More dangerous lineside behaviour around Flying Scotsman

[ChiefPlanner]

There was certainly some trespass when FS was on the south end of the ECML a couple of years back. St Neots springs to mind, which IIRC resulted in some delays to other services.

Also bad trespass on the south ECML when "Tornado" did the first run into Kings Cross one very cold and snowy Saturday morning. About 25 late.

 

[Stampy]

There was certainly some trespass when FS was on the south end of the ECML a couple of years back. St Neots springs to mind, which IIRC resulted in some delays to other services.

Yep, remember it well - as a few of us from work wanted to see it pass us near Werrington Junction, just North of Peterborough

We'd spotted the BTP van near the access gate and a Rail Worker talking to him when we walked over and asked politely if we could "stand here near the gate and watch FS go past"..

BTP & Rail Worker agreed, and we were stood there when one of our "friendly" spotters came barging past us and set his equipment up about 2 feet away from the slow line from Lincoln/Spalding.

BTP went over and asked him to move back - and they got a torrent of abuse as FS came "tooting" around the corner.

Spotter fired off a few shots before BTP grabbed hold of his equipment and dragged it away - to howls of complaints from him.

Meanwhile, WE hadn't moved and got a few pics for the memory of FS going past from at least 50 feet away from the running lines.

 

[Aictos]

Yep, remember it well - as a few of us from work wanted to see it pass us near Werrington Junction, just North of Peterborough

We'd spotted the BTP van near the access gate and a Rail Worker talking to him when we walked over and asked politely if we could "stand here near the gate and watch FS go past"..

BTP & Rail Worker agreed, and we were stood there when one of our "friendly" spotters came barging past us and set his equipment up about 2 feet away from the slow line from Lincoln/Spalding.

BTP went over and asked him to move back - and they got a torrent of abuse as FS came "tooting" around the corner.

Spotter fired off a few shots before BTP grabbed hold of his equipment and dragged it away - to howls of complaints from him.

Meanwhile, WE hadn't moved and got a few pics for the memory of FS going past from at least 50 feet away from the running lines.

Proof that you don’t need to be within 2ft of the loco to take a photo, if only the idiots who trespass or get too close to the lineside take note...

 

[jonesy3001]

Happening again this time with tornado, idiots on the track at todmorden were the cam is on railcam UK

 

[Meerkat]

Whilst I understand your frustration there’s no point in fining individuals huge amounts of money that they simply don’t have. They just don’t get paid.

They have to pay what they have though. More importantly big fines make big headlines

 

[Spartacus]

Happening again this time with tornado, idiots on the track at todmorden were the cam is on railcam UK

Couple at Elland where apparently the MOM ruined things for them and two more on the ECML. I was surprised how many there were out for it.

 

[Aictos]

Flying Scotsman is on the MML this week coming, expect lots of delays!

 

[robbeech]

So basically, it comes down to the few ruining it for the many.
I personally don't care for kettles, but, don't see why others should not get their enjoyment from them, as long as they abide by the the rules/bylaws/statutory laws.
I personally make myself known at a station I am spotting at, I am prepared to purchase a platform ticket if they are sold. If a member of staff asks me to stay behind the yellow line I will do so. I do NOT want my actions to have an effect on myself or someone else in terms of the enjoyment of OUR hobby. I certainly do NOT want to cause an adverse affect on someone earning their living if they are employed by the railway.
Personally I think the law should be changed, so that if people are caught trespassing they should either be made to pay 25% of the delay compensation or £1000 pounds, which ever is the the greater value. That would soon stop them, possibly?

There are not going to be delays with a value lower than this. I’m all for large fines but realistically, a delay of a few minutes can be well into 5 figures. The weekends delays will be well into 7.

 

[Alanko]

Flying Scotsman ran from Edinburgh Waverley to Inverness today but notably there were no reports of trespass in connection with this at all.

I went to Waverley yesterday to try and snap some shots. 'Try' being the operative word! There is a definite 'Flying Scotsman Effect' in action, with a sort of talismanic energy following Pegler's Folly around. A big crowd, with a mix of ages. Some hardcore spotters in there as well, if my olfactory receptors are to be trusted.

There were quite a few Polis there to keep us in order. They were speaking to people, but everything seemed to be agreeable. Probably an easy gig for them.

A big crowd, of which only a small percentage then got onto the train. By contrast there is no 'Mayflower Effect'... perhaps it is the lurid green that keep people away?

It might be worth noting, these were taken with an iPhone 8 (Mayflower was shot with the phone held over my head). You don't get the best photos by being so close to these engines. I don't see why people would trespass to get any closer to them, as it must result in lesser photographs, right? Some of the best photographs I've seen of this pair have been shot at a distance with some scenery in shot. You get a better feel for these engines carving up the countryside if you can see what they are doing, rather than being able to see every rivet in eye-popping detail, in my opinion.

 

[tsr]

I've seen Mayflower attract considerable attention at several of the ECML stations (in fact, I was on a train which ran just ahead of it a few years ago!).

However - as someone who has little interest in steam compared to a lot of other aspects of the railway - I do find Flying Scotsman to be somewhat easier on the eye, and not just because of the colour schemes! There's something quite rudimentary and almost a little unkempt about the aesthetics of Mayflower.

 

[Alanko]

There's something quite rudimentary and almost a little unkempt about the aesthetics of Mayflower.

Apparently things aren't much better in the cab (I've spoken to somebody who has been in the cab of the other B1). The cab itself looks a bit more rudimentary.

Glad to hear that Mayflower was picking up attention elsewhere. You would expect some interest up here as it was built in Glasgow! With the right media coverage you could tease out that sort of detail.

My thought around the Scotsman hype is that all hype tends to tail off at some point.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Funnily enough, I went to see FS in Southampton in 2016. I managed to see it pass from about 5ft, but I was standing behind the chain-link fence in the car park.

 

[Spartacus]

Apparently things aren't much better in the cab (I've spoken to somebody who has been in the cab of the other B1). The cab itself looks a bit more rudimentary.

Glad to hear that Mayflower was picking up attention elsewhere. You would expect some interest up here as it was built in Glasgow! With the right media coverage you could tease out that sort of detail.

My thought around the Scotsman hype is that all hype tends to tail off at some point.

Given when the B1 was designed I think it’s remarkable it ended up looking as good as it did, former LNER man Bulleid produced the Q1 in the same year.

 

[johnnychips]

Just to stick up for ‘The North’, I did post many moons ago that there were no issues at all between Doncaster and Sheffield on ‘that fateful day’. Can’t speak about what happened between York and Donny, or Sheffield and Chesterfield (where I presume ‘The Midlands’ start).

 

[Killingworth]

At least it seems the Mad Hatter hasn't been too troubled today, making up 10 out of 11 minutes deficit between Chinley North and Sheffield. Came through Dore at a goodly speed, probably near the 50 limit;

Nice to see LNER Pacifics twice in a week here in Sheffield. Brought back happy memories of spotting at Newcastle Central in the late 1950s. I never went off platform or an over bridge to spot but most of my more avid spotting friends did, usually around an MPD if an opportunity arose. I'm afraid a lot of grandfathers may be encouraging their young friends to do what they did.

 

[theking]

Deleted.

 

[jagardner1984]

I’m not sure why the hesitation here.

The article clearly photographs with evidence two photographers.

Surely an example should be made.

1. Lifetime ban from the National Rail Network and all rail property.
2. Issue reward leading to their arrest (they are clearly identifiable and have committed a crime.)
3. Legislate to match the fine for the crime to the damage this causes to the network.

Serious consequences rather than the £1000 might provide some food for thought to the people considering such selfish behaviour.

 

[TPO]

I get the impression that you really don't understand the sheer numbers of people involved. It's not a couple of trespassers at only one location during the journey, it's a couple of idiots like those pictured above at one point, then a group like those videoed at the next bridge, a couple more climbing the fence in the field after that, a family or two messing around at the next footpath crossing and so on and so on for the whole trip - and that's ignoring the people who aren't doing anything wrong but who's behaviour suggests that they should be gently watched in case, in their ignorance, they do put themselves at risk.

You do realise that in much of the country BTP struggle to round up the half-a-dozen officers to police a football train, don't you? There's absolutely no way they could pull together enough officers to arrest the number of people trespassing when Scotsman is around, even if those people docilely cooperated with being arrested. And every arrest means the arresting officer gets to take that arrested person to the nearest police station with a custody suite, which then means there one fewer police officer for the rest of the journey...
The local police are no better off; they'll often have fewer than half-a-dozen effectives at any one time across an entire division, so it's not as if they can call up a few van-loads to assist BTP.

Totally.

There's also the bit that's not been mentioned yet. Of a Driver having to come to a stand in a particular place along the route due to person (enthusiast/photter) in the 4-foot. This Driver helped by a coleague managed to "coax" the person clear of the railway, however multiple servies were stopped in rear.

I suspect that's why the BTP have taken such a strong line on this particular incident- it's not just the delay caused. In slightly different circumstances this thread would be about the enthusiast who was hit by a train and killed trying to take a photograph of a kettle.

I've spent enough time working on or near the line under Lookout protection (so experience of just how little "noise" or other warning you get of approaching modern trains) to shudder at the thought of the incident.

TPO

 

[Ex31Rigger]

Whilst I understand your frustration there’s no point in fining individuals huge amounts of money that they simply don’t have. They just don’t get paid.

OK, if a fine won't do it, confiscate their photographic/video equipment. Probably hit them a lot harder and drive the point home.

 

[Cowley]

OK, if a fine won't do it, confiscate their photographic/video equipment. Probably hit them a lot harder and drive the point home.

That seems like an obvious way to start dealing with it to me too.
The evidence that they were trespassing will be on their equipment and it’ll be the same with mobile phones too.

 

[Mathew S]

OK, if a fine won't do it, confiscate their photographic/video equipment.

I'm not sure what law exactly you would use to confiscate a camera etc. Courts can't just confiscate property because they think it's a good idea. The equipment isn't a "proceed of crime" nor was it used in the commission of an offence (the offence being trespassing, not taking photos whilst trespassing).

Powers exist to serve people with notice requiring them not to access railway property other than for the purpose of travelling. Wider use of these powers, with appropriate enforcement if such formal requests are not abided by, would seem a proportionate response to me.

 

[Dore & Totley]

Just to stick up for ‘The North’, I did post many moons ago that there were no issues at all between Doncaster and Sheffield on ‘that fateful day’. Can’t speak about what happened between York and Donny, or Sheffield and Chesterfield (where I presume ‘The Midlands’ start).

I was at Chesterfield waiting for my delayed train to Lindon due to the broken rail. Pleased to say platform 3 was heaving and everybody seemed well behaved. FS stopped there for a while before setting off. When my train left Chesterfield we were held up by the FS but I did not see any line side trespassing.

 

[bobbyrail]

I'm not sure what law exactly you would use to confiscate a camera etc. Courts can't just confiscate property because they think it's a good idea. The equipment isn't a "proceed of crime" nor was it used in the commission of an offence (the offence being trespassing, not taking photos whilst trespassing).

Powers exist to serve people with notice requiring them not to access railway property other than for the purpose of travelling. Wider use of these powers, with appropriate enforcement if such formal requests are not abided by, would seem a proportionate response to me.

Presume it would be similar to the powers local authority's have for confiscating audio equipment at all night parties, environmental health departments just need to give you a warning and tell you that the noise level must not be excessive within a time frame (normally the rest of the night), fail to adhere and they come back with the police and take your boom box away.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I've seen Mayflower attract considerable attention at several of the ECML stations (in fact, I was on a train which ran just ahead of it a few years ago!).

However - as someone who has little interest in steam compared to a lot of other aspects of the railway - I do find Flying Scotsman to be somewhat easier on the eye, and not just because of the colour schemes! There's something quite rudimentary and almost a little unkempt about the aesthetics of Mayflower.

I was down at Clachnaharry to watch Mayflower come in last night and a good crowd of people there to see it and there was a police vehicle in attendance.

I was amused to see someone posting a video of the 'flying scotsman' that morning given I thought only Mayflower was running, sure enough it was a video of Mayflower. I'm not that fussed about steam either and don't mind which steam engine it is, just interesting to see some of the bigger ones on the go.

 

[Mathew S]

Presume it would be similar to the powers local authority's have for confiscating audio equipment at all night parties, environmental health departments just need to give you a warning and tell you that the noise level must not be excessive within a time frame (normally the rest of the night), fail to adhere and they come back with the police and take your boom box away.

That's a specific power though. Others will know more about the legals than I do, but parliament has plenty to do without legislating to confiscate spotters cameras.

 

[tsr]

I was down at Clachnaharry to watch Mayflower come in last night and a good crowd of people there to see it and there was a police vehicle in attendance.

Yes, I've seen BTP attend for Mayflower as well. Indeed, on the occasion I mentioned above, there were several bemused officers who appeared to have been specifically deployed to the platform ends at York.

I was amused to see someone posting a video of the 'flying scotsman' that morning given I thought only Mayflower was running, sure enough it was a video of Mayflower.

I'm not that fussed about steam either and don't mind which steam engine it is, just interesting to see some of the bigger ones on the go.

Well, quite. I usually enjoy it more for the general photographic opportunity rather than spotting / seeing any specific loco. It's certainly possible to take a decent shot without the locomotive even being identifiable (think silhouettes of steam etc.).

 

[Peter C]

Whilst we're on the subject of the BTP and which engines they "follow", for want of a better word, I went to see 7029 Clun Castle (an excellent engine - GWR design!) at Moreton-in-Marsh a while ago and the platforms were fairly full. However, the BTP weren't present, which shows just how popular Flying Scotsman is; they're not prepared to spend their time going to stations for any steam engine; they're only going to go to stations where the Flying Scotsman is present. And I'd like to think that the BTP known what they are doing.

-Peter

 

[MotCO]

This isn't the only problem of course - the lack of controlled emission toilets is another threat.

Maybe that's the answer - let the tanks discharge themselves near the photographers

 

[modernrail]

Would anybody on here care to admit to having committed trespass to take photos of the Scotsman?

The mind boggles. This is a working railway that, no matter what it's faults, works hard to be safe. It's funny how a certain quantity of the population seem to be determined to be as childish, selfish and belligerent as possible at the moment. To not move once you are told to by the driver of an actual train on an a live railway, never mind being there in the first place, is absolutely astonishing. Get a bloody grip and go and find a bridge. Personally I think they should cancel the Scotsman if any more incidents happen and yes that is a case of the few ruining it for the many. That is life and if people can't behave themselves and consider others, that is what happens. Busy railway workers and fare paying passengers do not have time to deal with and should not have to deal with this stupidity.

 

[DarloRich]

It is clear many posters have no idea why members of the public are so attracted to FS.