunnel Junction to Salisbury was a common turn and probably the longest. The reason the 2-8-2T were built was to give larger coal bunker capacity over the comparable 2-8-0T, some were actually conversions.

In Ireland the ex-NCC 2-6-4T, built at Derby, became common performers on Belfast to Dublin reliefs and excursions towards the end of steam, working right through and back.

 

[30907]

The Central Wales line had BR 80xxx 2-6-4T allocated for the last couple of steam years 1963-4, until dmus took over. They were allocated to both Shrewsbury and Llanelli, and worked right through, must have been a challenge for coal capacity. There was no intermediate loco depot. The type had not previously been on the WR, they were ex-LT&S locos displaced there by electrification.

When the same type came to the S&D locos were changed at Templecombe.

Thanks for confirming both my hunches - the Central Wales was by quite some way the longest then.

 

[Cowley]

Fascinating stuff. What sort of mileage is that then? 120 miles or so?

 

[theageofthetra]

The LBSCR Baltic tanks did London to Brighton and later London to Eastbourne once Brighton was electrified. That's a fair distance for a UK tank loco.

What about articulated locos- they are tanks as well. The Ffestiniog double Fairlies must have done some decent mileages as well as the LMS Garretts. How far did one of Bullieds ill fated Leaders ever go?

 

[Ash Bridge]

The LBSCR Baltic tanks did London to Brighton and later London to Eastbourne once Brighton was electrified. That's a fair distance for a UK tank loco.

What about articulated locos- they are tanks as well. The Ffestiniog double Fairlies must have done some decent mileages as well as the LMS Garretts. How far did one of Bullieds ill fated Leaders ever go?

Regarding the Bullied Leader; that is a very interesting question you've brought up, I'd be really keen to learn, if anyone can answer?

 

[delt1c]

Regarding the Leader, As I understand only 1 was ever steamed ( rest scrapped without steaming) and only used on limited trials using empty stock. Apart from the mechanical problems, a major problem was the "Sauna" where the fireman was expected to work.

 

[theageofthetra]

These experimental turbine tanks may have done some decent distances in testing.

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/reidrams/reidrams.htm

 

[delt1c]

These experimental turbine tanks may have done some decent distances in testing.

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/reidrams/reidrams.htm

Not BR scheduled services

 

[Ash Bridge]

Regarding the Leader, As I understand only 1 was ever steamed ( rest scrapped without steaming) and only used on limited trials using empty stock. Apart from the mechanical problems, a major problem was the "Sauna" where the fireman was expected to work.

Well I never realised that the trials were so limited, so seemingly never turned a wheel in revenue earning service then?

These experimental turbine tanks may have done some decent distances in testing
http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/reidrams/reidrams.htm

What a beast of a machine is that! Never even remotely heard of that one before, you do come up with some gems theageofthetra.

 

[70014IronDuke]

... Going back to the Large Prairies at Paddington - I've had a look at the 1958 timetable which is steam era, and while there are a couple of Paddington-Didcot-Banbury workings, they are semi-fast not stoppers, and I wouldn't have expected a tank on those - but I might well be wrong.

I agree. Probably a Hall or 43xx at worst, I'd have thought. Unless deputising for a failure.

Thanks for the reminders of the 282Ts on coal from South Wales - that must count as the longest distance for freight.

I wonder if this was only in wartime? I used to trainspot near Reading in 62-64, and I don't ever remember seeing any of the big tanks on such trains. 28xx, Halls and Granges, 47xx on occasion, even Castles. I can't say in never happened, of course.