West Lothian buses

[overthewater]

And phase 7&8

I hope they do something with the network and we get a decent one out of it, because if LCB doesn't buck up its ideas instead of relaying on hated for first to nick passengers it will not end well, especially if First starts taking lots of money of the tours.

It's clear Lothian has has money to burn why waste buying brand new coaches to do nothing with them, there still to hit the road...

 

[OmniCity999]

Actually yes, the 6 speed ZF means the engine is straining less while traveling at speed. That being said I wouldn't want to sit on a early Euro3 B7RLE for 2 hours full stop!

These B7TLs have exhaust modifications, these were the ones ones branded with "get there greener" they are to euro 5 standard economically.

Then why mention it?

Because I can? I dont need your approval to say what I did do I?

The older Lothian single deck fleet is to see an upgrade between this year and next. As Lothian country is a part of Lothian, they are included. I'm able to tell you that, what I'm not allowed to say is what with. If that's an issue, then that's a real shame.

Working for the company, I'm able to discuss many topics, but certain things have to be kept under wraps.

 

[Jordan Adam]

These B7TLs have exhaust modifications, these were the ones ones branded with "get there greener" they are to euro 5 standard economically.

By "Euro 3 B7RLE" i'm referring to those with the D7C engine, rather than those with the later D7E. I'm aware it's not Euro 3, and i just said "Euro 3 B7RLE" because it's how most people differentiate the D7C examples, although really i should have said "D7C B7RLE" instead.

Regardless my point still stands. I wouldn't want to sit on a 15 year old Voith "D7C B7RLE" for two hours. The Ex-Arriva examples are undoubtedly more suited to the country work, however even then i'd question their age given the "hoo haa" that's been made about the new X17. As you say they're a stop gap so it will be interesting to see if that ends up being the case and what replaces them, i'm sure all will be announced by the relevant sources in time.

 

[Train368]

When does driver training on the new coaches start?

 

[CM]

Because I can? I dont need your approval to say what I did do I?

The older Lothian single deck fleet is to see an upgrade between this year and next. As Lothian country is a part of Lothian, they are included. I'm able to tell you that, what I'm not allowed to say is what with. If that's an issue, then that's a real shame.

Working for the company, I'm able to discuss many topics, but certain things have to be kept under wraps.

Approval? Obivously you don't need my "approval" and I wasn't implying that at all. What I was getting at was people who bring up a subject but then wont elaborate because something has to be kept "secret". If you can't elaborate so that people can have a discussion about it then why waste your own time bringing the subject in the first place?! It's not as if it's state secrets!

I fail to see why bus enthusiasts are so determined to keep things secret that probably don't need to be because at the end of the day, people are going to find out at some point anyway......

 

[In Focus]

I fail to see why bus enthusiasts are so determined to keep things secret that probably don't need to be because at the end of the day, people are going to find out at some point

Has it never crossed your mind that some are maybe more than just "enthusiasts" and as has been said by some who are employed in the industry it's a need to be prudent with some of the information shared on here for various reasons.
Of course you're correct it shall be public knowledge soon enough but maybe it's not for some to divulge every piece of information prior to that time .

 

[CM]

Has it never crossed your mind that some are maybe more than just "enthusiasts" and as has been said by some who are employed in the industry it's a need to be prudent with some of the information shared on here for various reasons.
Of course you're correct it shall be public knowledge soon enough but maybe it's not for some to divulge every piece of information prior to that time .

Err, yes, I do know some people are more than just enthusiasts and actually work in the industry and I'm not asking for people to divulge every tiny bit of information as some information, of course, can be sensitive(ie: driver details, duty boards, financial info etc...) But I really don't see why buses being re-furbed/repainted or a new buses being ordered always seem to be treated like it was state secrets, it's hardly going to be a secret when the sodding thing is trundling down the road infront of a city full of people!

 

[overthewater]

I don't know why Lothian are worried with First at the moment: First still hasn't told anyone properly there are service changes in West Lothian Let along singing about improved 600.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I don't know why Lothian are worried with First at the moment: First still hasn't told anyone properly there are service changes in West Lothian Let along singing about improved 600.

Andrew Jarvis tweeted though...

Before anyone comes at my i'm being sarcastic...

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I shall take an guess that the current B7RLE 04 plates are a stop gap for Enviro200 MMC. I am sure they put an order in or were looking at doing so. I also wonder if Lothian will order BYD K9 with Enviro200 MMC body, although if they did I can't see it being for LCB.

 

[overthewater]

How about using the stock it already has before its buy more stuff to have sitting around in the depots?

 

[OmniCity999]

I shall take an guess that the current B7RLE 04 plates are a stop gap for Enviro200 MMC. I am sure they put an order in or were looking at doing so. I also wonder if Lothian will order BYD K9 with Enviro200 MMC body, although if they did I can't see it being for LCB.

Any future purchases will be Volvo based, Chassis/Engine at least. So Enviro 200s and those BYD things are a no. Of course a Volvo Based ADL single decker may be in the works.

We are currently performing tests on B7TLs to stretch out their longevity. Electric, Hybrid and Euro 6 options are being trialled currently.

The "stuff" sitting around is doing so because its either too old (B7's) or its new and not ready for passenger service.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

How about using the stock it already has before its buy more stuff to have sitting around in the depots?

Given Lothian have 125 B7s which are Euro 3, they need to be replaced very soon anyway due to the laws coming in, so have not got a long future ahead. They also just got rid of quite a few Tridents.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Any future purchases will be Volvo based, Chassis/Engine at least. So Enviro 200s and those BYD things are a no. Of course a Volvo Based ADL single decker may be in the works.

We are currently performing tests on B7TLs to stretch out their longevity. Electric and Hybrid options are being trialled currently.

The "stuff" sitting around is doing so because its either too old (B7's) or its new and not ready for passenger service.

I can't see LB asking WrightBus to make them a single decker, so it HAS to be from ADL, volvo body but from ADL.

As for the B7s, I am pleased that this is beign tried, however some of those must be approaching time.

I think LB buying new buses is a good thing in the end as it not only means a more modern fleet but hopefully a better passanger experiance altogether.

Re the BYD, did the trial fail? I know they had one last year running on the 1 before it was sent elsewhere.

 

[OmniCity999]

I can't see LB asking WrightBus to make them a single decker, so it HAS to be from ADL, volvo body but from ADL.

As for the B7s, I am pleased that this is beign tried, however some of those must be approaching time.

I think LB buying new buses is a good thing in the end as it not only means a more modern fleet but hopefully a better passanger experiance altogether.

Re the BYD, did the trial fail? I know they had one last year running on the 1 before it was sent elsewhere.

It would be a Volvo Chassis/Engine and ADL body, not the other way round.

B7 mods have been on trials for a while.

New buses are expensive, its not the only answer. Modernising older stock with newer engines, seats and flooring gives you a product that is as near as new for a fraction of the cost.

They didnt like it, it's range was "meh", it wasnt Volvo, capacity wasnt great and options were awful.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

It would be a Volvo Chassis/Engine and ADL body, not the other way round.

B7 mods have been on trials for a while.

New buses are expensive, its not the only answer. Modernising older stock with newer engines, seats and flooring gives you a product that is as near as new for a fraction of the cost.

They didnt like it, it's range was "meh", it wasnt Volvo, capacity wasnt great and options were awful.

Thats what I meant re the Chassis/Engine. (It's been a very long day. I'm exhausted lol)

I thought the range was better on the BYD than the Streetair although not by much and bigger too. It is always good to have your input though, man in teh know lol

How much longer are Lothian wanting out of the B7s though? They are 13/14 years old.

 

[OmniCity999]

Thats what I meant re the Chassis/Engine. (It's been a very long day. I'm exhausted lol)

I thought the range was better on the BYD than the Streetair although not by much and bigger too. It is always good to have your input though, man in teh know lol

How much longer are Lothian wanting out of the B7s though? They are 13/14 years old.

If trials go well with any of the options, re engine, hybrid conversion or electric, the buses would receive an entirely new interior, new high back seats, new flooring and new plastics, the blue would go and so would the red grab poles. Also new components where required, drivers seat etc.

They would effectively be new vehicles.

 

[CM]

If trials go well with any of the options, re engine, hybrid conversion or electric, the buses would receive an entirely new interior, new high back seats, new flooring and new plastics, the blue would go and so would the red grab poles. Also new components where required, drivers seat etc.

They would effectively be new vehicles.

Sounds interesting, the 04 plated B7RLEs at Lothian have always been a firm favorite as, despite the garish blue interior, they have always seemed fairly smooth and quite quick as well. Hopefully they keep them for a few more years yet instead of buying more of those rather meh B8RLEs.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

If trials go well with any of the options, re engine, hybrid conversion or electric, the buses would receive an entirely new interior, new high back seats, new flooring and new plastics, the blue would go and so would the red grab poles. Also new components where required, drivers seat etc.

They would effectively be new vehicles.

Interesting. I always wondered about an electric decker.

I do also wonder about the next step in Lothian and LCB, if they will go for something like the Enviro400CBG City biogas. I know it's a Scania chassis not Volvo but if ADL were able to do a Volvo varient... Demo of the Scania maybe?

 

[CM]

Interesting. I always wondered about an electric decker.

I do also wonder about the next step in Lothian and LCB, if they will go for something like the Enviro400CBG City biogas. I know it's a Scania chassis not Volvo but if ADL were able to do a Volvo varient... Demo of the Scania maybe?

That would rely on Volvo building a gas powered version of either the B5TL or B5LH which I doubt they'd do as I belive their main focus now is on hybrids and fully electric vehicles.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Yeah, although if sales are good with the Scania, they might just do it. Hydrogen too is a possibility. However, it's all guessing really. Who knows what Volvo have in the pipeline or that.

 

[OmniCity999]

Sounds interesting, the 04 plated B7RLEs at Lothian have always been a firm favorite as, despite the garish blue interior, they have always seemed fairly smooth and quite quick as well. Hopefully they keep them for a few more years yet instead of buying more of those rather meh B8RLEs.

My comments relating to refurbishment (hybrid, re engine or electric) relate to B7TL's. Gemini's, double decks. The B7RLEs are single deckers.

Hydrogen is a great idea, but it's the set up costs that are the issue, you really need to buy a lot of buses to outweigh the cost.

We have 7 depots now including ECB, LB, LMC and LCB. The cost would be astronomical as for fleet movements and day to day last minute change overs, we'd need Hydrogen facilities at every depot just in case. It's often the case that a Longetone bus will cover a Marine or even a Livingston bus. After this situation occurs the vehicle goes back to the non native garage to be refuelled and cleaned.

Every depot would need hydrogen supply and training for staff, of which is a large cost and would only be outweighed if each depot got hydrogen vehicles. So the initial purchase would need to be vast.

Lothian need that flexibility. But hydrogen just isnt there and as above, isn't available on a Volvo Chassis as yet I dont think.

 

[Tom B]

We have 7 depots now including ECB, LB, LMC and LCB. The cost would be astronomical as for fleet movements and day to day last minute change overs, we'd need Hydrogen facilities at every depot just in case. It's often the case that a Longetone bus will cover a Marine or even a Livingston bus. After this situation occurs the vehicle goes back to the non native garage to be refuelled and cleaned.

Every depot would need hydrogen supply and training for staff, of which is a large cost and would only be outweighed if each depot got hydrogen vehicles. So the initial purchase would need to be vast.

Lothian need that flexibility. But hydrogen just isnt there and as above, isn't available on a Volvo Chassis as yet I dont think.

It is worthy of note that LRT do actually care about that sort of flexibility. I've been on London buses which have broken down outside a depot, but a changeover was supposedly impossible since the depot was not the one the original bus was from!

I recall occasions in Edinburgh such as rugby, festival or indeed MUDFA when they would juggle buses around to try and provide some semblance of a service. Are (say) Central drivers trained on Longstone routes such as 25s/33/7s routinely?

 

[In Focus]

Err, yes,

Thank God for that!

 

[CM]

My comments relating to refurbishment (hybrid, re engine or electric) relate to B7TL's. Gemini's, double decks. The B7RLEs are single deckers.

Hydrogen is a great idea, but it's the set up costs that are the issue, you really need to buy a lot of buses to outweigh the cost.

We have 7 depots now including ECB, LB, LMC and LCB. The cost would be astronomical as for fleet movements and day to day last minute change overs, we'd need Hydrogen facilities at every depot just in case. It's often the case that a Longetone bus will cover a Marine or even a Livingston bus. After this situation occurs the vehicle goes back to the non native garage to be refuelled and cleaned.

Every depot would need hydrogen supply and training for staff, of which is a large cost and would only be outweighed if each depot got hydrogen vehicles. So the initial purchase would need to be vast.

Lothian need that flexibility. But hydrogen just isnt there and as above, isn't available on a Volvo Chassis as yet I dont think.

However you stated in a post that B7TLs wore "Get there Greener..." branding, which they didn't, it was the B7RLEs. AFAIK none of the B7TL have ever wore such branding and have never had the appropriate modifications, hence why I stated B7RLEs.

 

[OmniCity999]

However you stated in a post that B7TLs wore "Get there Greener..." branding, which they didn't, it was the B7RLEs. AFAIK none of the B7TL have ever wore such branding and have never had the appropriate modifications, hence why I stated B7RLEs.

Honest mistake - apologies.

I remember writing that and thinking the word B7RLE but wrote the word B7TL.

Age getting the better of me there..

It is worthy of note that LRT do actually care about that sort of flexibility. I've been on London buses which have broken down outside a depot, but a changeover was supposedly impossible since the depot was not the one the original bus was from!

I recall occasions in Edinburgh such as rugby, festival or indeed MUDFA when they would juggle buses around to try and provide some semblance of a service. Are (say) Central drivers trained on Longstone routes such as 25s/33/7s routinely?

The MUDFA programme was fantastic, strategically placed vehicles around the city, one from each depot with drivers that knew the majority of routes.

Believe the case is now that Central has an on-call member of staff in the depot, wether that be office staff, or a gateman who can be sent out instead of a MUDFA.

The majority of the office staff hold the relevant licenses / CPC and are often used on service work. Believe Mr Hall has even taken part in rugby specials.

 

[Driver362]

By "Euro 3 B7RLE" i'm referring to those with the D7C engine, rather than those with the later D7E. I'm aware it's not Euro 3, and i just said "Euro 3 B7RLE" because it's how most people differentiate the D7C examples, although really i should have said "D7C B7RLE" instead.

Regardless my point still stands. I wouldn't want to sit on a 15 year old Voith "D7C B7RLE" for two hours. The Ex-Arriva examples are undoubtedly more suited to the country work, however even then i'd question their age given the "hoo haa" that's been made about the new X17. As you say they're a stop gap so it will be interesting to see if that ends up being the case and what replaces them, i'm sure all will be announced by the relevant sources in time.

But thats where your wrong jordan . The ex arriva ones are geared for motorway work and not city or semi rural work . They dont drop into top until a indicated 55mph and when they do the revs drop of a lot ,so much so that the slightest incline has them dropping down gears on the motorway. Granted i haven't driven the 04 plate B7rle's yet but my experience on the voith box'd B9 tl we have on loan from centrals lc fleet certainly doesn't do it and as such , personaly speaking from a drivers point of view its a more relaxing drive . As always views are subjective would be interested to hear the basis of your views on older B7rles with the voith box ? The bus im in about will accelarate quickly to 30mph in two shifts the zf equivalent 3 sometimes 4 shifts its bloody annoying !

 

[GusB]

Would someone care to explain what MUDFA means?

 

[Driver362]

Approval? Obivously you don't need my "approval" and I wasn't implying that at all. What I was getting at was people who bring up a subject but then wont elaborate because something has to be kept "secret". If you can't elaborate so that people can have a discussion about it then why waste your own time bringing the subject in the first place?! It's not as if it's state secrets!

I fail to see why bus enthusiasts are so determined to keep things secret that probably don't need to be because at the end of the day, people are going to find out at some point anyway......

Im not an enthusiast and i gave the same answer . We both work for lothian . At a meeting the other night with the brass for employees we were told how we had done to date where we are heading etc and any future phases imparted to us were told to keep to ourselfs . So im hardly going to come on here and spill my guts as it were . Hope this answers your question?

 

[OmniCity999]

Would someone care to explain what MUDFA means?

Multi Utilities Diversion Framework Agreement.

Long and short of it:

Buses with drivers who know the vast majority of routes positioned around the City. There was one on Regent Road, one at Haymarket and one somewhere else. It was set up when tram works were around as a way for Lothian to plug gaps in service that were created when buses had to be diverted due to the works. They system is not currently used or if it is it isnt called MUDFA any more, indeed buses arent based at the above locations, rather they run out from Central.

Give it a wee google if you need more info.