More dangerous lineside behaviour around Flying Scotsman

[silverfoxcc]

I have only once gone 'lineside' and was still 70ft from the track. The fence was an obscene distance away. Having said that I sometimes 'possibly' trespass technically by extending the camera over the fence whilst i am still the 'legal' side to get around the vegetation problem.
But if see see anyone on the other side them if within a decent photo taking distance i shall now take pics ( just acquired a V.nice 100-400 canon IS) and phone plod. There should be a 'Do you know this person site'!!. These nutters are going to be the end of Steam if they carry on 'toe hanging' on platforms, going over fences etc. Although i can sort of sympathise with them when doing so, as in some cases they are not physically in danger BUT the law is the law, and if getting a leg over a fence gets you in court then so be it.
Sometimes i think that is is a self fulfilling prophecy, with the local press being a problem by giving it a lot of advance publicity. They shuld add riders that trespassers will be shot or something similar!! It doesn't seem to happen with other locos, sometimes it is just me and a bloke and his dog, hanging around at our local station ,and the staff being told what is happening!!

 

[The_Train]

I refer you to my question to Yorkie. What’s your solution? The Heritage Railway is the actual idea I said in the first place (ie banning them from the mainline) but staff suggesting that on here seems to cause a bit of upset. So I tried to come up with some actual alternatives that spared upsetting the feelings of some spotters on here. Good job I don’t run the railways or you’d be saying bye bye to steam on the mainline for the foreseeable future to teach people a lesson.

I'm not sure most people on here have become upset at the fact that you (or other railway staff) have suggested that FS be removed from the mainline, it's more the fact that it appears there has been a vast generalisation of all 'spotter types' being the problem. Ad a grown adult I'm more than capable of understanding rules and how I should behave in certain situations and don't appreciate being grouped with a minority of cretins who think the railway somehow owes them something by allowing them to do whatever they want.

As for the part of your post that I've highlighted, it's interesting that a staff member (I assume a driver from your username) sees 'teaching people a lesson' as a more important reason than safety and network efficiency for removing steam from the mainline. For the record, I agree that FS should have time away from the mainline if safety and efficiency is compromised by idiots, but your reasoning stinks of someone who has general issues with 'spotter types', and, to be quite frank, is embarrassing

 

[Timrud]

I tend to agree, the amount of delays and safety concerns created by steam trains should see them banned as soon as possible.

 

[driver_m]

I'm not sure most people on here have become upset at the fact that you (or other railway staff) have suggested that FS be removed from the mainline, it's more the fact that it appears there has been a vast generalisation of all 'spotter types' being the problem. Ad a grown adult I'm more than capable of understanding rules and how I should behave in certain situations and don't appreciate being grouped with a minority of cretins who think the railway somehow owes them something by allowing them to do whatever they want.

As for the part of your post that I've highlighted, it's interesting that a staff member (I assume a driver from your username) sees 'teaching people a lesson' as a more important reason than safety and network efficiency for removing steam from the mainline. For the record, I agree that FS should have time away from the mainline if safety and efficiency is compromised by idiots, but your reasoning stinks of someone who has general issues with 'spotter types', and, to be quite frank, is embarrassing

No, my concern is for one group of people, my fellow railway employees who will have to deal with the aftermath when someone goes too far. If that means I have a controversial view about how to fix this problem then so be it. In general, I have no problem with spotters, that is what I call rail enthusiasts who photograph or take numbers of trains, I don’t use it as a snide insult. After all, why would I pass on numbers of things like new units at edge hill or whatever our most freshly painted pendo is, if I hated or didn’t like them? I think the problem is more those looking to find offence where there isn’t any.

 

[Malcmal]

I must admit this amused me a lot ha ha!!

 

[Cowley]

I must admit this amused me a lot ha ha!!

That made me chuckle.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I am quite amazed they stick around to had their picture taken

 

[mpthomson]

Good. The more caught, the merrier.

Also all over the Daily Mail website too, which has the highest viewing figures of any internet news site.

 

[FGW_DID]

Err excuse me, see my post #198 from earlier in the thread

To be fair that was over 10 pages ago, I haven’t traipsed through the whole thread!

I’m glad somebody else does remember them.

 

[pieguyrob]

So basically, it comes down to the few ruining it for the many.
I personally don't care for kettles, but, don't see why others should not get their enjoyment from them, as long as they abide by the the rules/bylaws/statutory laws.
I personally make myself known at a station I am spotting at, I am prepared to purchase a platform ticket if they are sold. If a member of staff asks me to stay behind the yellow line I will do so. I do NOT want my actions to have an effect on myself or someone else in terms of the enjoyment of OUR hobby. I certainly do NOT want to cause an adverse affect on someone earning their living if they are employed by the railway.
Personally I think the law should be changed, so that if people are caught trespassing they should either be made to pay 25% of the delay compensation or £1000 pounds, which ever is the the greater value. That would soon stop them, possibly?

 

[pieguyrob]

Although it is un-related, it is a case in point. Last year at Crewe, it was the day of Gresty Bridge DRS open day. The number of anouncements made over the tannoy on the station about people on the wrong side of the yellow line, was ridiculous. My dad and myself, who were obeying the rules, were getting fed up of people disobeying them. It gives us a bad name, when we have done nothing wrong. It got more daft when 46100, Royal Scot turned up. You could not move for photographers. As train spotters, we were thinking, have you never seen a steam locomotive before? Even the PCSO's were fed up.

 

[Meerkat]

Once identified couldn’t NR Sue them for the delay cost? Make it a nice big number to get lots of media coverage - if they later settle out of court for much less it won’t make enough waves to outweigh the “didn’t someone get sued for thousands” memories and gossip.
A civil case is probably more scary in terms of cost and time than a ‘send a plea letter to court and pay the fine’ police case.

 

[6Gman]

Nobody seems to remember the “Q Trains” then? ECS with a number of BTP officers on board to catch vandals, trespassers etc etc

I well remember the Q Trains. Apart from my first point they still raise the same issues.

 

[mpthomson]

Personally I think the law should be changed, so that if people are caught trespassing they should either be made to pay 25% of the delay compensation or £1000 pounds, which ever is the the greater value. That would soon stop them, possibly?

Whilst I understand your frustration there’s no point in fining individuals huge amounts of money that they simply don’t have. They just don’t get paid.

 

[Wivenswold]

There are idiots in all groups of people sadly. You can't cure "Stupid". Anyone who deals with the public will know that it's a miracle that some people can dress themselves let alone get jobs, have families and can drive and vote.

 

[yorksrob]

No, my concern is for one group of people, my fellow railway employees who will have to deal with the aftermath when someone goes too far. If that means I have a controversial view about how to fix this problem then so be it. In general, I have no problem with spotters, that is what I call rail enthusiasts who photograph or take numbers of trains, I don’t use it as a snide insult. After all, why would I pass on numbers of things like new units at edge hill or whatever our most freshly painted pendo is, if I hated or didn’t like them? I think the problem is more those looking to find offence where there isn’t any.

We seem to have regular steam trains on the S&C and Scarborough lines round here that cause fewer hold-ups and problems than some non-charter fleets (thinking 180's and anything using the wires at certain East Coast locations).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I well remember the Q Trains. Apart from my first point they still raise the same issues.

Organised and went out on a few - a single class 121 touting for trade on the NLL / the DC / the T+H (and as a special favour Barking - Upminster) - good bunch of BTP and a radio car handy.

Excellent results when following a service train , you surprised a few undesirables. They really were not expecting this. Thought they had say 20 or 30 mins to drink , smoke a bit of weed etc - then the Police and TOC staff turn out in force. Fair does - the BTP could certainly shift in a chase.

Did it also with car trains in the West Midlands - again the element of surprise was magnificent on the Sutton Park line and around Small Heath.

 

[ArchieWoodbine]

Organised and went out on a few - a single class 121 touting for trade on the NLL / the DC / the T+H (and as a special favour Barking - Upminster) - good bunch of BTP and a radio car handy.

Excellent results when following a service train , you surprised a few undesirables. They really were not expecting this. Thought they had say 20 or 30 mins to drink , smoke a bit of weed etc - then the Police and TOC staff turn out in force. Fair does - the BTP could certainly shift in a chase.

Did it also with car trains in the West Midlands - again the element of surprise was magnificent on the Sutton Park line and around Small Heath.

I think NR have also done this more recently with trains to deter cable thieves in high risk areas, although it’s been a few years since I’ve seen any promotional material on it. Run at night with minimal lighting, night vision and a few hefty BTP officers to nick the wronguns.

More of a humorous suggestion than anything, but sending a rail-adhesion, weed-spraying or grinding train though with its sprinklers on would ensure people stay well back!

As an aside, some people have been touting £1000 as the default fine. In my area some access-point signs haven’t been updated since the early 80s and still show be fine as being £200. If you were caught trespassing and had only passed a £200 sign, could you still be clobbered with the £1000?

 

[6Gman]

Whilst I understand your frustration there’s no point in fining individuals huge amounts of money that they simply don’t have. They just don’t get paid.

Looking at some of the equipment they've got I think £1,000 would be reasonable.

 

[Adsy125]

Have any trespass incidents happened when FS has been south of London? As far as I’m aware Southerners haven’t been causing issues, it’s only been a problem in the North and Midlands, maybe she should just stay down South and in Scotland?

 

[Spamcan81]

Everyone caught or filmed trespassing throw them through the courts very publicly and don’t be lenient on them. Tell the media kettles will be banned from the main line if any more trespassing occurs. End of.

90+% of trespass incidents are completely unconnected with special trains so what do we do, ban all service trains?

 

[ArchieWoodbine]

Have any trespass incidents happened when FS has been south of London? As far as I’m aware Southerners haven’t been causing issues, it’s only been a problem in the North and Midlands, maybe she should just stay down South and in Scotland?

Well, it's taken 18 pages to reach the Northerners = Bad; Southerners = Good argument, but we got there eventually.

In all seriousness I think it's more the case that:

1. There are comparitively few railtours south of London owing to the density of commuter traffic.
2. There are more scenic lines in the North, so more railtours go there.

I'm sure you'll find your fair share of law abiding and disregarding spotters wherever you go.

 

[Jona26]

Well, it's taken 18 pages to reach the Northerners = Bad; Southerners = Good argument, but we got there eventually.

But Godwin's Law hasn't been invoked yet!!

 

[Esker-pades]

But Godwin's Law hasn't been invoked yet!!

If you insist....

The Nazi's were a thing, weren't they?

 

[Highlandspring]

Flying Scotsman ran from Edinburgh Waverley to Inverness today but notably there were no reports of trespass in connection with this at all.

 

[theironroad]

Have any trespass incidents happened when FS has been south of London? As far as I’m aware Southerners haven’t been causing issues, it’s only been a problem in the North and Midlands, maybe she should just stay down South and in Scotland?

I assume this a lame attempt at sarcasm......

If not, I cry for humanity......

 

[Adsy125]

I was mocking some of the more extreme responses from earlier, and have thclearly butdont actually erethink FS should be banned from the North. However have there been any incidents in Scotland or the South?

 

[Roger100]

Well, it's taken 18 pages to reach the Northerners = Bad; Southerners = Good argument, but we got there eventually.

In all seriousness I think it's more the case that:

1. There are comparitively few railtours south of London owing to the density of commuter traffic.
2. There are more scenic lines in the North, so more railtours go there.

I'm sure you'll find your fair share of law abiding and disregarding spotters wherever you go.

Looking through my photos, here's one of Flying Scotsman at Iver station in May 2016. Well publicised it did get a bit of interest so here are the crowds.

I live in the north east now, not much steam up here on the ECML and none allowed on the Durham Coast Line near me. We do get a few turn out for a Deltic now and then, the only trespassers I've seen were a handful of women who went down the slope bit of Hartlepool station to speak to the driver of one of the GC HSTs on their last day of operation.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Put the police on the trains in front of the FS, when they are forced to stop because of trespassers then they can jump down and apprehend the offenders after the driver has put an REC in and signallers have declared the line safe, the officers travelling aboard don't need to be seen by the trespassers until then as the driver can have given fair warning of the consequences of the trespass. So driver said "get over the other side of the fence" and when ignored or challenged they are backed up by BTP. Can't really complain about that when you get nicked!

That would be a good use of Pacers from January. Just need to fit the blue flashers and sirens!

 

[bramling]

I was mocking some of the more extreme responses from earlier, and have thclearly butdont actually erethink FS should be banned from the North. However have there been any incidents in Scotland or the South?

There was certainly some trespass when FS was on the south end of the ECML a couple of years back. St Neots springs to mind, which IIRC resulted in some delays to other services.