Off peak ticket during on peak

[Jamie_786]

Hi all, hoping I could get some help from someone.

Today whilst travelling into London I purchased by accident an off peak ticket from the trainline app whilst waiting in the queue at the station (as the train was due to arrive in minutes, so couldn’t afford to wait any longer).

Anyhow I boarded the train with no issues and the ticket officer allowed me to walk through the barriers to avoid congestion (I don’t think he really paid attention to my ticket type). However when I got into London I was told I had the incorrect ticket type and my details were taken, I explained that this was done by error and I literally had no idea.

I was told to expect a letter in the post from GWR, can someone please explain what could happen I mentioned that I would not swindle GWR for £3!!!! as the on peak ticket with rail card cost £15.25 and the off peak costs £12. I’m so glad my rail card was up to date.

Can someone please explain the likely outcome, this is my first encounter.

Many thanks

 

[furlong]

You'll need to provide further details - approximate time, exact ticket/journey, delivery method - was it one that needed collecting or activating before use etc. The normal procedure would be to charge you the difference in fare on the spot (under the contract - National Rail Conditions of Travel paragraph 9.5.1) so the question is what the inspector saw or what you said that led him or her not to do that.

9.5. Where you are using a time-restricted Ticket (such as an ‘off-peak’ or ‘super-off-peak’ Ticket) that is correctly dated but:
9.5.1. invalid for the service on which you are travelling
...
you will be charged the difference between the fare that you have paid and the lowest price Ticket that is valid for the train you are using.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi all, hoping I could get some help from someone.

Today whilst travelling into London I purchased by accident an off peak ticket from the trainline app whilst waiting in the queue at the station (as the train was due to arrive in minutes, so couldn’t afford to wait any longer).

Anyhow I boarded the train with no issues and the ticket officer allowed me to walk through the barriers to avoid congestion (I don’t think he really paid attention to my ticket type). However when I got into London I was told I had the incorrect ticket type and my details were taken, I explained that this was done by error and I literally had no idea.

I was told to expect a letter in the post from GWR, can someone please explain what could happen I mentioned that I would not swindle GWR for £3!!!! as the on peak ticket with rail card cost £15.25 and the off peak costs £12. I’m so glad my rail card was up to date.

Can someone please explain the likely outcome, this is my first encounter.

Many thanks

It's an entirely civil matter unless they have evidence you had intent to avoid payment of the fare.

They will no doubt send you a letter, and ask you to pay the difference between the two fares. There shouldn't be any more to it than that.

By the way - the counterpart of an Off-Peak ticket is an Anytime ticket.

 

[Jamie_786]

You'll need to provide further details - approximate time, exact ticket/journey, delivery method - was it one that needed collecting or activating before use etc. The normal procedure would be to charge you the difference in fare on the spot (under the contract - National Rail Conditions of Travel paragraph 9.5.1) so the question is what the inspector saw or what you said that led him or her not to do that.

Thanks for your reply, I just explained my situation that’s all and he proceeded to say regardless what you have to say this ticket is invalid, but I just wanted to ask I am reading a lot of people have been interviewed under caution but in my case this definitely was not the case not at one point did the inspector read me my rights or Caution me, but they still proceeded to give me this little slip which says you have been reported for prosecution. Hoping it’s nothing serious

 

[Jamie_786]

It's an entirely civil matter unless they have evidence you had intent to avoid payment of the fare.

They will no doubt send you a letter, and ask you to pay the difference between the two fares. There shouldn't be any more to it than that.

By the way - the counterpart of an Off-Peak ticket is an Anytime ticket.

Thanks for you reply I just don’t see why he didn’t let me pay the extra £3, I’m hoping it’s as simple as that.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks for you reply I just don’t see why he didn’t let me pay the extra £3, I’m hoping it’s as simple as that.

Did the inspector ask you any questions at all, beyond your details?

 

[Jamie_786]

No not really just literally asked me for my details and confirmed they were correct and then got me to sign a little booklet confirming the events and then handed me a zero fare ticket after taking my original. At no point did he caution me or read me my rights

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

No not really just literally asked me for my details and confirmed they were correct and then got me to sign a little booklet confirming the events and then handed me a zero fare ticket after taking my original. At no point did he caution me or read me my rights

What did the booklet say?

 

[Jamie_786]

It said I was travelling with an off peak ticket during on peak hours and that I got the ticket from the machine, that’s all it said

 

[furlong]

So you had a physical ticket - from where did you collect it? A machine at your station of origin?

 

[Jamie_786]

So you had a physical ticket - from where did you collect it? A machine at your station of origin?

So I collected the ticket from my starting station from the ticket machine as I paid for it on trainline over the phone whilst in the queue. I went pass the barriers at my station as they were open and the ticket inspector didn’t really say anything when I flashed the card. I got stopped when I tried using the card at Paddington

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

So I collected the ticket from my starting station from the ticket machine as I paid for it on trainline over the phone whilst in the queue. I went pass the barriers at my station as they were open and the ticket inspector didn’t really say anything when I flashed the card. I got stopped when I tried using the card at Paddington

Seems like they were incorrect in taking your details, but hopefully they will just write to you and ask for the difference in the fare. Let us know if they write back asking for anything else.

Just to make sure you were indeed travelling at a time where your ticket wasn't valid - when did you travel, and what ticket did you hold?

 

[Jamie_786]

Seems like they were incorrect in taking your details, but hopefully they will just write to you and ask for the difference in the fare. Let us know if they write back asking for anything else.

Just to make sure you were indeed travelling at a time where your ticket wasn't valid - when did you travel, and what ticket did you hold?

Hopefully but he was adamant I was in the wrong with an invalid ticket- I guess he was technically correct.

So I took the 8:51am train that got to Paddington at 9:25 ish, however I should have taken the 9:16am from my starting station.

Will let you guys know as soon as I get the letter, do you know how long I can expect for this to arrive

 

[Hadders]

I would not put it pst GWR to write saying that they are considering prosecution and asking you for your version of events. It would, of course, be totally wrong of GWR to behave like this but I would not put it past them.

If this does happen come back here and we will advise on how to respond.

 

[Jamie_786]

I would not put it pst GWR to write saying that they are considering prosecution and asking you for your version of events. It would, of course, be totally wrong of GWR to behave like this but I would not put it past them.

If this does happen come back here and we will advise on how to respond.

Thanks buddy really appreciate it, will keep you guys informed!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hopefully but he was adamant I was in the wrong with an invalid ticket- I guess he was technically correct.

So I took the 8:51am train that got to Paddington at 9:25 ish, however I should have taken the 9:16am from my starting station.

Will let you guys know as soon as I get the letter, do you know how long I can expect for this to arrive

You may have had an invalid ticket, but it is one of those times where you are perfectly entitled to obtain the excess onboard the train or (if for example the train is Driver Only Operated) at your destination.

It could in theory take anything up to 6 months for the letter to arrive, as they have up to 6 months from the date of the event to start a prosecution if they want to do that. But usually people hear back within a few months.

 

[Jamie_786]

You may have had an invalid ticket, but it is one of those times where you are perfectly entitled to obtain the excess onboard the train or (if for example the train is Driver Only Operated) at your destination.

It could in theory take anything up to 6 months for the letter to arrive, as they have up to 6 months from the date of the event to start a prosecution if they want to do that. But usually people hear back within a few months.

Thank you so much for your time and your prompt replies I really appreciate it! I will let you know as soon as I hear anything from them

 

[gray1404]

The RPI should have just taken payment of the excess. He has taken your details incorrectly and not followed the procedure correctly. Plus this will actually cost the company more to deal with, certainly more then the c.£3 you owe.

Can I just ask though, when we went from the NRCoC to the NCRoT did this allow a PF to be charged if an Off Peak ticket was being used at the wrong time?

 

[Starmill]

The RPI should have just taken payment of the excess. He has taken your details incorrectly and not followed the procedure correctly. Plus this will actually cost the company more to deal with, certainly more then the c.£3 you owe.

Can I just ask though, when we went from the NRCoC to the NCRoT did this allow a PF to be charged if an Off Peak ticket was being used at the wrong time?

The NRCoT still just says you can be charged the fare due. The protection in the old Penalty Fares regulations was lost however (along with many other changes).

 

[furlong]

The NRCoT still just says you can be charged the fare due.

It's not just "can" but "will" - 9.5.1 appears to place an obligation on the company to charge the difference in fare i.e. not to do so would appear to breach the contract.

 

[Jamie_786]

It's not just "can" but "will" - 9.5.1 appears to place an obligation on the company to charge the difference in fare i.e. not to do so would appear to breach the contract.

Do you think I should go confront the ticket inspector today in the chance that he hasn’t allready sent off his report? I could show him the National rail policy and read him the policy under 9.5.1

 

[najaB]

Do you think I should go confront the ticket inspector today in the chance that he hasn’t allready sent off his report?

Go looking for someone in their place of work to "confront" them about an incident that involved the police being called? Yeah, can't see that going wrong at all.

Edit: Mixed this thread up with another one.

 

[Hadders]

Do you think I should go confront the ticket inspector today in the chance that he hasn’t allready sent off his report? I could show him the National rail policy and read him the policy under 9.5.1

I wouldn’t advise doing this.

 

[swt_passenger]

Go looking for someone in their place of work to "confront" them about an incident that involved the police being called? Yeah, can't see that going wrong at all.

Police called? Are you mixing this up with another thread, they haven’t been mentioned.

 

[najaB]

Police called? Are you mixing this up with another thread, they haven’t been mentioned.

Yes, I did mix it up with another current thread. Apologies to all, though it still doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[js1000]

Really don't understand why the conductor or RPI didn't just supplement the excess fare and bumped it up to a peak time ticket under NRCoT 9.5.3. It's a depressing state of affairs when too many staff clearly don't know the guidelines and rules set out and do not follow the correct procedure. TOCs need to do far more to train their staff, particularly third party agents, to an adequate standard.

I'd actually be amazed if the TOC actually got in touch with you over this as the most they can charge you the £3 excess fare so it's not going to be worth the hassle so don't go looking for your 'friend' as it's not worth it. Although, try not to do it again in the next 6 months because that will potentially ring alarm bells if an over-zealous RPI decides to take you name and address.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Although, try not to do it again in the next 6 months because that will potentially ring alarm bells if an over-zealous RPI decides to take you name and address.

Ring alarm bells for what? It's permissible to do it on the train, that's the end of the matter! The only time it could be causing any suspicion would be if it were done day in, day out, in a seeming attempt to 'get away' with paying the unexcessed fare. Not exactly likely somewhere like Paddington!

 

[RPI]

Just one question, were you stopped going through the barriers or were you stopped after having passed through the barriers? I'm assuming that as you've said GWR and London that this was Paddington? If that's the case is it possible you were stopped going through one of the service gates? May seem like trivial questions but may make sense of the course of action that was taken.

 

[Belperpete]

Just one question, were you stopped going through the barriers or were you stopped after having passed through the barriers? I'm assuming that as you've said GWR and London that this was Paddington? If that's the case is it possible you were stopped going through one of the service gates? May seem like trivial questions but may make sense of the course of action that was taken.

See previous response:

I got stopped when I tried using the card at Paddington

 

[Jamie_786]

I got stopped whilst showing the ticket inspector my card as the barriers were open due to congestion. The ticket Inspector was just standing there looking at tickets whilst people were walking and and as I showed him mine whilst walking through he immediately stopped me saying it was an off peak ticket