What are the best and worst bus operators in the UK?

[swt class 450]

Following on from my posts on the First thread about the sale of First Manchester where i stated my dislike for Go Ahead i thought i would start this thread.

What has always really surprised me is that the bus operators who keep getting all this praise and all these awards are the bus operators who i have found to be the worst bus operators i have travelled on.

In my personal opinion these are the worst bus operators i have used in the UK (and i have used all of them multiple times):

• Go Ahead ( Bluestar / Brighton & Hove / Carousel Buses / Damory Coaches / East Yorkshire Motor Services / Excelsior Coaches / Go North East / Metrobus / More Bus / Oxford Bus Company / Salisbury Reds / Southern Vectis / Thames Travel / Thamesdown / Tourist Coaches / Unibus / Unilink )

• Transdev ( Blackburn Bus Company / Burnley Bus Company / Harrogate Bus Company / Keighley Bus Company / Rosso Bus / York Bus / Yorkshire Coastliner )

• Trent Barton ( Trent Barton / Kinchbus )

• Reading Buses

• Nottingham City Transport

• Lothian Buses

What is funny is that these companies keep getting praise and awards. I have never been impressed with any of these bus operators. All of these companies seem to be doing everything they can to make using buses as difficult as possible. I don't get what people like about them! I can't think of a single good thing!

I have listed just a few of the problems with these companies (and this is just a very few of them as i could go on all day about why i hate them):

Lothian Buses and Nottingham City Transport and Reading Buses all use the ridiculous exact fare policy instead of giving change. I don't see how operators that make paying for a ticket so difficult can get such praise.

Brighton & Hove and Reading Buses and Trent Barton are all still stuck in past century using the 12 hour clock in their timetables. This makes their timetables very confusing and difficult to read. It is very easy to look at the wrong times.

Reading Buses for another example recently got rid of Return tickets a couple of years ago meaning that all passengers have to now buy two Single tickets or a Day ticket. This was a very unpopular move by passengers. Return tickets are the most popular type as most passengers just want one journey in to town and one journey back again. So getting rid of Return tickets was very foolish. Another example of making things worse for passengers. Trent Barton also did the same more recently and got rid of Return tickets.

Then you have Trent Barton who ridiculously use names instead of numbers for their routes. It is so much more simple to just have a route number to remember rather than some long ridiculous name to remember. They also have a million different brands and liveries which again make it more confusing and many people don't even realise it is the same company. It is a mess.

Then you have Transdev who also have a million different brands (which keep increasing) and seem to be trying to pretend to be multiple different companies. With all these brands and different liveries many people don't know who runs the routes and think the route brands are the company name. It is one big confusing mess. Rossendale Transport has certainty gone downhill since they took over.

I haven't heard anything good about how any of these companies they treat their staff either. For an example Brighton & Hove and Metrobus have had a huge amount of staff leaving recently and moving to the small independents. I have heard some awful things about them. They seem to be disciplining staff for the smallest most ridiculous things. All the companies i listed are typical large companies that don't care about their staff.

Like i say i could go on and on about these companies listing all the negative things. These are not the only things i dislike about them.

All of these companies like to produce annoying publicity bragging about how good they are but the truth is that they are all really rubbish. They are so conceited and forget the basics of what passengers want. I have never had any good experiences with any of these companies. Some of my journeys have been ok and other times i have had problems but never have i had any journey with them that would make me think that they are good companies. Some of the customer service i have received when making complaints has been appalling. You can tell none of these operators care about passengers. They care about good publicity but when you use them you will find that they are nowhere near as good as they say.

The question is have others actually found them to be good? Does anyone really think they are good operators? Do they deserve all the praise and awards they get? Or is this all nonsense from bus managers and industry professionals who are not looking at it from the point of the passengers and staff?

Another thing that i have always found strange is all the criticism that Arriva get. I have always found Arriva to be excellent and the best of the big groups by far. I have used them lots and always get nice drivers and good service. They have one simple brand and livery for all of their services. Their fares are normally cheaper than their competitors as well. I think that Arriva get it just right. Just a nice simple good bus service without any of these silly gimmicks.

Another company i have always been happy with is Rotala despite all the criticism they get. Again this company produces a nice simple bus service with no silly gimmicks. The only part i am not too much of a fan of is their Preston Bus operation which is a bit lower quality. But the rest (like their Diamond North West and Diamond West Midlands and Hallmark Connections services) all seem to be good decent operations.

I have also been happy with many small independents all over the UK as well.

My question is what are thoughts on these companies? Do they really deserve all this praise and awards? Or is this just a load of nonsense created by bus managers?

And also in your opinion what do you think are the best bus operators in the UK and what do you think are the worst bus operators in the UK?

I would be interested to hear all of your views and thoughts. Many thanks.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

 

[philthetube]

Transdev second on the list and the only complaints are that their busses are different colours and that a newly acquired operator hasn't yet come up to standard.

 

[gordonthemoron]

NCT and TrentBarton (although not KinchBus) are great

 

[borage]

Controversial, but thank you for your candour.

On branding, I found this article about trentbarton, from when it was directed by Alex Hornby, interesting:

‘I call it the Cadburys effect’, says Alex. ‘Cadburys refer to their products as Wispa, Crunchie and Dairy Milk. They’re all in different coloured wrappers…and are instantly recognisable. It’s the same with our brands’.

[...] ‘The moment Cadburys’ start calling their chocolate bars “chocolate bar number 43”’, remarks Alex, ‘is the moment when we’ll have another think about what we’re doing…’.

There are some important differences between chocolate bars and bus services, but I personally I find names easier to remember and harder to get mixed up than numbers.

Reading is one of the few places where bus use isn't decreasing, which I presume is despite/because of their confusing/annoying/simple flat flare and exact fare policy and different coloured buses.

 

[Robertj21a]

Following on from my posts on the First thread about the sale of First Manchester where i stated my dislike for Go Ahead i thought i would start this thread.

What has always really surprised me is that the bus operators who keep getting all this praise and all these awards are the bus operators who i have found to be the worst bus operators i have travelled on.

In my personal opinion these are the worst bus operators i have used in the UK (and i have used all of them multiple times):

• Go Ahead ( Bluestar / Brighton & Hove / Carousel Buses / Damory Coaches / East Yorkshire Motor Services / Excelsior Coaches / Go North East / Metrobus / More Bus / Oxford Bus Company / Salisbury Reds / Southern Vectis / Thames Travel / Thamesdown / Tourist Coaches / Unibus / Unilink )

• Transdev ( Blackburn Bus Company / Burnley Bus Company / Harrogate Bus Company / Keighley Bus Company / Rosso Bus / York Bus / Yorkshire Coastliner )

• Trent Barton ( Trent Barton / Kinchbus )

• Reading Buses

• Nottingham City Transport

• Lothian Buses

What is funny is that these companies keep getting praise and awards. I have never been impressed with any of these bus operators. All of these companies seem to be doing everything they can to make using buses as difficult as possible. I don't get what people like about them! I can't think of a single good thing!

I have listed just a few of the problems with these companies (and this is just a very few of them as i could go on all day about why i hate them):

Lothian Buses and Nottingham City Transport and Reading Buses all use the ridiculous exact fare policy instead of giving change. I don't see how operators that make paying for a ticket so difficult can get such praise.

Brighton & Hove and Reading Buses and Trent Barton are all still stuck in past century using the 12 hour clock in their timetables. This makes their timetables very confusing and difficult to read. It is very easy to look at the wrong times.

Reading Buses for another example recently got rid of Return tickets a couple of years ago meaning that all passengers have to now buy two Single tickets or a Day ticket. This was a very unpopular move by passengers. Return tickets are the most popular type as most passengers just want one journey in to town and one journey back again. So getting rid of Return tickets was very foolish. Another example of making things worse for passengers. Trent Barton also did the same more recently and got rid of Return tickets.

Then you have Trent Barton who ridiculously use names instead of numbers for their routes. It is so much more simple to just have a route number to remember rather than some long ridiculous name to remember. They also have a million different brands and liveries which again make it more confusing and many people don't even realise it is the same company. It is a mess.

Then you have Transdev who also have a million different brands (which keep increasing) and seem to be trying to pretend to be multiple different companies. With all these brands and different liveries many people don't know who runs the routes and think the route brands are the company name. It is one big confusing mess. Rossendale Transport has certainty gone downhill since they took over.

I haven't heard anything good about how any of these companies they treat their staff either. For an example Brighton & Hove and Metrobus have had a huge amount of staff leaving recently and moving to the small independents. I have heard some awful things about them. They seem to be disciplining staff for the smallest most ridiculous things. All the companies i listed are typical large companies that don't care about their staff.

Like i say i could go on and on about these companies listing all the negative things. These are not the only things i dislike about them.

All of these companies like to produce annoying publicity bragging about how good they are but the truth is that they are all really rubbish. They are so conceited and forget the basics of what passengers want. I have never had any good experiences with any of these companies. Some of my journeys have been ok and other times i have had problems but never have i had any journey with them that would make me think that they are good companies. Some of the customer service i have received when making complaints has been appalling. You can tell none of these operators care about passengers. They care about good publicity but when you use them you will find that they are nowhere near as good as they say.

The question is have others actually found them to be good? Does anyone really think they are good operators? Do they deserve all the praise and awards they get? Or is this all nonsense from bus managers and industry professionals who are not looking at it from the point of the passengers and staff?

Another thing that i have always found strange is all the criticism that Arriva get. I have always found Arriva to be excellent and the best of the big groups by far. I have used them lots and always get nice drivers and good service. They have one simple brand and livery for all of their services. Their fares are normally cheaper than their competitors as well. I think that Arriva get it just right. Just a nice simple good bus service without any of these silly gimmicks.

Another company i have always been happy with is Rotala despite all the criticism they get. Again this company produces a nice simple bus service with no silly gimmicks. The only part i am not too much of a fan of is their Preston Bus operation which is a bit lower quality. But the rest (like their Diamond North West and Diamond West Midlands and Hallmark Connections services) all seem to be good decent operations.

I have also been happy with many small independents all over the UK as well.

My question is what are thoughts on these companies? Do they really deserve all this praise and awards? Or is this just a load of nonsense created by bus managers?

And also in your opinion what do you think are the best bus operators in the UK and what do you think are the worst bus operators in the UK?

I would be interested to hear all of your views and thoughts. Many thanks.

You certainly appear to have many views that are the total opposite of many other people !!

I can just about begin to understand your logic in a few cases, but that's about it.


.

 

[goldisgood]

My thoughts exactly.

Lothian Buses and Nottingham City Transport and Reading Buses all use the ridiculous exact fare policy instead of giving change. I don't see how operators that make paying for a ticket so difficult can get such praise.

Exact fare isn't great but is used in lots of areas. Contactless and m-ticketing makes this fine, and regular customers will become used to it. I would not say that paying for a ticket is 'so difficult', it is the same as paying for any ticket just you don't get change. This can speed up boarding times which in turn can lead to faster journey times and also increases safety for the driver.
After looking at the RB fares, they are pretty easy to pay with flat fare with coins, with contactless and m-tickets available for those who don't carry change - I fail to see how this is so much of an issue.

Brighton & Hove and Reading Buses and Trent Barton are all still stuck in past century using the 12 hour clock in their timetables. This makes their timetables very confusing and difficult to read. It is very easy to look at the wrong times.

It's not that hard really... it's just reading a time which almost everyone who has been through primary school will be able to do. Yes, 24-hour clocks would be better, but does using 12-hour clocks mean they are, as you say 'stuck in the past century'? I think not.

Reading Buses for another example recently got rid of Return tickets a couple of years ago meaning that all passengers have to now buy two Single tickets or a Day ticket. This was a very unpopular move by passengers. Return tickets are the most popular type as most passengers just want one journey in to town and one journey back again. So getting rid of Return tickets was very foolish. Another example of making things worse for passengers. Trent Barton also did the same more recently and got rid of Return tickets.

Again, this increases the safety for drivers and makes boarding times easier. Reading's bus fares are some of the cheapest in the country if I recall correctly, and the flat fares aren't bad at all.

Then you have Trent Barton who ridiculously use names instead of numbers for their routes. It is so much more simple to just have a route number to remember rather than some long ridiculous name to remember. They also have a million different brands and liveries which again make it more confusing and many people don't even realise it is the same company. It is a mess.

I completely disagree with you here. Using a unique name for a route creates a 'brand' - it's selling a product. A unique name which is slightly quirky is easier to remember than some random number, and it creates a sense of identity for the route. The branding is very similar with the TB logo featured on the bus, TB moquette and the same livery applied just in different colours. It is not a mess, it is thoughtful and effective route branding.

Then you have Transdev who also have a million different brands (which keep increasing) and seem to be trying to pretend to be multiple different companies. With all these brands and different liveries many people don't know who runs the routes and think the route brands are the company name. It is one big confusing mess. Rossendale Transport has certainty gone downhill since they took over.

Transdev have created strong branding that has been proven to increase bus usage. The 36 and Lakeline services have seen huge successes and aren't 'trying to pretend to be multiple different companies'. They are using localised branding to create pride for people's bus services and have modern route identities based on a similar livery like TB. Take Rosso's busees for example - all buses have the Rosso logo where people can see it, the publicity is branded as Rosso and route branded buses have a yellow back with a different colour front with the exception of the 464 which isn't just a Rosso route. It's not a confusing mess, as I explained with TB.
As for Rosso, there were massive reliability issues when they first took them over due to maintenance that wasn't up to their standards. I believe that they have improved a lot since then, and now everything seems to be starting to come together - perhaps someone with more experience can elaborate?

I haven't heard anything good about how any of these companies they treat their staff either. For an example Brighton & Hove and Metrobus have had a huge amount of staff leaving recently and moving to the small independents. I have heard some awful things about them. They seem to be disciplining staff for the smallest most ridiculous things. All the companies i listed are typical large companies that don't care about their staff.

Fair enough for this. There are issues in some areas such as Lothian and Transdev, but equally there are areas where the staff are very enthusiastic and love doing what they do.

Another thing that i have always found strange is all the criticism that Arriva get. I have always found Arriva to be excellent and the best of the big groups by far. I have used them lots and always get nice drivers and good service. They have one simple brand and livery for all of their services. Their fares are normally cheaper than their competitors as well. I think that Arriva get it just right. Just a nice simple good bus service without any of these silly gimmicks.

I've used them occasionally and haven't been massively impressed... Their fares are over double their competitors, they have been known to shut doors on people, they fail to turn out suitable vehicles for routes and they often cause gridlock by blocking roads where I am. Most would put Arriva at the bottom of the big groups (the 'Is Arriva the new First?' thread had lots of people talking fairly recently). They don't really have one simple brand, as has been highlighted in another recent thread. They have many different liveries (old cowhorn, interurban, old sapphire, max, frequenta, old Go Green, new Go Green, new sapphire and the new livery) running around in areas with conflicting products (such as MAX - in some areas this is almost as good as Sapphire, in others it is standard buses repainted, and Sapphire which can be pretty much standard in some areas such as Yorkshire or coach-spec buses in Wales). I'd call this more of a mess than Trent Barton.
The 'silly gimmicks' as you put it have, as I said, increased bus usage and made people aware of services. In areas where most of the operators you feel are 'the worst' the usage of public transport per person is very high.

All of these companies like to produce annoying publicity bragging about how good they are but the truth is that they are all really rubbish. They are so conceited and forget the basics of what passengers want. I have never had any good experiences with any of these companies. Some of my journeys have been ok and other times i have had problems but never have i had any journey with them that would make me think that they are good companies. Some of the customer service i have received when making complaints has been appalling. You can tell none of these operators care about passengers. They care about good publicity but when you use them you will find that they are nowhere near as good as they say.

I sort of agree with the first half sentence of this but nothing more. 'Forget the basics of what passengers want' - modern frequent buses with comfy seats and USB charging, which most of the operators have? I find it particularly hard to believe that you 'always get good drivers and good service' with Arriva, yet you have never had 'any journey with [these operators] which would make [you] think that they are good companies'. May I ask which parts of Arriva you have used, and invite people to comment on this area?

Another company i have always been happy with is Rotala despite all the criticism they get. Again this company produces a nice simple bus service with no silly gimmicks. The only part i am not too much of a fan of is their Preston Bus operation which is a bit lower quality. But the rest (like their Diamond North West and Diamond West Midlands and Hallmark Connections services) all seem to be good decent operations.

Preston Bus is widely acknowledged to be pretty much the only Rotala operation that is decent. West Midlands is the definition of low quality (I mean, wheels falling off buses? Come on, you can't get much lower than that.) I think it is agreed by most people that Rotala are very poor and have a lot of work to do, but Preston is ok.

I think that most of the companies you have mentioned deserve praise, however I do have lots of negative experience with Thames Travel as do most regular users. The drivers aren't knowledgeable and they have chronically bad reliability, but they are better than they were and I appreciate this but they still have a way to go.

It's a complex issue and too hard to say 'the best' and 'the worst', and it depends what you want. I wouldn't mind if my bus was 5 minutes late if it was a nicer bus for my journey home, but others would mind. Some operators I'd say look good from the outside are: Reading Buses, Stagecoach South, Go South Coast and Trent Barton in particular. They seem to pay attention to nice branding of vehicles and have generally modern fleets (Stagecoach are probably the worst at this, but I really like what they've managed to do at Stagecoach South on top of the fairly bland corporate livery).

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that you have picked 6 award-winning operators and 2 operators which are commonly said to be among the worst in the UK, and are making out the complete opposite with a straight face. I doubt I'm the only one thinking this.

 

[Typhoon]

A very, very wide subject but for a customer friendly independent company I would nominate Southdown PSV. Decent publicity material, responsive to enquiries, (mostly) friendly and helpful drivers in unpromising bus territory.

I haven't been on their buses for a year but when I travelled on them the blue version of Metrobus seemed fine to me (from a passengers point of view). Fares a bit pricey for short journeys but at least you can find out what they are. Most drivers seemed OK and, if the waiting room at Crawley is still operational, it deserves a gold star. Either they have gone through the floor of late or there are a lot of excellent bus companies I have never been on.

 

[Andyh82]

Never have I seen such a long list of opinions that are all so far from the norm.

In the main part of the forum the poster is probably starting a thread saying his favourite units are pacers and voyagers and he hates HSTs.

 

[Surreyman]

I have to assume this is a wind-up by user1234, perhaps he is being deliberately provocative in order to stir up a debate.
He names his selected 'Worst bus companies' but doesn't mention his chosen 'Best Companies' - I have to assume he would select First and Rotala?

 

[stuart81]

Wow, so basically you are against everything that companies are doing to improve themselves!

 

[darloscott]

Unreal to list companies who everyone else would think are at the top of the game and make them out to be the worst around...
I'm in the middle of trying to improve my own operation up here in the NE by rebranding and pushing us forwards, but it's not easy with limited resources.
As for top bus companies... all those already mentioned but can I drop another in - Ensignbus operations around Thurrock and wider Essex area have been excellent every time I've used them, smart fleet, friendly drivers and seemingly reliable too.

 

[Megafuss]

Following on from my posts on the First thread about the sale of First Manchester where i stated my dislike for Go Ahead i thought i would start this thread.

What has always really surprised me is that the bus operators who keep getting all this praise and all these awards are the bus operators who i have found to be the worst bus operators i have travelled on.

In my personal opinion these are the worst bus operators i have used in the UK (and i have used all of them multiple times):

• Go Ahead ( Bluestar / Brighton & Hove / Carousel Buses / Damory Coaches / East Yorkshire Motor Services / Excelsior Coaches / Go North East / Metrobus / More Bus / Oxford Bus Company / Salisbury Reds / Southern Vectis / Thames Travel / Thamesdown / Tourist Coaches / Unibus / Unilink )

• Transdev ( Blackburn Bus Company / Burnley Bus Company / Harrogate Bus Company / Keighley Bus Company / Rosso Bus / York Bus / Yorkshire Coastliner )

• Trent Barton ( Trent Barton / Kinchbus )

• Reading Buses

• Nottingham City Transport

• Lothian Buses

What is funny is that these companies keep getting praise and awards. I have never been impressed with any of these bus operators. All of these companies seem to be doing everything they can to make using buses as difficult as possible. I don't get what people like about them! I can't think of a single good thing!

I have listed just a few of the problems with these companies (and this is just a very few of them as i could go on all day about why i hate them):

Lothian Buses and Nottingham City Transport and Reading Buses all use the ridiculous exact fare policy instead of giving change. I don't see how operators that make paying for a ticket so difficult can get such praise.

Brighton & Hove and Reading Buses and Trent Barton are all still stuck in past century using the 12 hour clock in their timetables. This makes their timetables very confusing and difficult to read. It is very easy to look at the wrong times.

Reading Buses for another example recently got rid of Return tickets a couple of years ago meaning that all passengers have to now buy two Single tickets or a Day ticket. This was a very unpopular move by passengers. Return tickets are the most popular type as most passengers just want one journey in to town and one journey back again. So getting rid of Return tickets was very foolish. Another example of making things worse for passengers. Trent Barton also did the same more recently and got rid of Return tickets.

Then you have Trent Barton who ridiculously use names instead of numbers for their routes. It is so much more simple to just have a route number to remember rather than some long ridiculous name to remember. They also have a million different brands and liveries which again make it more confusing and many people don't even realise it is the same company. It is a mess.

Then you have Transdev who also have a million different brands (which keep increasing) and seem to be trying to pretend to be multiple different companies. With all these brands and different liveries many people don't know who runs the routes and think the route brands are the company name. It is one big confusing mess. Rossendale Transport has certainty gone downhill since they took over.

I haven't heard anything good about how any of these companies they treat their staff either. For an example Brighton & Hove and Metrobus have had a huge amount of staff leaving recently and moving to the small independents. I have heard some awful things about them. They seem to be disciplining staff for the smallest most ridiculous things. All the companies i listed are typical large companies that don't care about their staff.

Like i say i could go on and on about these companies listing all the negative things. These are not the only things i dislike about them.

All of these companies like to produce annoying publicity bragging about how good they are but the truth is that they are all really rubbish. They are so conceited and forget the basics of what passengers want. I have never had any good experiences with any of these companies. Some of my journeys have been ok and other times i have had problems but never have i had any journey with them that would make me think that they are good companies. Some of the customer service i have received when making complaints has been appalling. You can tell none of these operators care about passengers. They care about good publicity but when you use them you will find that they are nowhere near as good as they say.

The question is have others actually found them to be good? Does anyone really think they are good operators? Do they deserve all the praise and awards they get? Or is this all nonsense from bus managers and industry professionals who are not looking at it from the point of the passengers and staff?

Another thing that i have always found strange is all the criticism that Arriva get. I have always found Arriva to be excellent and the best of the big groups by far. I have used them lots and always get nice drivers and good service. They have one simple brand and livery for all of their services. Their fares are normally cheaper than their competitors as well. I think that Arriva get it just right. Just a nice simple good bus service without any of these silly gimmicks.

Another company i have always been happy with is Rotala despite all the criticism they get. Again this company produces a nice simple bus service with no silly gimmicks. The only part i am not too much of a fan of is their Preston Bus operation which is a bit lower quality. But the rest (like their Diamond North West and Diamond West Midlands and Hallmark Connections services) all seem to be good decent operations.

I have also been happy with many small independents all over the UK as well.

My question is what are thoughts on these companies? Do they really deserve all this praise and awards? Or is this just a load of nonsense created by bus managers?

And also in your opinion what do you think are the best bus operators in the UK and what do you think are the worst bus operators in the UK?

I would be interested to hear all of your views and thoughts. Many thanks.

Blimey, First must be doing better than I thought

 

[43055]

Brighton & Hove and Reading Buses and Trent Barton are all still stuck in past century using the 12 hour clock in their timetables. This makes their timetables very confusing and difficult to read. It is very easy to look at the wrong times.

I don't have such problem. The trentbarton times that I have state if its am or pm at the top.

Then you have Trent Barton who ridiculously use names instead of numbers for their routes. It is so much more simple to just have a route number to remember rather than some long ridiculous name to remember. They also have a million different brands and liveries which again make it more confusing and many people don't even realise it is the same company. It is a mess.

Now I live on a trentbarton route and I think the branding help with the identity of the routes and visually and adds some locality to it as well. I got the bus home today and upon walking to the bus station I could see that my bus was not there yet even though it uses the bay at the end so I knew I didn't need to rush. Also the brand name do not bother me as I have always called it 'the villager' even in the days when there was V1, V2 etc. Overall I think they are 'really good' with smart buses, friendly drivers and staff and publicity such as paper timetables on the buses.

Then you have Transdev who also have a million different brands (which keep increasing) and seem to be trying to pretend to be multiple different companies. With all these brands and different liveries many people don't know who runs the routes and think the route brands are the company name. It is one big confusing mess. Rossendale Transport has certainty gone downhill since they took over.

It may be because the MD was also the MD of trentbarton before he moved to Transdev. The new branding does look smart and I think it is working as I think somewhere someone said that the number of people using Rosso has gone up since the takeover.

Another thing that i have always found strange is all the criticism that Arriva get. I have always found Arriva to be excellent and the best of the big groups by far. I have used them lots and always get nice drivers and good service. They have one simple brand and livery for all of their services. Their fares are normally cheaper than their competitors as well. I think that Arriva get it just right. Just a nice simple good bus service without any of these silly gimmicks.

I do like the new Arriva livery but for me where it is let down is the drivers as half the time they don't know where I am asking for and the vehicle allocations as they are hardly on the route they are branded for which is just a normal day in Derby.

 

[peterblue]

Then you have Trent Barton who ridiculously use names instead of numbers for their routes. It is so much more simple to just have a route number to remember rather than some long ridiculous name to remember. They also have a million different brands and liveries which again make it more confusing and many people don't even realise it is the same company. It is a mess.

While trying to remain neutral, I should add the average customer isn't remembering different brands and liveries. They will likely have one regular bus that to them since has been transformed into a "brand".

I think brands works best when few in number. It's the same for premium services. Things like e.g. Stagecoach gold is nice. But if every bus is a "Gold" bus like in Oxford, the charm is lost somewhat.

 

[peterblue]

I've not had any bad experiences on any of the operators you mentioned, however! I have found them all to be rather nice.

I have had problems with Diamond WM -- many buses in/around kidderminster have simply not turned up. Now that's the absolute basics. More important than branding is reliability and Rotala can;'t manage that outside of Preston.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Lothian Buses and Nottingham City Transport and Reading Buses all use the ridiculous exact fare policy instead of giving change. I don't see how operators that make paying for a ticket so difficult can get such praise.

Brighton & Hove and Reading Buses and Trent Barton are all still stuck in past century using the 12 hour clock in their timetables. This makes their timetables very confusing and difficult to read. It is very easy to look at the wrong times.

Reading Buses for another example recently got rid of Return tickets a couple of years ago meaning that all passengers have to now buy two Single tickets or a Day ticket. This was a very unpopular move by passengers. Return tickets are the most popular type as most passengers just want one journey in to town and one journey back again. So getting rid of Return tickets was very foolish. Another example of making things worse for passengers. Trent Barton also did the same more recently and got rid of Return tickets.

I don't really see any reasons here to "hate" the operator or regard them as bad. Exact fare is much better at a speed and safety perspective.

Then you have Transdev who also have a million different brands (which keep increasing) and seem to be trying to pretend to be multiple different companies. With all these brands and different liveries many people don't know who runs the routes and think the route brands are the company name. It is one big confusing mess. Rossendale Transport has certainty gone downhill since they took over.

The issue with Transdev is more Alex Hornby's ego rather than anything else. I get that i'm away to be slated by the "Transdev appreciation group", however it's true. Staff moral on the whole appears quite poor and the way the company is managed at times shows a lack of competence. Transdev's services are also notoriously unreliable mainly because they try to cut corners.

All of these companies like to produce annoying publicity bragging about how good they are but the truth is that they are all really rubbish. They are so conceited and forget the basics of what passengers want. I have never had any good experiences with any of these companies. Some of my journeys have been ok and other times i have had problems but never have i had any journey with them that would make me think that they are good companies. Some of the customer service i have received when making complaints has been appalling. You can tell none of these operators care about passengers. They care about good publicity but when you use them you will find that they are nowhere near as good as they say.

I to some extend agree with this statement, Transdev in particular are far too driven by publicity rather than offering a good service.

Another company i have always been happy with is Rotala despite all the criticism they get. Again this company produces a nice simple bus service with no silly gimmicks. The only part i am not too much of a fan of is their Preston Bus operation which is a bit lower quality. But the rest (like their Diamond North West and Diamond West Midlands and Hallmark Connections services) all seem to be good decent operations.

Rotala are probably the worst out of all the companies listed in this thread. Their maintenance record is appalling, fleet condition is consistently poor. I take it you've managed to avoid any of those escapee wheels?

 

[Robertj21a]

I reckon that many would consider Rotala (apart from Preston) to be easily amongst the poorest UK operators.

 

[swt class 450]

Interesting to hear your views. I am surprised that so many people like them. But i do wonder what ordinary staff and passengers (who are not bus enthusiasts or experts on buses) think about these companies. I doubt that all of their views would be as positive.

The way i see it is that the most important things for passengers are buses that are reliable and run on time and have cheap fares. Also things like giving change and selling Return tickets are important as well. Other things are not important for passengers and in fact just make things more confusing. I really don't think that painting a bus in a certain livery or using certain brands or using any of the silly gimmicks that these companies use does anything to encourage more passengers. I don't think passengers care about these things. People use buses because they have to get somewhere. They don't care what the bus looks like. This is why i like companies like Arriva who keep things a lot more simple.

I mainly use Arriva in Surrey (Guildford depot) very regularly and have always been happy. This is their main operation i use. I also regularly use their buses in Kent and their operations across Bedfordshire / Buckinghamshire / Essex / Hertfordshire as well. So these are the main parts of Arriva i have been on. But i have been on Arriva in all other parts of the country as well so i have experienced all of their operations. So far i have never had a bad experience on them.

I agree with Typhoon about Southdown PSV. They are very good. Steve Wallis does a good job running this company. They always have friendly drivers and their fares are cheaper than Metrobus (and they issue Return tickets in the Crawley and Redhill areas which Metrobus does not). So yes they are definitely a good well run operation.

I also find that Compass Bus is another good one. Again they always have friendly drivers and produce very good publicity with an excellent timetable book. Although their fares are extremely expensive especially compared to all their competitors. Compass Bus and Southdown PSV probably produce some of the best publicity in the South East area.

If i had to choose the best bus companies than i would say that Arriva (followed by Rotala) are the best of the big companies. I have also been fairly happy with First every time i have used them (except for their customer service team who are completely useless and can't even answer basic questions). There are over twenty small independents which i would also say are among the best bus operators as well. I have been impressed with a lot of the smaller ones. I have found that some of the best ones are very small bus operators that don't even have a website so you don't hear much about them and they don't get much praise unfortunately.

In response to Surreyman this thread is not set up to be deliberately provocative. These are my actual views. Maybe lots of other members disagree but my views are still valid. Not everyone agrees on everything. And in response to Andyh82 i do actually quite like Pacers and i do indeed dislike HSTs and especially Voyagers and Pendolinos. So you are kind of right about that. But i already mentioned that previously in my first post on the recent thread about favourite trains.

Maybe many people do disagree with my views on these bus companies but i am sure that there are others who agree as well.

 

[Alexbus12]

The issue with Transdev is more Alex Hornby's ego rather than anything else. I get that i'm away to be slated by the "Transdev appreciation group", however it's true. Staff moral on the whole appears quite poor and the way the company is managed at times shows a lack of competence. Transdev's services are also notoriously unreliable mainly because they try to cut corners.

Thank goodness someone has raised this! It becomes petty the way he acts towards people who disagree with him. And whenever (certainly myself anyway) have criticised him, I've had ridiculous backlash from his 'minions'

 

[Jordan Adam]

Something i forgot to mention, however on the topic of Exact fares. I think rural services should give change, but in the case of city services there's really no reason to.

 

[goldisgood]

If i had to choose the best bus companies than i would say that Arriva (followed by Rotala) are the best of the big companies. I have also been fairly happy with First every time i have used them (except for their customer service team who are completely useless and can't even answer basic questions). There are over twenty small independents which i would also say are among the best bus operators as well. I have been impressed with a lot of the smaller ones. I have found that some of the best ones are very small bus operators that don't even have a website so you don't hear much about them and they don't get much praise unfortunately.

Interesting how you say that operators are 'stuck in the past century' for using a 12-hour clock yet you find operators without a website ok...

 

[Jordan Adam]

Interesting how you say that operators are 'stuck in the past century' for using a 12-hour clock yet you find operators without a website ok...

24-hour clock should be standard, But so should a decent website!

 

[Andyh82]

The idea that Nottingham, Reading are the worst bus companies and Arriva Southern Counties is the best is laughable.

The only reason seems to be that they use multiple different liveries and Arriva paint everything the same, and offer return tickets!

 

[EnviroExplorer]

I can see why Transdev is 50/50 on people’s views, and myself am on on the negative side - they are far too driven by publicity more than anything else, though I haven’t ever rode any of their services so can’t comment any further than that.

Trent Barton seem to get some backlash for various reasons, but always found them a good company, though not quite as good as they portray themselves. Nottingham City Transport are easily one of the best operators as a few have mentioned, and have won awards in being so. Very modern, smart fleet that is colour coded but not as confusing as Transdevs approach, though I get that they are to very different operations. Also, the new Gas buses are very striking and some of the nicest ‘city’ Buses I have travelled on in internally, you can tell that thought has gone into them, and I like the lack of higher backed seating which is not necessary for City operations imo.

As mentioned, Ensignbus and Southdown both great independents, and I would like to add Midland Classic to them. Very smart fleet and always had good experiences with them. In contrast, Diamond are certainly not one of the best operators out there! Shoddy maintenance, unreliable services, poor customer service, and general lack of investsment until recent times makes them my worst operator used. They have now got som new Streetlites and Mellor minis, but these will soon turn to the wrecks that the similar 65 plates have become, and they certainly need to up their standards.

First are also being slated for one thing or another but what I have started to like about First as their effort to appearance of Buses. Unlike Arriva who just have one uniform livery, First have started using more local route brandings, incorporating old names and people will like them for that. Even with limited resources, the likes of Worcester, Slough and South Wales are looking much smarter than ever in recent times. However, I do appreciate that their customer service is hit or miss, and reliability can be poor. At least, some areas are doing really well like WoE, Glasgow and Kernow, seeing plenty of investment. There is some areas that have seen little effort, probably down to management or funds, so they are probably better in the hands of Go Ahead in Manchester’s case. Speaking of GA, always had good experiences with them, and GSC is another of the best operations we have.

 

[Belperpete]

I don't have such problem. The trentbarton times that I have state if its am or pm at the top.
Now I live on a trentbarton route and I think the branding help with the identity of the routes and visually and adds some locality to it as well. I got the bus home today and upon walking to the bus station I could see that my bus was not there yet even though it uses the bay at the end so I knew I didn't need to rush. Also the brand name do not bother me as I have always called it 'the villager' even in the days when there was V1, V2 etc. Overall I think they are 'really good' with smart buses, friendly drivers and staff and publicity such as paper timetables on the buses.

As someone who uses both Trent and Arriva, I would choose Trent over Arriva any day. Trent buses always look clean and modern, have comfortable seating, USB charging and WiFi. Arriva buses are generally older and dirtier than Trent buses, with cheaper and decidedly less-comfortable seats, and often without even WiFi let alone USB charging. Trent drivers are unfailingly friendly and helpful, whereas Arriva drivers are often totally disinterested. Trent have a web-site that is easy to use and customer friendly, whereas the last time I tried using the Arriva web-site I gave up it was so unhelpful. The Trent Mango card is simple, easy to use, and gives a good discount, whereas Arriva don't offer anything comparable.

I still remember when my local Trent buses were R61, R62, etc. When they first introduced the branding I dismissed it as a marketing gimmick, but there are advantages. The branding helps you spot what service is approaching at a considerable distance even in relatively poor visibility, whereas with Arriva you are desperately trying to read the service code on a fast approaching bus to decide whether to put your hand out or not. And because buses are dedicated to the routes they are branded for, I think it gives the drivers of those routes a greater sense of pride in "their" buses, rather than it just being any old bus out of a large pool.

 

[jammy36]

Interesting to hear your views. I am surprised that so many people like them. But i do wonder what ordinary staff and passengers (who are not bus enthusiasts or experts on buses) think about these companies. I doubt that all of their views would be as positive.

No need to wonder, as Transport Focus (Passenger Focus as was) produce an annual ''state of the nation" passenger satisfaction survey. Several of the companies you highlight as being poor score highly or even top the survey. Go Ahead Group companies consistently do well, and unsurprisingly Go Ahead is the top rated big group.

 

[goldisgood]

The idea that Nottingham, Reading are the worst bus companies and Arriva Southern Counties is the best is laughable.
The only reason seems to be that they use multiple different liveries and Arriva paint everything the same, and offer return tickets!

And as I mentioned earlier, across their operation Arriva have 9 different liveries running around regularly.

First are also being slated for one thing or another but what I have started to like about First as their effort to appearance of Buses. Unlike Arriva who just have one uniform livery, First have started using more local route brandings, incorporating old names and people will like them for that. Even with limited resources, the likes of Worcester, Slough and South Wales are looking much smarter than ever in recent times. However, I do appreciate that their customer service is hit or miss, and reliability can be poor. At least, some areas are doing really well like WoE, Glasgow and Kernow, seeing plenty of investment. There is some areas that have seen little effort, probably down to management or funds, so they are probably better in the hands of Go Ahead in Manchester’s case. Speaking of GA, always had good experiences with them, and GSC is another of the best operations we have.

First are really showing that they are trying to turn things around. Investment into key areas and not even mid-life cascades to areas such as Norwich combined with smart new brands such as those in Bristol give a better impression, at least from the outside.

 

[Jordan Adam]

First are really showing that they are trying to turn things around. Investment into key areas and not even mid-life cascades to areas such as Norwich combined with smart new brands such as those in Bristol give a better impression, at least from the outside.

First still have a long way to go, but certainly on the whole things are looking on the up.

 

[goldisgood]

No need to wonder, as Transport Focus (Passenger Focus as was) produce an annual ''state of the nation" passenger satisfaction survey. Several of the companies you highlight as being poor score highly or even top the survey. Go Ahead Group companies consistently do well, and inspiringly Go Ahead is the top rated big group.

It will be interesting to see the next report due out in the next month or so. Of the two Rotala subsidiaries surveyed, they are both below average unsurprisingly, with Diamond Worcestershire the worst operator surveed. The next report may have more subsidiaries on, and will be interesting to look at.