Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[jspillman]

You haven't even travelled on the FLIRT's, so you cant say that as a fact just yet!

There's already lots of much better trains than the life expired mk3's on the rails in the UK.

Commuters and occasional travellers want and deserve a much better experience than they get now. It's only enthusiasts defending the ancient stock.

I know... I'm just bias I like old stuff... I've seen the class 90's literally everyday pretty much out of Norwich and I'm one of those people who don't wanna see them go!

What would you compare and consider better than a 'life expired mk3'??

Just you wait I bet that as soon as these commuters get these new trains they so desperately 'deserve' within a week they'll be begging for the old ones back I can see it happening! I bet these new flirts won't last half as long as the MK3s and locos...

 

[jspillman]

Oh yes. Not bad old girls on the whole. Looking forward to the new stuff though. I'm not that much of a sentimentalist.

Oh wow that's so cool I'd absolutely love to drive a class 90 or any train to be honest that's my dream job! Sadly being 17 that isn't gonna happen just yet...

Which is your favourite class 90 out of all you've driven if you had to pick one?

You see I am very attached to these trains for multiple reasons so I'll be sad to see them go...
I'd spoken to a couple of other drivers who were very against the new trains but they couldn't describe why... What do you think about the new stuff?

 

[dk1]

Just you wait I bet that as soon as these commuters get these new trains they so desperately 'deserve' within a week they'll be begging for the old ones back I can see it happening! I bet these new flirts won't last half as long as the MK3s and locos...

Of course they will. I remember when Sprinters took over in the mid 80s. The railwaymen of the day came out with the same old clap trap that they won't last as long as these old girls (meaning the 101s/105s) yet here we are in 2019 & that record has been beaten with no sign of them retiring for many years yet.

 

[dk1]

Oh wow that's so cool I'd absolutely love to drive a class 90 or any train to be honest that's my dream job! Sadly being 17 that isn't gonna happen just yet...

Which is your favourite class 90 out of all you've driven if you had to pick one?

You see I am very attached to these trains for multiple reasons so I'll be sad to see them go...
I'd spoken to a couple of other drivers who were very against the new trains but they couldn't describe why... What do you think about the new stuff?

I don't have a particular favourite to be honest. As long as they have four legs I'm happy. As I said 001 is the best off the mark. Onwards & upwards with the new traction. It's time for change & hope to do some training on them very soon.

 

[jspillman]

Of course they will. I remember when Sprinters took over in the mid 80s. The railwaymen of the day came out with the same old clap trap that they won't last as long as these old girls (meaning the 101s/105s) yet here we are in 2019 & that record has been beaten with no sign of them retiring for many years yet.

Yes that's true it's very interesting how things have happened over the years. But I don't know maybe it's just me I feel like these new trains won't be as solid if you know what I mean for example the MK3 coaches, when you travel on them you get that very satisfying bang when the door is definitely shut traveling at 100mph is smooth and nothing feels like it's gonna fall apart. People on here are moaning that they're 'life expired' like seriously just because they squeak when some pressure is applied from the loco pushing and pulling makes them life expired??
I think it'll be like traveling to London on these new trains like going from a solid MK3 coach that can't be beaten by anything to travelling on a 170 which everything is constantly rattling and feels like it's gonna fall apart all plastic and rubbish... But oh well that's my opinion.

 

[jspillman]

I don't have a particular favourite to be honest. As long as they have four legs I'm happy. As I said 001 is the best off the mark. Onwards & upwards with the new traction. It's time for change & hope to do some training on them very soon.

That's interesting to hear... I'd be interested to know once you've done your training etc on the new ones what you think of them compared to the old?

Have you heard anything about GA keeping 2 90's and 2 spare sets once the new stock is here... That's what I got told from them but I just can't understand how because of this whole prm 2020 thing...??

 

[Railperf]

Haha! Do you drive the 90's then?

Actually..i have enjoyed some fast runs behind 001 historically!!

 

[86246]

All down to weight. This is an additional scratch set being put together. We struggle now with buffets & currently have a trolley set running about. Drivers have been asked which 90s they find better than others so hopefully these can be allocated to those diagrams.

I wondered where the extra set was coming from. I hope that this doesn't mean that there is an increased chance of the 06:25 from London, 09:00 from Norwich etc being 321s.

 

[dk1]

I wondered where the extra set was coming from. I hope that this doesn't mean that there is an increased chance of the 06:25 from London, 09:00 from Norwich etc being 321s.

May well be. Sounds the logical option. Other than that there will be more short forms.

 

[dk1]

That's interesting to hear... I'd be interested to know once you've done your training etc on the new ones what you think of them compared to the old?

Have you heard anything about GA keeping 2 90's and 2 spare sets once the new stock is here... That's what I got told from them but I just can't understand how because of this whole prm 2020 thing...??

Loads of rumours doing the rounds. It doesn't sound a practical solution in the long term.

 

[Railperf]

Will be any of the pool of 90s on a load 8 IC set (no catering vehicke).

Load 8 is 7 mk3's plus the DVT?

 

[306024]

May well be. Sounds the logical option. Other than that there will be more short forms.

There will be more short forms anyway, but on the 12 car 321 peak diagrams to provide units for the 06.25 LST - NRW etc. Can’t see 321 availability miraculously improving for any sustained period. This, and the timetable changes that come with it, is what is upsetting the Clacton line fraternity in particular.

 

[dk1]

Load 8 is 7 mk3's plus the DVT?

Yes that's correct. I can't abide this only counting the passenger vehicles that they changed to please the whingers on Twitter.

 

[Railperf]

Do you reckon you could meet the 90 min timings load 10?

 

[dk1]

Do you reckon you could meet the 90 min timings load 10?

With a clear run, easily.

 

[Railperf]

Thats what i thought

 

[Railperf]

It will be interesting to see what happens when other services joining the mainline ahead are running late. It is crucial operationally to ensure that these services in particular run to time and that decisive decisions are taken to try and keep the Norwich in 90 min service in path.

 

[chubs]

travelling on a 170 which everything is constantly rattling and feels like it's gonna fall apart all plastic and rubbish... But oh well that's my opinion.

When the 170's were new they weren't rattling about, and the XC ones don't do it nearly as much. Actually I remember being quite impressed when I first travelled on one London Liverpool St to Norwich with it's mini buffet (no mk3's then, it was normally mk2's and 86).

I assumed it's not as simple as sending a fitter with a screwdriver round to tighten everything up or it would have been done....

 

[Shunter_69]

It will be interesting to see what happens when other services joining the mainline ahead are running late. It is crucial operationally to ensure that these services in particular run to time and that decisive decisions are taken to try and keep the Norwich in 90 min service in path.

Oh great, even more time sat in loops and platforms waiting for late running Inter City services.

 

[cambsy]

On Monday 20th May should i expect to see a 90 and Mk3 set on the Norwich in 90 services? When is it thought that the Stadler Flirts will start operating the 90 min services? Thanks

 

[LAX54]

Loads of 747's are scrapped or stored awaiting scrapping, very few if any 100/200/300 are in any kind of regular service anywhere in the world and they haven't been for many years. Many 400's are also now stored and airlines are retiring them as like the mk3's they have done their time and are now life expired and even with a refresh cannot provide an experience that passengers want. I avoid BA and some KLM flights due to their ancient 747's and my experiences on them were 20 years ago! Maybe they could give them a refurbishment but the fact is brand new models are superior in every way.

You cannot polish a turd, the mk3's are done. Even the comprehensively refurbished ones only have a finite life left and will be razor blades in 10 years.

They are in indeed (slowly) being replaced, but you only have to look at Twitter and Instagram, when passnegers find they are on a 747 and not a 330 / 380 and the likes are over the moon ! however the 787 seems to be a worthy replacement, as for the A380 well ony have only done 4 or 5 flights and thats enough for me ! terrible aircraft !

 

[Railperf]

Oh great, even more time sat in loops and platforms waiting for late running Inter City services.

Except there aren't many spare platforms and loops to sit in on the GEML!!

 

[Dave1987]

It will be interesting to see what happens when other services joining the mainline ahead are running late. It is crucial operationally to ensure that these services in particular run to time and that decisive decisions are taken to try and keep the Norwich in 90 min service in path.

So you would delay multiple GE services to keep one Intercity on time? That's madness. Since the hold time for GE services for late running Intercitys has been dramatically cut the performance of GE has increased pretty dramatically. Which kind of proves your theory of delaying loads of other services to keep one on time is a false premise.

 

[chubs]

They are in indeed (slowly) being replaced, but you only have to look at Twitter and Instagram, when passnegers find they are on a 747 and not a 330 / 380 and the likes are over the moon ! however the 787 seems to be a worthy replacement, as for the A380 well ony have only done 4 or 5 flights and thats enough for me ! terrible aircraft !

Opposite for me, I have paid more to fly on an A380 (Singapore) than tired knackered old 747's from BA and KLM. I expect a level of comfort and service, and 747's do not deliver it and look like they belong in the 80's.

 

[Dave1987]

Opposite for me, I have paid more to fly on an A380 (Singapore) than tired knackered old 747's from BA and KLM. I expect a level of comfort and service, and 747's do not deliver it and look like they belong in the 80's.

Blimey I'm surprised you want to travel on something as "old" as an A380. I would have thought you wouldn't settle for anything with more than 500 airframe hours. There is a problem with your way of thinking. If you don't keep anything in useful, money making service for its intended lifespan you increase the costs of that asset. And that cost has to go on your ticket. So if they had scrapped the "tired knackered old 747" before now for newer aircraft they would have to increase your plane ticket to pay for the fact they did not get the design life out of the airframe. Its the same for all assets be it aircraft, trains, buses etc etc. The only reason the 747 is being scrapped and taken out of production is because of the ETOPS rating that the likes of the 787 and A350 can achieve.

 

[Railperf]

So you would delay multiple GE services to keep one Intercity on time? That's madness. Since the hold time for GE services for late running Intercitys has been dramatically cut the performance of GE has increased pretty dramatically. Which kind of proves your theory of delaying loads of other services to keep one on time is a false premise.

I'm not suggesting delaying any other services at all. The current timetable does have enough slack for trains to regain time if they need to be held for a few minutes. It is pointless putting a Braintree stopper out in front of the fast services if holding it back allows the fast service to stay in its path and regain time. The stopper will also regain some time too. It all hinges on how late the express gets and whether it has a chance of regaining time.
What I am saying is that trying to path the Norwich in 90 flagship service on time is going to require more than the usual effort all round to ensure that other services run to time. Or it will be a flop!

 

[Dave1987]

I'm not suggesting delaying any other services at all. The current timetable does have enough slack for trains to regain time if they need to be held for a few minutes. It is pointless putting a Braintree stopper out in front of the fast services if holding it back allows the fast service to stay in its path and regain time. The stopper will also regain some time too. It all hinges on how late the express gets and whether it has a chance of regaining time.
What I am saying is that trying to path the Norwich in 90 flagship service on time is going to require more than the usual effort all round to ensure that other services run to time. Or it will be a flop!

The new way of calculating performance though means that once a service is late at any part of its journey it’s late. So you cannot now say ow don’t worry we will put 5 mins into that suburban service because it will be on time by the time it reaches it destination. So by delaying that Braintree by 5 mins just to get the flagship in front of it will mean the performance statistics will take a hammering, because it has a ripple effect with connections. It’s happened before where one service has been held because a Norwich was running late and the ripple effect with delayed connections has caused many many many minutes of delays.

 

[Railperf]

Out of interest, how are the performance stats looked at for stopping services and those with limited stops?

 

[Dave1987]

Out of interest, how are the performance stats looked at for stopping services and those with limited stops?

I believe all station stops are timed to the minute now and the stats are broken down in detail. I've seen stats posted around with a lot of detailed percentages broken down with percentages for trains which were late and by how many minutes etc. That's why your premise of chucking a few minutes into the suburban by holding it to allow the flagship through doesn't really work as with the new stats once that suburban is late it goes on the stats as late.

 

[chubs]

Blimey I'm surprised you want to travel on something as "old" as an A380. I would have thought you wouldn't settle for anything with more than 500 airframe hours. There is a problem with your way of thinking. If you don't keep anything in useful, money making service for its intended lifespan you increase the costs of that asset. And that cost has to go on your ticket. So if they had scrapped the "tired knackered old 747" before now for newer aircraft they would have to increase your plane ticket to pay for the fact they did not get the design life out of the airframe. Its the same for all assets be it aircraft, trains, buses etc etc. The only reason the 747 is being scrapped and taken out of production is because of the ETOPS rating that the likes of the 787 and A350 can achieve.

They have gotten the desired life out of the airframe though. The 747 lasted a lot longer than some of it's rivals such as the L1011 or some of the McD range. Same with the mk3's, they've lived a long life and now it's time for the razor blade factory.

Sure new models that are far more efficient save money and make sense economically but passengers also expect a certain level of service, and no matter how many times you refurb a 747 or an mk3 it's still clearly the same old dated junk underneath. I know I'm not the only person who avoids airlines flying 747-400's on longhaul routes, and I suspect there's quite a few who avoid the railway due to the mk3's.

In western European countries the trains rarely make it as long as ours do before scrapping, most of the NS stock in the Netherlands dates from the 1990's or later as they realise you can only refurb up to a certain point (ok the DDM1's are 1980 but they're going very soon and were only brought back to to shortage of decent stock).