GWR Class 800

[deltic08]

True Inter City? You make me laugh! Trains are to carry passengers and the majority of boarders at Reading have changed trains so don't come from Reading. Yesterday I was a pure bread intercity passenger travelling west, boarding at Reading after a change.

The train was so hot you arrived as toast!

 

[43096]

Ahh OK we are getting somewhere!

I am a Thames Valley traveller, not commuter.

At peak times, I use a Thames Valley fast service to London and do not change at Reading, as it is only slightly slower and I get a seat. 12-car 387s are interesting in short platforms! Off peak times, I always change at Reading as the onward journey is very slow (although this should change with Crossrail) and the Inter-City services are lightly loaded at the down end.

Coming back I go for the first fast train and do as 99% of travellers to get to Reading without reading the boards. GWR will have serious issues with non-stoppers because of this! Off peak I get a coach to myself, peak times I jump on last minute & stand. Hell, why would me standing for 20 mins in the vestibule destroy a 1-2 hour journey for someone? I can then catch my local train. I would catch the Thames Valley direct fast, but they are seriously loaded, worse than Inter-Cities, which is why some are 12-cars and you get the walk of shame at Maidenhead getting out of the rear 4-car unit!

Travelling west, I go up to Reading to change as too few trains stop at Didcot. Remove those Reading calls and I would just drive and GWR know that.

All these complaints I read on here about train formations are a bit ridiculous and written by distant train 'experts'. GWR seem to be masters of sizing trains for demand, well learnt a few years back.

So what other 'local' fast journeys would you ban? Crewe - Liverpool?, York-Newcastle? Preston - Lancaster? Come on, trains are to move people and not to create a privileged long traveller class!

Ian Walmsley made mention in Modern Railways of XC between Bristol TM and Bristol Parkway where commuters reserve seats which then prevents long distance travellers getting reservations (and potentially cheaper tickets). That is clearly an utter nonsense.

 

[59CosG95]

Ian Walmsley made mention in Modern Railways of XC between Bristol TM and Bristol Parkway where commuters reserve seats which then prevents long distance travellers getting reservations (and potentially cheaper tickets). That is clearly an utter nonsense.

Of course, the new Paddington - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads services should help dissipate some of the passengers between those stations, although ideally GWR & XC should work together and make it impossible to reserve seats for journeys starting and ending at those two stations (in such a way that you can reserve to destinations beyond them, but just not end-to-end at those two).

 

[reddragon]

Of course, the new Paddington - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads services should help dissipate some of the passengers between those stations, although ideally GWR & XC should work together and make it impossible to reserve seats for journeys starting and ending at those two stations (in such a way that you can reserve to destinations beyond them, but just not end-to-end at those two).

Now that's a good example, as should be the case for fast Reading to Paddington services unless booked west of Reading already, so free.

I invariably sit in someones reserved seat due to no shows, so a very valid point.

 

[jimm]

Where to begin?

Yes, the mix of 5 & 9-car units is baffling at times, but blame FGW's legacy of the Adelantes for that, and NR's reluctance to make every single station on the GWR IC network 9-car compatible.

Why should anyone "blame FGW's legacy of the Adelantes" for anything?

There are plenty of GWR services where the 180s - and five-car 800s now - are just what is needed for the job and are a whole lot better than three-car Turbos which have been - or are about to be in the case of Bedwyn - supplanted by five-car 800s. All duties where eight-car HSTs, never mind any long IET formation, were/are complete overkill in terms of passenger capacity. Without the five-car sets, there probably would not be hourly London-Gloucester/Cheltenham services on the way either.

Cotswold Line and Stroud Valley route stations have had platform extensions to take most of them up to the seven/eight-car range, which are about to be brought into service.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us that the fact that this has not been done in Cornwall is yet another example of GWR and Network Rail's hatred of the county, despite GWR preparing to start an all-day two trains per hour frequency between Plymouth and Penzance and Network Rail having spent the money to improve the signalling through Cornwall to allow the extra services to run.

Of course, the new Paddington - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads services should help dissipate some of the passengers between those stations, although ideally GWR & XC should work together and make it impossible to reserve seats for journeys starting and ending at those two stations (in such a way that you can reserve to destinations beyond them, but just not end-to-end at those two).

Why should this be needed? The new GWR Paddington-Bristol Parkway-Temple Meads limited-stop services are all going to run off-peak, not in the peaks, so there won't be any commuters to worry about.

 

[43096]

Cotswold Line and Stroud Valley route stations have had platform extensions to take most of them up to the seven/eight-car range, which are about to be brought into service.

Pointless exercise of the year award: lengthening platforms to 7/8 car length in a world of 5, 9 and 10 car trains. Before you say “ASDO” in your usual patronising way, if platforms are being lengthened do it to the maximum train length as it’ll cost less now than doing it again in the future. ASDO should be for locations where there are significant constraints, not as a get out for not doing the job properly in the first place.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Off peak times, I always change at Reading as the onward journey is very slow (although this should change with Crossrail)

Is an all stations Crossrail train going to be that much faster than the current service? I think there's a suggestion that GWR will run two off peak trains an hour with only limited stops, so just Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, West Drayton, Hayes, Ealing.

 

[irish_rail]

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us that the fact that this has not been done in Cornwall is yet another example of GWR and Network Rail's hatred of the county, despite GWR preparing to start an all-day two trains per hour frequency between Plymouth and Penzance and Network Rail having spent the money to improve the signalling through Cornwall to allow the extra services to run.



Why should this be needed? The new GWR Paddington-Bristol Parkway-Temple Meads limited-stop services are all going to run off-peak, not in the peaks, so there won't be any commuters to worry about.

No jimm, passengers will continue to be over carried and miss their stations in Cornwall by being in the wrong part of the train. We are already used to that now down here and quite resigned to the fact . It's a daily occurrence.

 

[387star]

Spot on. Running two 5 car trains(coupling and uncoupling) is absolutely stupid on a major GWR Inter-City route. Cue all the people to say "Its not economical running ten cars deep into Cornwall" but as you have quite rightly pointed out, the extra staff overheads plus the "Guess where your coach is?" When a ten car turns up is annoying and not viable, plus add in the delay when the coupling goes wrong. The IEP should have specified ONE fleet of uniformed length 800's (9 or 10 car) for long distance services to Plymouth/Penzance/Swansea/Bristol/Cotswolds etc and a separate fleet of smaller trains for Bedwyn/Oxford - that is common sense. I HATE travelling on a ten car IEP (especially if Im going 1st class) as you never know where first class is going to be, station boards often get it wrong so you end up having to run down the platform, which is dangerous, plus in the trailer First Class the seating is too low to the window and in the composite you have the engine noise and vibration plus the world and his dog walking through first class in the composite coach at every station to get in/out of standard, which hardly promotes "First Class" tranquility and a relaxed environment. I fear these trains will see a lot of customers leave the railways for long distance in favour of flights and coaches, it is already happening in South Wales as a few on-board GWR staff have mentioned regular 1st class business customers are leaving in droves, citing the poor value for money of 1st on these wreched trains. I sincerely hope the open access operator who has applied to operate hourly services between Cardiff and Paddington using a 91 and a rake of Mk 4's gets the go-ahead, as I and Im sure many others will use that service over a GWR 800 any day of the week.

No people are waking up to climate change and trains are seeing a renaissance

Planes are awful. I'm on one now stuck going nowhere due to issues at Gatwick. Least in a train you have better ventilation 158s 166s aside and can walk around not to mention the tiresome security checks

 

[PHILIPE]

Can we, with respect, start discussing GWR 800s again, please. It makes it very difficult to refer back to something when the thread has post after post of off thread items.

 

[cactustwirly]

The station and its approaches were remodelled to eliminate congestion and allow high speed running through it. I'm sure GWR (and possibly NR?) will have modelled the new TT to ensure its robust.

Yes, it's a lot better than it was, but the mainlines are very congested in the peak times, if one train is late, and blocks up 8/9 then the non stop service will be held up.

 

[w1bbl3]

Pointless exercise of the year award: lengthening platforms to 7/8 car length in a world of 5, 9 and 10 car trains. Before you say “ASDO” in your usual patronising way, if platforms are being lengthened do it to the maximum train length as it’ll cost less now than doing it again in the future. ASDO should be for locations where there are significant constraints, not as a get out for not doing the job properly in the first place.

Some of the stations that have received lengthened platforms are now the maximum length possible, so in world where everything should have been lengthened to ten are you suggesting that any stations where this wouldn't be possible should no longer see a IC service? This would see stonehouse and kemble on golden valley route not be served anymore for example.
7/8 does at least allow double 800 to have doors opened in both sets avoiding the over carrying / wrong set problem which is happening in west where lengthening hasn't happened.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So I'm on one at the moment (glutton for punishment) with the new style moquette seats. Apart from looking nicer, these, unlike the originals, have a metal or plastic base (can't quite tell which) under the cushion which I would expect to solve the "bar" issue and so remove most of my objections.

Will others receive this mod, and do the LNER sets have it? How about TPE?

Picture attached (sorry it's rubbish, taking a picture under the seat is difficult!)

 

[404250]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but having Zone numbers instead of saying which coach and how many the train has in total isn't any extra help for passengers and must have been a lot of work and expense to implement.

 

[jimm]

Pointless exercise of the year award: lengthening platforms to 7/8 car length in a world of 5, 9 and 10 car trains. Before you say “ASDO” in your usual patronising way, if platforms are being lengthened do it to the maximum train length as it’ll cost less now than doing it again in the future. ASDO should be for locations where there are significant constraints, not as a get out for not doing the job properly in the first place.

w1bbl3 Pretty much said all that needs to be said on this subject - you clearly have zero idea of the physical and/or operational constraints at most of the stations along the Cotswold Line, meaning longer platforms were not an option without hugely increasing the budget and spending lots of extra money right here, right now, for precious extra little benefit.

People have somehow coped with walking up half (or more) the length of HSTs for 35 years, I'm sure walking half that distance won't prove too taxing in the future. A future in which I doubt anyone will be planning to spend another penny on platforms on the Cotswold Line - why would they when something like two-thirds of services will be five-car IETs?

No jimm, passengers will continue to be over carried and miss their stations in Cornwall by being in the wrong part of the train. We are already used to that now down here and quite resigned to the fact . It's a daily occurrence.

Aren't they all going to be crammed into five-car trains in future? That's what you keep telling us... so no chance of being over-carried.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On another moquette fitted one and can't feel the metal bar.

 

[Pete_uk]

Has this 800 been modified? I'm not sure if those angled bits were always above the connectors??

 

[Bletchleyite]

While I have no intention of doing so as I have no wish to die, as a climber that would be no barrier at all to me getting up there.

FWIW, I do feel very close to 25kV while standing on the platform next to one - I doubt I could actually reach it, but Pendolinos have fairings around things despite having the same kit in roughly the same place.

A way to solve it would be LU-style fabric between the coaches.

 

[deltic08]

While I have no intention of doing so as I have no wish to die, as a climber that would be no barrier at all to me getting up there.

FWIW, I do feel very close to 25kV while standing on the platform next to one - I doubt I could actually reach it, but Pendolinos have fairings around things despite having the same kit in roughly the same place.

A way to solve it would be LU-style fabric between the coaches.

Just make the loops longer so they hang lower.

 

[Japan0913]

Has this 800 been modified? I'm not sure if those angled bits were always above the connectors??

http://n700.jp/know/05.html
When riding, please pay attention to the space between the vehicles. You should notice the white holo connecting the vehicles smoothly. By making the whole vehicle body a smooth shape including this "all around holo" and the connection part, not only the air resistance but also the noise in the deck has been greatly reduced. As a result, it also contributes to energy saving. It was a small and big invention of the Shinkansen N700 series.

 

[Master29]

A way to solve it would be LU-style fabric between the coaches.

Do you mean like on the S7 and S8 stock as I presume by LU you mean London Underground? That is an excellent suggestion if so.

 

[The Ham]

(Unless I missed the memo that Saltash, Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel, Par, St Austell, Redruth, Camborne and St Erth now all have cathedrals and City Status)

Yes you missed the memo:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-98213293

The Church of England has announced a a major project of building cathedrals in Cornwall following the latest round of places gaining city status.

A spokesman for the church said "it had long been our goal to increase the number of cathedrals in the country to cater for the growing population and are pleased to announce the start of this plan in the South West which is often overlooked by national bodies when starting something new."

However the announcement hasn't been welcomed by all, with many residents of places like Guildford and Reading left fuming after being overlooked yet again.

Spoiler: further information

Of course this is all fictional

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you mean like on the S7 and S8 stock as I presume by LU you mean London Underground? That is an excellent suggestion if so.

Yes, or the other Japanese stock above.

 

[jimm]

Not been up that line for ages. No desire to, either, if the people are as rude, objectionable and arrogant as you. Still, at least you don't disappoint.

That's a bit rich considering some of the things people have had to say about some of your posts on this forum - and I don't mean me.

And considering that you clearly knew nothing about the various local factors influencing the length of Cotswold Line platform extensions but weren't going to let that worry you when it came to lecturing the world on the topic.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are the good 800001 and 800002 ever going to grace us with their presence? It feels like they’re gon’ be out of service forever! Also, why can GWR 800s and 802s not work in passenger service together when LNER 800s and 801s can? Little strange.

 

[Reliablebeam]

There's certainly some interesting discussion on this thread about grievances of varying levels of severity as regards the IET (seats, catering....) but if I may be so bold, I'm not sure how much sleep GWR or DAFT management will be losing about them. The reality is the GWR line is a relatively captive market - you've either got the car, plane or, depending on where you join the nightmare vision of hell that is XC. I doubt a turboprop operated even a few times a day will dent the customer base that much, and as with a lot of domestic flying I imagine they will contain a lot of connecting passengers heading medium/long haul on a plane anyway. So if a few customers switch over to these transit modes, I'm not sure the powers that be will care. Maybe I'm being cynical?

But moving the topic back towards technical matters...… Surely one of the real disappointments of these trains is how much diesel operation is going on under the wires? I was amused a few weeks back when my trip across London was delayed due to Extinction Rebellion disrupting tube and DLR trains, an efficient and eco-friendly form of mass transit. Meanwhile, in GWR land, my returns to and from London in IET's, under the wires all the way -trains merrily belching diesel fumes and noise...

 

[TractiveEffort]

Are the good 800001 and 800002 ever going to grace us with their presence? It feels like they’re gon’ be out of service forever! Also, why can GWR 800s and 802s not work in passenger service together when LNER 800s and 801s can? Little strange.

800002 on refit/mods 800001 to be done after.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Has anyone else noticed that there's been an increasing number of reverse formations ever since GWR introduced these trains? That's the only problem I find.

In my opinion, unless I can be corrected, the 9-coach IET's this mostly happens with, some 10-car sets yes but not all.

If you look at the London - Bristol / South Wales GWR timetable, the 05:19 from Paddington to Swansea (looked at it just now after looking at JourneyChec) runs via Bristol Temple Meads which requires a reversal. From Swansea, it's less likely to reverse. This means at least 1 train runs the wrong way round.

This is why even if the journey is in 1 direction, CrossCountry can't guarantee direction of travel basically.

So now I know why LNER manage running trains the right way round and arrive into Newcastle from the North end (Scotland-bound trains) if reverse formed so the train can be in the correct formation.

To be honest I'm now thinking of clicking 'Don't Mind' when selecting the direction of travel for GWR services. To be honest, they should remove that option anyway. 1000 times easier than getting their trains the right way round!

I wonder if all what I've mentioned here is why the 05:19 from Paddington to Swansea now leaves at 05:02 and calls additionally at Bristol Parkway now - which also requires a reversal. Hmmm...

 

[Severn40]

Sorry folks, another grumble. Apart from the times when the loos are locked because of a lack of water, when washing your hands the water invariably ends up all over the floor? Surely it would have been possible to design a sink which keeps in the water?

 

[404250]

Sorry folks, another grumble. Apart from the times when the loos are locked because of a lack of water, when washing your hands the water invariably ends up all over the floor? Surely it would have been possible to design a sink which keeps in the water?

And the dryer is far too weak.