Police vs Railway

[Tom Quinne]

Your last few words sum it up !
You stand up for your team, challenge the ****tardry from the pips and crowns you’ll kill any chance you have of breaking past the skippers office.

Those who are willing to stick on their team will race up the ladder faster than a PPO.

 

[Kse]

As a former PC in a county force way back in the early 2000s it was crap then, it’s got worse!

I was faced with a crossroad when I was 19, police or railway.

My father was ex services then railway, but I always wanted to be a PC so I choose the Police route 3 years of my life that has left a lasting mental effect.

I joined the railway when Pay was crap, the police paid more.

I have to ask the people leaving or thinking about leaving why train driving ?

It’s boring, the shifts are crap, your equally likely to lose your job for messing up, the law of the land is rounding on you if you do mess up.

I’d assume it’s 99% about the money, when you’ve spent 10+ years of your life in a unskilled role (let’s face it the police like the railway is unskilled work) one of the few jobs with a good outlook security and pay wise for the unskilled worker is the railway aka driving.

What does worry me is the flood of ex blue light personnel who are jumping ship potentially being selected at interview on the back of their service purely ahead of people who are equally well suited but lack the perceived desirable traits railway Hr are looking for.

It seems a real interest in the job is taking a second, third and fourth seat these days to pay.

What is wrong with leaving for the money? There's no obligation to stay in a career that doesn't pay what you feel you deserve.

And sure you'll get in trouble driving for doing the wrong thing. As much as i know though in regards to driving, you don't get in trouble for doing the right thing...

 

[Dave_blood]

I would say salary plays a massive part. After all it is why we actually go to work.

The police pay isnt bad now that I'm top rate. But I'm on the old pay scales. I would not even consider joining the police on their current pay scales considering the risks and the way you get treated.

 

[Tom Quinne]

£18,000 starting rate outside the Met isn’t it ?
It’s disgusting and disrespectful to expect people to undertake a role where they are expected to be the fall guy for all societies many problems.

This country should take a leaf out of the US they hero worship their armed forces and police (the law abiding anyway).

I don’t blame anyone who has given their life to public service, been repeatedly let down then decides the risk simply isn’t worth it.

However, what I am saying is generally speaking there seems to be a rush to the railway sense pay has been publicly promoted to be very very good, especially driving grade roles and recently Signaller jobs.

Where’s all the threads about despatch jobs or shunting for example ?

The railway used to be a family of people who joined when the pay was crap, but did the job because it wasn’t a job but a culture, a way of life. That is slowly being eroded away with the influx of people who see the job on for the pay only, no real desire to do a good job etc.

I’m not having a go at ex police (I am one) I’m just expressing my own feelings to towards a tend.

 

[Dave_blood]

There is a general saying going around the Met at the minute of many people saying "if I could find something of similar pay, I would leave". However I find that people get caught up in a bit of a slump because the whole job security is always in the back of their minds.

Me personally, a friend has given me a heads up for a specific role that is available soon which isnt even much better pay. I think a lot of old bill are now fed up with working conditions and it is now more the hearsay of rail staff making the grass sound greener, as opposed to the pay being the key factor.

 

[Stigy]

£18,000 starting rate outside the Met isn’t it ?
It’s disgusting and disrespectful to expect people to undertake a role where they are expected to be the fall guy for all societies many problems.

it varies, but the least is £18 plus any allowances. BTP pay £22k plus allowances (£6k in London). The railway pays well regardless of jobs in my experience. Shunters are on about £28k plus enhancements (some warm £40k a year) where I work, and station staff, although only on £18k basic, earn £30k a year.

 

[Tom Quinne]

it varies, but the least is £18 plus any allowances. BTP pay £22k plus allowances (£6k in London).

There was a housing crisis program on ITV back last year where a PC who had a little girl had to live in a HOSTEL as she literally could make ends meat !

However, for every 10 PCs leaving there’ll be 100 people falling over themselves (just like train driving) to get the job.

Nothing will change, pay or terms wise until people stop applying for the role but as well know standards will be dropped so low the quality of policing will drop to keep the bodies through the door.

 

[Stigy]

There was a housing crisis program on ITV back last year where a PC who had a little girl had to live in a HOSTEL as she literally could make ends meat !

However, for every 10 PCs leaving there’ll be 100 people falling over themselves (just like train driving) to get the job.

Nothing will change, pay or terms wise until people stop applying for the role but as well know standards will be dropped so low the quality of policing will drop to keep the bodies through the door.

I saw the documentary. I agree nothing will change as it’s a captive audience. Always has been, always will be. It doesn’t matter how it’s sold now, policing is still attractive career choice compared to working at other places. I added to my other post prior to you posting by the way.

 

[Topcat999]

It's a scary state of affairs.

I'd say for every job there are at least 10+ willing candidates. It's getting higher and higher.

When you have double glazed window (sellers) scammers making £70,000+ per annum I can see why some would do it for a few years.

Police: I would never let my sons do it. Same as fireman. Nothing against them at all. But it's a hard life. Too hard. Not the same as it used to be and only going to get worse.

 

[Tom Quinne]

It’s a joke, Constables and Fire fighters are now expected work way past 60!

How on Earth is even a very fit 65 year old meant to restraint a 18/25/35 man who has a lot more to fight for, or a firemen aged 60 meant to undertake the physically demanding tasks his/her younger crew mates do ?

Pay police and fire fighters a good wage and pension then finish them at 55 to reflect the job they do.

 

[Mag_seven]

Pay police and fire fighters a good wage and pension then finish them at 55 to reflect the job they do.

We need to boot the Tories out first though.

 

[dctraindriver]

There was a housing crisis program on ITV back last year where a PC who had a little girl had to live in a HOSTEL as she literally could make ends meat !

However, for every 10 PCs leaving there’ll be 100 people falling over themselves (just like train driving) to get the job.

Nothing will change, pay or terms wise until people stop applying for the role but as well know standards will be dropped so low the quality of policing will drop to keep the bodies through the door.

I don’t think that’s the case as such now Tom. New recruits will be expected to have degrees and the churnage of cops leaving compared to those joining is causing serious issues.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Labour are just as bad, politics in this country is a joke - a very very unfunny sad joke.

 

[Kse]

With the addition of paying for needless CKP training...starting the role of a police officer with debt is always fun.

 

[Dave_blood]

The whole retirement age is not even communicated very well. I still dont know at what age or length of service I can retire at anymore. And a lot of people with similar service to me are exactly the same.

Unfortunately with recruitment, they now want people with degrees, people residing inside the M25 (for the Met). And then you have the growing popularity of fast track schemes with people being escalated through the ranks.

 

[Mojo]

Don't forget it's not just train driving in the railway; if you like the response nature of the police then a role such as a Mom (Mobile Operations Manager) with Network Rail might suit. I'm not sure if there's anything being advertised right now but they had a few external job adverts online a month or so ago.

There are also positions such as revenue/ticket examiner and guard if you don't want to do something as isolated as being a driver.

 

[Tom Quinne]

With the addition of paying for needless CKP training...starting the role of a police officer with debt is always fun.

One of the questions and potential baring circumstances was debt to reduce corruption.

 

[Tom Quinne]

The whole retirement age is not even communicated very well. I still dont know at what age or length of service I can retire at anymore. And a lot of people with similar service to me are exactly the same.

Unfortunately with recruitment, they now want people with degrees, people residing inside the M25 (for the Met). And then you have the growing popularity of fast track schemes with people being escalated through the ranks.

I knew quite a few people from outside the M25 (by quite a way) who brought fantastic skills to to the job who would now be effectively banned from applying.

 

[Topcat999]

Train drivers will require degrees very soon. Mark my words. The bar is going higher and higher as more and more people chase jobs. Wages will probably stagnate

Look at nursing. Gone from a job every women could do to now you need a degree to get through the door. The standard has dropped massively as they have shifted from people doing it for the love of the job to "i have a degree, it pays a wage therefore I'll do it"

Heck....even bin men will need degrees soon. No offence.

 

[Cavan]

As an aside latest drive for new PCs from the met abolished the living in a London post code for several years criteria.

 

[Highlandspring]

Train drivers will require degrees very soon. Mark my words. The bar is going higher and higher as more and more people chase jobs. Wages will probably stagnate

Look at nursing. Gone from a job every women could do to now you need a degree to get through the door. The standard has dropped massively as they have shifted from people doing it for the love of the job to "i have a degree, it pays a wage therefore I'll do it"

But in turn the value of degrees in society is plummeting like a lead-lined safe thrown out of an aeroplane.

 

[Stigy]

Train drivers will require degrees very soon. Mark my words. The bar is going higher and higher as more and more people chase jobs. Wages will probably stagnate

Look at nursing. Gone from a job every women could do to now you need a degree to get through the door. The standard has dropped massively as they have shifted from people doing it for the love of the job to "i have a degree, it pays a wage therefore I'll do it"

Heck....even bin men will need degrees soon. No offence.

Some companies are already heading in that direction with train driver apprenticeships. NWR do this for signallers. The railway already favours those with degrees in their management graduate schemes etc.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Train drivers will require degrees very soon. Mark my words. The bar is going higher and higher as more and more people chase jobs. Wages will probably stagnate

Look at nursing. Gone from a job every women could do to now you need a degree to get through the door. The standard has dropped massively as they have shifted from people doing it for the love of the job to "i have a degree, it pays a wage therefore I'll do it"

Heck....even bin men will need degrees soon. No offence.

East Midlands Trains have already started a advanced qualification scheme for their trainees with the support of ASLEF.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Some companies are already heading in that direction with train driver apprenticeships. NWR do this for signallers. The railway already favours those with degrees in their management graduate schemes etc.

Isn’t it about tapping into the government apprenticeship scheme aka an additional funding stream with no real benefit to those forced to take part?

 

[Highlandspring]

Yes, it’s a tax dodge.

 

[Stigy]

Isn’t it about tapping into the government apprenticeship scheme aka an additional funding stream with no real benefit to those forced to take part?

Yes basically. I have a few certificates that I can supposedly use for things but I’ve never completed a course or evidenced the fact I’m qualified to do anything

Likewise I doubt I’d be able to actually use said qualifications for anything other than making my CV look good. It’s the same with a lot of apprenticeships.....an Apprevticeship in making coffee?

 

[Tom Quinne]

Yes, it’s a tax dodge.

From what I’ve seen and been told by the people being forced to do the scheme all it does is delay their passing out to do the job their being paid to do !

Costs the firm money, but makes the scheme provider a shed load of cash id assume.

 

[Marx]

Some companies are already heading in that direction with train driver apprenticeships. NWR do this for signallers. The railway already favours those with degrees in their management graduate schemes etc.

With train driving being so popular I can’t see it being too much longer when TOCs introduce a pay to driver scheme similar to what a lot of airlines are doing at the moment ... they realised they’re were a lot of people wanting to be pilots and could make money off them by getting them to pay the airline for their training and type rating and then employing them as 200 hour first officers Ryan air and easy jet to name but a few ... if TOCs cotton onto the fact there is cash to be made from people wanting to be train drivers I can’t see it being long I’ll they follow the airlines example ..the old bill already fleece new recruits these days for over a grand for their CKP ...

 

[Topcat999]

With train driving being so popular I can’t see it being too much longer when TOCs introduce a pay to driver scheme similar to what a lot of airlines are doing at the moment ... they realised they’re were a lot of people wanting to be pilots and could make money off them by getting them to pay the airline for their training and type rating and then employing them as 200 hour first officers Ryan air and easy jet to name but a few ... if TOCs cotton onto the fact there is cash to be made from people wanting to be train drivers I can’t see it being long I’ll they follow the airlines example ..the old bill already fleece new recruits these days for over a grand for their CKP ...

Jees......don't give them ideas.

I too thought with all these people chasing this position they are missing a trick....soon they won't. Betta get in quick...window maybve closing

 

[Topcat999]

East Midlands Trains have already started a advanced qualification scheme for their trainees with the support of ASLEF.

Yeah it was bound to happen. Look how easy it was to get into pre 1990's...then it has got harder and harder...