Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Storage heating might be an option? Some Swiss funiculars are heated that way.
Storage heaters equals lots of bricks. Not something you want on a limited powered train me thinks.Storage heating might be an option? Some Swiss funiculars are heated that way.
Storage heaters equals lots of bricks. Not something you want on a limited powered train me thinks.
The battery tech is moving so fast, capacity & cost will not be an issue in a few years
I am sure that Vivarail will have hoped to have sold all their Class 230 units long before the "few years" scenario stated above.
That would be the answer I'd expect them to use - lightweight equipment and very energy efficient. As long as temperatures don't fall below -10°C, they work very well indeed and would also double as air conditioning. The issues really are, as suggested, the cost of leasing battery packs and the amount of time spent charging, even with fast charging solutions.Electric Heat Pumps plus waste heat from the battery seem more appropriate nowadays. Any extra battery weight needed to support the heat pump is, I'd suggest, going to be less than the equivalent bricks. With the added benefit of being able to be used for a cooling system (if it's warm) and for traction if its neither warm nor cold.
Insignificant when compared to the weight of a train.
How much would the weight of these bricks be?
Well, this domestic storage heater:
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Produc...MIjZjj0obP3wIVBEPTCh3ttwarEAQYBCABEgJ1HfD_BwE
weighs 155kg, which is about the same as two fairly small passengers (or one very fat one).
Is that enough for a whole carriage? If so then it isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things.
Car heaters are, of course, designed to heat a car up from cold as quickly as possible on a winter's day.1.5kW isn't a lot - I believe car heaters are in the 3-6kW range. Even a 230 vehicle should be expected to have sufficient heat for 10 times that volume.
Car heaters are, of course, designed to heat a car up from cold as quickly as possible on a winter's day.
My (electric) car's heater consumes about 0.5kW and warms the (obviously relatively much much smaller) interior to very hot, if I want it to, very quickly. Heat Pump technology is very, very efficient - I believe the statistic is that the heat output is 4x the electrical input; counter-intuitive, I know, but there it is. No need for bricks.
Just one point, that 0.5kW is the electrical draw. When being compared with a storage heater I believe you'll need to state the actual heat output, which is usually 4-5 times the electrical draw. I definitely feel it's the right solution for a battery unit though.My (electric) car's heater consumes about 0.5kW and warms the (obviously relatively much much smaller) interior to very hot, if I want it to, very quickly. Heat Pump technology is very, very efficient - I believe the statistic is that the heat output is 4x the electrical input; counter-intuitive, I know, but there it is. No need for bricks.
Just one point, that 0.5kW is the electrical draw. When being compared with a storage heater I believe you'll need to state the actual heat output, which is usually 4-5 times the electrical draw. I definitely feel it's the right solution for a battery unit though.
All electric heaters are basically 100% efficient. The heat output is (give or take a small "on" light, a slight red glow of the element and maybe a quiet buzz) exactly the same as the power input. The output cannot be more than the input in kWh, though I suppose a storage heater can output it quicker (or slower) than it was inputted, unlike a regular one, though normally you want slower output as otherwise you'll find your house rather cold for half the day (you want a charge for about 7 hours then output for about 17 - hence "Economy 7").
An air source heat pump is a very interesting idea. I wonder how easy it would be to apply that to a train.
I think they are quite bulk systems so i maybe not too easy.
To do that you would need to lower the ceiling though, as I don't imagine there'd be much clearance above the existing roofs within the UK loading gauge.I thought an *air* source unit was basically like a slightly big aircon unit so could be fitted in the roof space like an actual aircon unit.
To do that you would need to lower the ceiling though, as I don't imagine there'd be much clearance above the existing roofs within the UK loading gauge.