GWR Class 800

[Charlie Smythe]

Two points:

• The trains procured under the IEP contract have been designed, manufactured and tested with no 'public' money being spent on them at all[1]. That is the whole point of the DfT's contract(s) with Agility Trains.
• As far as I am aware ALL the cleaning and maintenance of the IEP trains is carried out by Agility Trains under the terms of the IEP contract(s). So GWR is not directly involved - it simply supplies the train crews to run the trains.

I don't know whether GWR is responsible for the cleaning of the additional Class 802 trains bought by a ROSCO on its behalf. (Again - no public money is involved in the trains' purchase). I suspect that it is sub-contracted to Agility Trains for those trains which finish their diagrams at North Pole, Stoke Gifford and Swansea and the others will be dealt with by GWR directly.

[1] Apart from the shedloads of money the DfT spent on consultants in the years leading up to the IEP contract.

It was 7 additional 9 car sets that a ROSCO ordered for GWR wasn't it?

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Won't they just pay Agility Trains to deal with the cleaning and maintenance and GWR pay them directly in order to minimise duplication?

 

[Emblematic]

[1] Apart from the shedloads of money the DfT spent on consultants in the years leading up to the IEP contract.

Oh and all the upfront costs mentioned being rolled up into the not-exactly-bargain IEP pay-per diagram contract, which I'm sure has a tidy profit margin added and which we'll all be paying for for the next quarter century, irrespective of TOC, government, nationalisation or any other changes you can think of.
Oh, forgot about the contract variations. Make that a very tidy profit margin.

 

[spark001uk]

I would’ve thought it’s because there are only a small amount of HSS guards trained for Bedwyn, and most the stations down that route have been DOO since at least the 90’s.

OK thanks, that's all I wanted to know. I was curious because on the face of it there are a few through stoppers on B&H that have been IET for a while now, but they obviously have a TM, hence wondering if they'd thought about doing it for the Bedwyn stoppers.

 

[JN114]

Nice to see GWR taking good care of the Class 800's provided to them out of the public purse, NOT!

Some of the 800's with light gray seats are FILTHY and clearly not being looked after. The carpets don't look like they have hoovered properly either.

The 802's? With a gray patterned seats are not so bad.

All seat covers are in the process of being replaced with the material as found on the 802s

I would’ve thought it’s because there are only a small amount of HSS guards trained for Bedwyn, and most the stations down that route have been DOO since at least the 90’s.

Loads of Train Managers sign Bedwyn - It’s core route knowledge for Paddington, Bristol, Cardiff, Exeter and Plymouth.

The interim period while enough IETs are being modified is only expected to be a few months tops - I suspect it’s much more likely that it’s to avoid the bunfight with the RMT that would ensue if you were to roster guards to a service then make it DOO (again) just a few weeks/months later.

 

[samuelmorris]

I too thought the seats were pretty filthy on the 800 I travelled on last month but the rest of the unit seemed clean enough. I wonder if the seat fabric will be rather neglected as it's imminently due for replacement with the slightly better covers used on the 802s.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

I too thought the seats were pretty filthy on the 800 I travelled on last month but the rest of the unit seemed clean enough. I wonder if the seat fabric will be rather neglected as it's imminently due for replacement with the slightly better covers used on the 802s.

Can you explain what the situation with the seat cover is? From what i can gather the 800's were built with a certain fabric and the 802's a different one and now the 800's are having their covers changed to whats on the 802's.

 

[samuelmorris]

That is my understanding. Alas, the hard-as-nails seat base isn't changing but the cover that goes on it is, I believe, being modified. 800/3s, all 802s and all LNER/TPE/Hull Trains (and probably ECT too) units will have the newer seat covering. Too right really, the existing ones feel rather like that plastic coating they use for the exterior of bean bags...

 

[Kian]

No That tweet says it was an Hitachi test train.

It was 802016 (driven by a GBRF driver) that ended up wrapped in the wires (although the unit may not have been the cause)

The pantograph of the train was fitted incorrectly meaning it was higher than usual, it hit a bit of lower wire and “grabbed” onto it.

 

[FGW_DID]

The pantograph of the train was fitted incorrectly meaning it was higher than usual, it hit a bit of lower wire and “grabbed” onto it.

Where have you heard that from?

 

[Master29]

Oh and all the upfront costs mentioned being rolled up into the not-exactly-bargain IEP pay-per diagram contract, which I'm sure has a tidy profit margin added and which we'll all be paying for for the next quarter century, irrespective of TOC, government, nationalisation or any other changes you can think of.
Oh, forgot about the contract variations. Make that a very tidy profit margin.

Why was it all needed in the first place? We only needed replacement trains not all this bumf that came with it. Consultancies my bottom.

 

[Phil G]

That is my understanding. Alas, the hard-as-nails seat base isn't changing but the cover that goes on it is, I believe, being modified. 800/3s, all 802s and all LNER/TPE/Hull Trains (and probably ECT too) units will have the newer seat covering. Too right really, the existing ones feel rather like that plastic coating they use for the exterior of bean bags...

The replacement of covers is obviously happening, I'm on 800031 at the moment and it has the new covers. Much better but obviously no softer.

 

[AlexNL]

Why was it all needed in the first place? We only needed replacement trains not all this bumf that came with it.

The DfT wanted to play with trains, and by setting up this complex PFI structure they could do so without adding a significant amount of money to the national debt. If they had simply bought the trains directly and provided them through a DfT ROSCO they would've probably had to explain themselves to the NAO and the Treasury as that is way beyond their remit (that's what the private sector ROSCOs are for).

Consultancies my bottom.

Consultants can be expensive, absolutely. But now that the IEP procurement phase is done, those people are gone as well. That would've been different if all of them had been on DfT's payroll.

 

[cossie4i]

Why are the 800s running on diesel between Didcot and Swindon.
Seen 7 trains now, not one using the wires.

 

[cactustwirly]

Why are the 800s running on diesel between Didcot and Swindon.
Seen 7 trains now, not one using the wires.

They can't just yet because of the bridge at Steventon.
So they switch over to Diesel at Moreton cutting, until they pass through the bridge.

 

[cossie4i]

They can't just yet because of the bridge at Steventon.
So they switch over to Diesel at Moreton cutting, until they pass through the bridge.

Thanks for the information.
At Swindon now, the 5 Up trains I have seen depart have all departed on diesel. 3 Down trains have arrived, 2 on A.C. 1 on diesel.

 

[Railperf]

Pair of 802's on 1C26 really struggling on electric power - max 106 at Cholsey despite a clear road and 5 min late start from Reading. Could it be a whole unit not providing traction power?

 

[Mintona]

They can't just yet because of the bridge at Steventon.
So they switch over to Diesel at Moreton cutting, until they pass through the bridge.

That’s not true, they do now use electric between Swindon and Steventon in the up direction.

However, there is currently a damaged registration arm at Bourton and so all Class 800 trains have been restricted to diesel only between Swindon and Steventon on the up main until further notice. Down main trains are unaffected.

Class 387s are using the reversible down main to get to and from Cocklebury Sidings until the problem is fixed

 

[irish_rail]

Pair of 802's on 1C26 really struggling on electric power - max 106 at Cholsey despite a clear road and 5 min late start from Reading. Could it be a whole unit not providing traction power?

Seems they were set swapped for a turbo at Bristol so suggests something amiss. Also noted 800008 and another set departing get Paddington 10 late on 1645 Swansea due to no brake release.....

 

[FGW_DID]

Pair of 802's on 1C26 really struggling on electric power - max 106 at Cholsey despite a clear road and 5 min late start from Reading. Could it be a whole unit not providing traction power?

Seems they were set swapped for a turbo at Bristol so suggests something amiss. Also noted 800008 and another set departing get Paddington 10 late on 1645 Swansea due to no brake release.....

802008 & 802021 (on an HST diagram!), swapped for 166216.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

However, there is currently a damaged registration arm at Bourton and so all Class 800 trains have been restricted to diesel only between Swindon and Steventon on the up main until further notice. Down main trains are unaffected.

Is that why the one I was on yesterday came to a stop for 2 - 3 minutes shortly after leaving Swindon?

 

[TractiveEffort]

Seems they were set swapped for a turbo at Bristol so suggests something amiss. Also noted 800008 and another set departing get Paddington 10 late on 1645 Swansea due to no brake release.....

They were diesel only, so shouldn’t have been on electric.

The 1645 delay was due to a CPBC being left in emergency - blocks end cab.

 

[Mintona]

Is that why the one I was on yesterday came to a stop for 2 - 3 minutes shortly after leaving Swindon?

I honestly don’t have a clue. I’d speculate it’s possible but I’m not privy to specific train information.

 

[Railperf]

Unidentified 800 or 802 pairing on the 1630 Pad Tau left Paddington more than 6 late in diesel mode (Tues 8th Jan). My 16:36 387 Pair to Didcot was held to give it the road ahead of us. Crazy to say it but the 387's progress was hampered by the 800 ahead!!

 

[JN114]

Unidentified 800 or 802 pairing on the 1630 Pad Tau left Paddington more than 6 late in diesel mode (Tues 8th Jan). My 16:36 387 Pair to Didcot was held to give it the road ahead of us. Crazy to say it but the 387's progress was hampered by the 800 ahead!!

Perhaps you’ll have more data on this but speaking to colleagues that drive both we’re fairly sure the 387s can beat the 80x up to about 100mph; even with the latter on full electric mode - the only traction that can get from 50 up to 100 between Ladbroke and the 125 board at Acton and the driver needing to shut off.

 

[Railperf]

My data seems to inidcate almost neck and neck between a 387 and a 5/10 car 800 in electric mode. It often depends on how quickly drivers apply full power from start. The 802's are in another league ...

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Is 800316 on a diesel-only restriction?
Saw it go through Reading West on the Up Westbury pan down, or will they only pan up on the stop at Reading?

 

[FGW_DID]

Is 800316 on a diesel-only restriction?
Saw it go through Reading West on the Up Westbury pan down, or will they only pan up on the stop at Reading?

Wasn’t on this mornings list (only 800/3 was 318).
Should be pans up from Newbury (if stopping there) or near to the racecourse.

 

[Three-Nine]

A 10 car GWR Class 800 went from Exeter to Axminster and back again today on a route-proving run, as far as I'm aware only the second time this train type has been on the West of England route between Exeter and Waterloo.

 

[jimm]

Key thing today was that it ran up and down the bank between Exeter St Davids and Exeter Central, whereas the last run came in from the east and turned back at Central.

The route is presumably now cleared for IET diversions between Exeter St Davids and Castle Cary via Yeovil, in time for the closure of Whiteball Tunnel for maintenance work in February and early March.