Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[yrreb]

I did notice on one of the units at Lime Street how close the emergency engine shut off is to the PTI - Quite easy for a mischievous individual to kick it and turn the engine off! I also noticed immediately that the grab poles in the wall pillars next to the doors is almost exactly the same colour as the pillar... Not ideal for someone who's visually impaired. A few days ago I hitched a ride on one rather briefly from Oxford Road to Piccadilly and located one of the very hidden bins onboard - While it appears to be one of the smallest I've ever seen on a train it's just enough if you're putting something like a bottle in there, it doesn't need to be much bigger anyway. Then there's the weird UFO buzzing noise every five minutes.

Alas, I've been on a few where I can up to now and they're brilliant units in almost every way and I'm looking forward to seeing all 101 Civitys out on Northern's network

 

[superkev]

Seems to be more Huddersfield Bradford Todmorden trading runs booked today and the rest of the week.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O21827/2019/07/14/advanced.
K

 

[387star]

This, exactly.
This morning's train to work, which has been a 195 for a week now, was busier than I've seen it in a long while. I don't think it's a coincidence.

Which is why it is so frustrating so many new trains are short formed with no lessons being learnt from the crosscountry fiasco

 

[Matt_pool]

Which is why it is so frustrating so many new trains are short formed with no lessons being learnt from the crosscountry fiasco

The 8.16 from Lime Street to Manchester Airport is now operated by a 195 and it's always crowded. I'm sure they used to use 2 x Sprinters or 1 x Sprinter + 1 x Pacer coupled together on this route. Now it's down to 3 x carriages on a 195!

 

[Mathew S]

Which is why it is so frustrating so many new trains are short formed with no lessons being learnt from the crosscountry fiasco

Busy, certainly in this case, doesn't equal overcrowded. I travel regularly from Wigan - Manchester and, since it's been 195s rather than 158s, I haven't seen anyone have to stand for lack of seats (even if some inexplicably choose to do so). The 3-car 195s would seem to be just the right capacity. It's the continued use of 2-car 158s or 156s, and a lack of any ability to bolster services on special event days (cricket world cup being a recent example), that causes problems with crowding.

 

[Entertexthere]

I saw a 195/1 between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge this afternoon, at about 15:00. Any ideas of what the number was and what it was doing?

 

[hooverboy]

The 8.16 from Lime Street to Manchester Airport is now operated by a 195 and it's always crowded. I'm sure they used to use 2 x Sprinters or 1 x Sprinter + 1 x Pacer coupled together on this route. Now it's down to 3 x carriages on a 195!

this is ultimately the trade-off the bean counters want.
their aim is 80%+ capacity all day long, with as few a units running it as possible.

I guess the ideal solution for them would be to drop in an unpowered trailer on the back in peak times, but the logistics of getting said trailer to it's intended partner aren't really workable most of the time

2nd place goes to a powered set to connect

3rd place goes for an additonal peak/special event diagram(even a 2 car 158 might suffice)

however,glad to see the reaction to the 195's is in general very positive.

 

[_toommm_]

I saw a 195/1 between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge this afternoon, at about 15:00. Any ideas of what the number was and what it was doing?

5G14 - training runs between Huddersfield Sidings and Bradford Interchange.

 

[northernchris]

I saw a 195/1 between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge this afternoon, at about 15:00. Any ideas of what the number was and what it was doing?

More than likely 195110, I saw this at Bradford Interchange around 1400

 

[Entertexthere]

More than likely 195110, I saw this at Bradford Interchange around 1400

Cheers! I thought it was working the Leeds-Chester service initially

 

[Halifaxlad]

this is ultimately the trade-off the bean counters want.
their aim is 80%+ capacity all day long, with as few a units running it as possible.

I guess the ideal solution for them would be to drop in an unpowered trailer on the back in peak times, but the logistics of getting said trailer to it's intended partner aren't really workable most of the time

2nd place goes to a powered set to connect

3rd place goes for an additonal peak/special event diagram(even a 2 car 158 might suffice)

however,glad to see the reaction to the 195's is in general very positive.

You would probably have to put it in the centre since I don't think anything would be allowed to be un-powered on the back.

Quite like the idea thou although I do wonder the impact of it upon the remainder of the set at peak times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You would probably have to put it in the centre since I don't think anything would be allowed to be un-powered on the back.

Quite like the idea thou although I do wonder the impact of it upon the remainder of the set at peak times.

I think the South East commuter TOCs have by and large worked out that there's really no point bothering - the cost and complexity of shunting offsets the cost of carrying a bit of fresh air all day. Certainly when you're talking about one coach rather than forming down from say 12 to 4.

 

[northernchris]

Cheers! I thought it was working the Leeds-Chester service initially

Hopefully not too long now until they will be!

 

[Halifaxlad]

I think the South East commuter TOCs have by and large worked out that there's really no point bothering - the cost and complexity of shunting offsets the cost of carrying a bit of fresh air all day. Certainly when you're talking about one coach rather than forming down from say 12 to 4.

Surely if it was a centre car you would simply leave it in the set permanently ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely if it was a centre car you would simply leave it in the set permanently ?

I'd go for a powered one for that purpose - why slow the sets down? They're not overpowered unlike 185s where you could do that. I could certainly see a benefit in going 2->3 and 3->4.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I'd go for a powered one for that purpose - why slow the sets down? They're not overpowered unlike 185s where you could do that. I could certainly see a benefit in going 2->3 and 3->4.

My thoughts were only if they could manage it!

Shame thou, as we all know the more something costs the harder it is to justify it unless it is HS2.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You would probably have to put it in the centre since I don't think anything would be allowed to be un-powered on the back.

Someone better tell TPE, LNER, GA and all the freight operators then!

Some of the modernisation plan DMUs were occasionally formed of just trailer vehicles, with the intention of being used as peak-hour strengthening. That's all well and good until someone forgets that it's unpowered and allocates it to a solo duty. I believe this happened on occasion in the Birmingham area!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Someone better tell TPE, LNER, GA and all the freight operators then!

Some of the modernisation plan DMUs were occasionally formed of just trailer vehicles, with the intention of being used as peak-hour strengthening. That's all well and good until someone forgets that it's unpowered and allocates it to a solo duty. I believe this happened on occasion in the Birmingham area!

The Southern Region 4-TC units were unpowered MUs (with cabs etc) intended to either be coupled to a 4-REP (which was overpowered so as to haul them) or a Class 33.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The Southern Region 4-TC units were unpowered MUs (with cabs etc) intended to either be coupled to a 4-REP (which was overpowered so as to haul them) or a Class 33.

Indeed... no doubt there'd be red faces all round on the odd occasion one was expected to work a portion by itself!

 

[Harvey B]

You will never have a perfect launch. It's absurdly unrealistic.

On the relative scale the 195 launch has been a big success.

Unfortunately some point judge things in a fantasy utopia, not the real world

Of course it's worked.

Are you seriously suggesting that the trains are in the same condition and have the same number of issues as when they started testing? Testing will have identified and improved vast swathes of issues.

As for the point you keep raising about people thinking is acceptable. Some people accept its the real world and not some utopian fantasy dream.

Of course one of the main reasons the units are phased into service the way they are is so they can iron out these technical bugs/glitches in both the "guinea pig" units (the 195s and 331s that are already in service) and the units that are yet to enter passenger service.
The over reasons are due to driver training and probably also due to them doing X amount of miles empty (most likely on a test track somewhere) before the unit can be signed off for passenger use, but I'm not sure about that last part so can someone correct me If i'm wrong

 

[Harvey B]

always be teething problems with any new stock need to bed in first

Let's hope that, when all the 195s and 331s are in service, Northern can keep them on the correct routes as they seem unable to keep Pacers off Leeds - Manchester and 150s off Leeds - Nottingham.

They're also apparently running Pacers on the "So Called" Northern Connect service from Leeds to Chester (why they couldn't use 158s as a temporary measure until enough drivers are trained on the 195s for that route) but in my opinion running Pacers on Northern Connect routes defeat the object of Northern Connect services.
(this next part may go off topic but I apologize in advance) Pacers should really be short commuter routes such as Leeds to Knottingley or regional routes such as Leeds to Lancaster but running them on a service which should be run by the faster DMU's (the 158s and 195s) is a big no from me. The other reason why I think having routes like that timetabled as Pacers is because they'll just increase the journey time altogether. I'll repeat what I've said once again but that service should be run as a 158 until there are enough drivers trained on the 195s to work the route and also until there are enough 195s to run the route.
Once again Apologies for going off topic.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Someone better tell TPE, LNER, GA and all the freight operators then!

Some of the modernisation plan DMUs were occasionally formed of just trailer vehicles, with the intention of being used as peak-hour strengthening. That's all well and good until someone forgets that it's unpowered and allocates it to a solo duty. I believe this happened on occasion in the Birmingham area!

Working on the assumption that its a non-driving trailer here!

 

[Mathew S]

They're also apparently running Pacers on the "So Called" Northern Connect service from Leeds to Chester (why they couldn't use 158s as a temporary measure until enough drivers are trained on the 195s for that route) but in my opinion running Pacers on Northern Connect routes defeat the object of Northern Connect services.
(this next part may go off topic but I apologize in advance) Pacers should really be short commuter routes such as Leeds to Knottingley or regional routes such as Leeds to Lancaster but running them on a service which should be run by the faster DMU's (the 158s and 195s) is a big no from me. The other reason why I think having routes like that timetabled as Pacers is because they'll just increase the journey time altogether. I'll repeat what I've said once again but that service should be run as a 158 until there are enough drivers trained on the 195s to work the route and also until there are enough 195s to run the route.
Once again Apologies for going off topic.

Northern Connect hasn't started yet, so there are no such things as Northern Connect services, so-called or otherwise
Also, there are only so many 158s, they can't be everywhere.

 

[Harvey B]

Northern Connect hasn't started yet, so there are no such things as Northern Connect services, so-called or otherwise
Also, there are only so many 158s, they can't be everywhere.

Thanks

 

[Bovverboy]

On the relative scale the 195 launch has been a big success.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that, bearing in mind the number of occasions they've been unavailable, or failed in service (such as the one at Carnforth the other morning). You get the feeling that, in all the miles of testing, no-one thought to check that the doors worked okay.

 

[Chris217]

But there are Leeds to Chester services
operated by Northern,but no mention of
Northern Connect.
Haven't seen any Pacers on it though.
Sometimes they are 158s as 2 or 3 car or with a 153+158 combo.. But I have also noted single 150s on them too.

 

[Mathew S]

But there are Leeds to Chester services
operated by Northern,but no mention of
Northern Connect.
Haven't seen any Pacers on it though.
Sometimes they are 158s as 2 or 3 car or with a 153+158 combo.. But I have also noted single 150s on them too.

Northern Connect, assuming that all is still intended to run as intended, will have separate branding, and a "distinctive service offering". The latter, from what I can find out, basically means seat reservations, aircon, wifi, and catering facilities at stations. Once these services launch, which will now likely be May 2020 at the earliest (although I guess a limited rollout in December this year might be achievable if literally everything goes to plan between now and then) they will all be operated by 195s or 331s with the exception of the Carlisle to Newcastle route which will be operated by 158s that are refurbished to the same standard as the new trains.

This isn't about operating new services, per se, but rather about how those services are operated, what trains are used, and how that is branded and offered to the customer. The vast majority of what will be Northern Connect is simply about upgrading and rebranding existing services.

 

[Bornin1980s]

^Wasn't the plan that all Cl 195 DMUs would only work the Connect services, with none available for legacy services or stoppers?

 

[Halifaxlad]

catering facilities at stations

What are these ? 'Northern Connect' branding for vending machines ?

 

[Mathew S]

What are these ? 'Northern Connect' branding for vending machines ?

I don't think they even need to be branded.