EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Typhoon]

Because to misquote wikipedia on Orwell's 1984 ...

" ... the Two Minutes Hate is the daily, public period during which members of the Outer Party of Oceania must watch a film depicting the enemies of the state, specifically Jeremy Corbyn and his followers, to openly and loudly express hatred for them. "

Remember that as a nation, we still believe Thatcher's proclamation of an Enemy Within and poor old Jeremy is old enough to have been deemed tagged as such.

And to quote from the leader's speech

"And we know the mantra of the campaign that has just gone by, in case you have forgotten it and you probably have, it is deliver Brexit, unite the country and defeat Jeremy Corbyn - and that is what we are going to do.

"We are all going to defeat Jeremy Corbyn.

Not 'The Labour Party', not 'The Opposition', this is going to be personal. It will be 1983 all over again!

By the time of the forthcoming election no-one will have had a chance to forget the mantra, love it or loathe it!
(Although how this unites the country, I will never know.)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why is almost every single one of your posts in this thread, no matter what the topic at hand, somehow redirected to be a swipe at Corbyn and Labour?

A viewing of other posting submissions on this thread, especially in the post-May leadership period, will of course never reveal any trace of bias whatsoever against the Conservatives or their leadership and will always be phrased in considered phraseology.

"Let them without sin be the first to cast the stone"....or words of a similar ilk.

 

[radamfi]

A viewing of other posting submissions on this thread, especially in the post-May leadership period, will of course never reveal any trace of bias whatsoever against the Conservatives or their leadership and will always be phrased in considered phraseology.

"Let them without sin be the first to cast the stone"....or words of a similar ilk.

The trouble is, who are you going to vote for in future? If the Conservatives lead us into a no-deal Brexit, that is unforgivable. A lot of Tory voters will never vote for them again.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The trouble is, who are you going to vote for in future? If the Conservatives lead us into a no-deal Brexit, that is unforgivable. A lot of Tory voters will never vote for them again.

I assure you (most sincerely...as Hughie Green was want to say) that I will always vote for the same party that I have always voted for since I became eligible to vote in the late 1950s.

 

[DarloRich]

I assure you (most sincerely...as Hughie Green was want to say) that I will always vote for the same party that I have always voted for since I became eligible to vote in the late 1950s.

Communist Party of Britain?

Not 'The Labour Party', not 'The Opposition', this is going to be personal.

but this is correct as the Labour party no longer exists. It is now merely a vehicle for trots and corbyn fan boys

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And to quote from the leader's speech

Not 'The Labour Party', not 'The Opposition', this is going to be personal. It will be 1983 all over again!

By the time of the forthcoming election no-one will have had a chance to forget the mantra, love it or loathe it!
(Although how this unites the country, I will never know.)

If you are going on looks and general appearance, no one could ever take Johnson as exuding an air of leadership of the former state of East Germany, whereas Corbyn really looks the part...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Also, being concerned about money that should be spent on child poverty being instead spent on something utterly stupid and pointless doesn't require you to have a house painted in red while you molest a portrait of Joseph Stalin every morning and every night now does it?

You appear not to be aware of the feeling in our family, especially on my Polish fathers side, towards Stalin and the Warsaw Bloc, so in response to your comment above, a picture of Stalin would be the very last portrait to be on display in any of our homes. Since you really want to know of the external painted colour scheme for door and windows at my home (excluding PVC), it is a rather neutral shade of silver-grey.

 

[433N]

but this is correct as the Labour party no longer exists. It is now merely a vehicle for trots and corbyn fan boys

No, it isn't correct.

Corbyn sat on the backbenches for many years whilst the Labour Party lurched to the right - he knew the value of sticking together. Now it lurches to the left, all the right wing of the party have an attack of the vapours.

It might not be the Labour Party you want, but it is still the Labour Party.

 

[NoMorePacers]

No, it isn't correct.

Corbyn sat on the backbenches for many years whilst the Labour Party lurched to the right - he knew the value of sticking together. Now it lurches to the left, all the right wing of the party have an attack of the vapours.

It might not be the Labour Party you want, but it is still the Labour Party.

Would they rather have the Party led by someone who participated in an illegal war where war crimes were committed by any chance?

 

[Esker-pades]

Would they rather have the Party led by someone who participated in an illegal war where war crimes were committed by any chance?

Amazingly, those aren't the only two options. And it's not a good sign of the quality of debate/argument when it is presented as such.

 

[radamfi]

No, it isn't correct.

Corbyn sat on the backbenches for many years whilst the Labour Party lurched to the right - he knew the value of sticking together. Now it lurches to the left, all the right wing of the party have an attack of the vapours.

It might not be the Labour Party you want, but it is still the Labour Party.

The need for the Labour Party to include such diverse and incompatible factions is a result of the electoral system. Otherwise, you split the vote if such factions are in different parties. In countries with fairer voting systems, you can have parties of various shades of left/right/centrist/green etc. Corbyn and Blair would not need to share a party under such a system.

 

[mmh]

Not 'The Labour Party', not 'The Opposition', this is going to be personal. It will be 1983 all over again!

The Labour movement can't, or rather shouldn't, complain about the current personalisation of politics. They largely created it with the cultish behaviour around Corbyn.

The puerile chant, the sending him to Glastonbury and so on - they did that themselves, not the Tories.

 

[DarloRich]

No, it isn't correct.

Corbyn sat on the backbenches for many years whilst the Labour Party lurched to the right - he knew the value of sticking together. Now it lurches to the left, all the right wing of the party have an attack of the vapours.

It might not be the Labour Party you want, but it is still the Labour Party.

What a load of rubbish. The labour party is long gone. What we have now is not a political party but a personality cult built around an extremely flawed old man with views that the majority of the electorate consider crack pot.

His policy on Brexit is a confused mess of trying very hard to be all things to all men while committing to and supporting nothing.

You are right about one thing: it isn't the labour party I joined many, many years ago. Ending my membership has been liberating.

Would they rather have the Party led by someone who participated in an illegal war where war crimes were committed by any chance?

I would rather have someone with a chance of wining an election and, you know, actually helping people. It seems you would prefer ideological purity as opposed to delivering change. Therein lies the problem with Corbyn and his fanboys. They would rather shout from the sidelines like silly students than compromise and win power. But then power isn't what is important to them. What is important is taking over the labour party, it's structures, machinery, membership and access to money as it always has been with entryists.

 

[anme]

From LBC:

Why are they prepared to spend whatever it takes for this, but not for:
- ending the need for foodbanks
- eliminating poverty
- decent homes for everyone
- outstanding schools and colleges for everyone
- social care
- genuine dignity and quality of life for all disabled people
- ending homelessness
- a genuinely world class health service
...just for starters?

Let's not be too hard on Gove. He wants to spend money only on the things he cares about, and not waste it on the things he doesn't. He's not so different to us. It's just that we care more about the things on that list than about delivering brexit, whatever the cost.

 

[433N]

What a load of rubbish. The labour party is long gone. What we have now is not a political party but a personality cult built around an extremely flawed old man with views that the majority of the electorate consider crack pot.

About 21, 650 posts ago, you should have looked out the basics of netiquette and learnt to preface statements like this with 'IMHO' which means "In My Humble Opinion". You might need to look up the word 'humble' in a dictionary.

 

[DarloRich]

About 21, 650 posts ago, you should have looked out the basics of netiquette and learnt to preface statements like this with 'IMHO' which means "In My Humble Opinion". You might need to look up the word 'humble' in a dictionary.

Is that you disagreeing with my point or not?

Ps no idea or interest in whatever "netiquette" might be. My post was not rude or offensive.

 

[433N]

Is that you disagreeing with my point or not?

Ps no idea or interest in whatever "netiquette" might be. My post was not rude or offensive.

I said there is still a Labour Party.
You said "What a load of rubbish. The labour party is long gone."

Am I disagreeing with your point ? Hmmm, let me think. Yes I am. I still think that there is such a thing as the Labour Party.

You call my post 'rubbish' but you do not think that is rude. Hmmm, interesting.

It is patently obvious that you have no idea or interest in what netiquette is ... but I'll tell you anyway.

Netiquette is a way of writing on the internet so that what you say doesn't come across as rude or offensive.

 

[edwin_m]

Let's not be too hard on Gove. He wants to spend money only on the things he cares about, and not waste it on the things he doesn't. He's not so different to us. It's just that we care more about the things on that list than about delivering brexit, whatever the cost.

Not sure if that was meant in jest, but it's very hard to have sympathy with someone having such as skewed sense of priorities.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Would they rather have the Party led by someone who participated in an illegal war where war crimes were committed by any chance?

In what capacity did this person participate and what was the illegal war. In that war, were war crimes committed by both sides?

 

[najaB]

In what capacity did this person participate and what was the illegal war. In that war, were war crimes committed by both sides?

The second Gulf War was illegal inasmuch as there was no credible evidence that Iraq posed an imminent threat to any of the parties to the war, nor had Iraq attacked a member state of the UN. Those are the only justifications for one UN member state to attack another.

War crimes committed by one side do not justify those committed by the other.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The second Gulf War was illegal inasmuch as there was no credible evidence that Iraq posed an imminent threat to any of the parties to the war, nor had Iraq attacked a member state of the UN. Those are the only justifications for one UN member state to attack another.

Not so very many years prior to this, in the same part of the world, occurred the Iraq-Iran War. Some of the weaponry used were lethal, such as the use of chemical agents.

Were both Iraq and Iran as UN members justified in what occurred in the conduct of that war? Was that war "legal" in the terms you mention?

 

[EM2]

Were both Iraq and Iran as UN members justified in what occurred in the conduct of that war? Was that war "legal" in the terms you mention?

Whether it was or whether it wasn't, it was a completely separate conflict, and two supposed wrongs do not make a supposed right.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whether it was or whether it wasn't, it was a completely separate conflict, and two supposed wrongs do not make a supposed right.

I was drawing a comparison between two conflicts, in the same region and time period, where Iraq was one of the combatants in both of these conflicts.

 

[NoMorePacers]

The beheadings undertaken by groups like ISIS do not justify the undertakings in Abu Ghraib, for instance.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The beheadings undertaken by groups like ISIS do not justify the undertakings in Abu Ghraib, for instance.

One law for ISIS and another law for others?. You have to fully understand the mentality that ISIS espouses when you use them as a comparative.

Since you make mention of Abu Ghraib, you will be aware that Iraqi prison complex was opened in the 1950s period where political prisoners were kept in conditions that no civilised society would accept and torture and weekly executions were the norm.

 

[NoMorePacers]

One law for ISIS and another law for others?. You have to fully understand the mentality that ISIS espouses when you use them as a comparative.

Admittedly, using ISIS as a comparative would sink in a drydock, so I'll revise my statement.

The torture undertaken by dictators such as Saddam Hussein do not justify the undertakings in Abu Ghraib, for instance.

 

[DarloRich]

I said there is still a Labour Party.
You said "What a load of rubbish. The labour party is long gone."

Am I disagreeing with your point ? Hmmm, let me think. Yes I am. I still think that there is such a thing as the Labour Party.

You call my post 'rubbish' but you do not think that is rude. Hmmm, interesting.

It is patently obvious that you have no idea or interest in what netiquette is ... but I'll tell you anyway.

Netiquette is a way of writing on the internet so that what you say doesn't come across as rude or offensive.

You, like many here, have no idea what rude actually is. Sorry that my dismissal of your view wasnt soft enough for you.

The labour party that I was a member of for nearly 30 years has gone. It has been destroyed from within by the sort of silly trots we had to get rid of in the 80's. The problem is now is that one of them is leader and his acolytes have control of the mechanisms of the party.

The sad fact is that the level of delusion is such that they cant see the damage they have done or the contempt the majority of the electorate have for them. Labour are as far away from power as they have been for many years at a time when an even half competent leader would he booking removals for the move to number 10. Instead the current leadership seem to have a competition to find new and interesting ways to appear inept.

I was told, perhaps by people like you, to f off and vote for someone else. So I did. Way to seize power.

Edit - and I am glad I took that advice because I no longer have to be bound to support the massively schizophrenic policy the corbyn inspired party has developed

 

[najaB]

Were both Iraq and Iran as UN members justified in what occurred in the conduct of that war? Was that war "legal" in the terms you mention?

You are conflating 'jus ad bellum' with 'jus en bello'. The Iran-Iraq War was, at least on paper, justified by Iraq's claim that Iran breached the Algiers Accord (though, of course, there is the separate question of if they could actually withdraw unilaterally).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The torture and weekly execution incidents involving political prisoners that were daily features in the Abu Ghraib prison complex when it opened in the 1950s as I mentioned in my earlier posting can in no way be compared to what occurred there when the US Army used this as a base for post-war investigations.

I may be decried for expressing a belief that in that region, there still is a tribalistic hegemony.

 

[Esker-pades]

Edit - and I am glad I took that advice because I no longer have to be bound to support the massively schizophrenic policy the corbyn inspired party has developed

I don't understand the use of "schizophrenic" in this context. Could you explain please?