Luton-Dunstable

[philjo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8559860.stm

More than £80m in government funding to build an 8.3 mile (13.4km) guided busway in Bedfordshire has been issued.

Luton Borough and Central Bedfordshire councils have welcomed the announcement by Transport Minister Sadiq Khan.

"This enables us to proceed with appointing a main contractor for the busway between Luton and Dunstable," a spokesman said.

"Detailed design work will begin in April and site works will start in the summer for opening in spring 2012."

Roy Davis, from Luton Borough Council, said: "This is the start of a new era for dealing with the congestion problems of Luton and the surrounding conurbation.

'Boost economy'

"The Luton-Dunstable busway is the right way to resolve the difficulties we have experienced up until now."

Tom Nicols, from Central Bedfordshire Council, said: "Currently, it takes a conventional bus more than 30 minutes to do the six-mile journey from Dunstable town centre to Luton train station.

"There is also a potential risk that the journey will take much longer if there is bad traffic in the town centre.

"Services on the busway will reliably take about 15 minutes.

"Cutting journey times in half will help join up residential and development areas with business and employment, and boost the economy of Dunstable and surrounding areas."

Another crazy idea.... Integrating the rail line into Thameslink would be much better.
15 minutes for 6 miles doesn't seem very quick !
A train could do it in at least half the time depending on line speed.

There was an item on the BBC Look East late bulletin last night saying that Cambridge council have no idea when the Cambridge Guided busway will open & it is now over 1 year late and at least double the planned budget.
The news mentioned that one section of the route has been flooded continuously since last October as it was built on low lying land so the drains overflowed....

 

[David Sinnett]

I agree with what you say and I would support a branch of the TL. However, I think that would be useful largely only to commuters and not people going to Luton town centre.It would regenerate Dunstable even more as a commuter town.
Perhaps the railways are seen as a more 'select' operation and buses are for everyone?

 

[tripleseis]

What a waste of money! A railway line would be much more feasable.

 

[royaloak]

But railways are so last year, (mis)guided busways are the future , I mean look at the 4 cup in Cambridgeshire :roll:.

 

[Kinghambranch]

What a waste of money! A railway line would be much more feasable.

Yes indeed, I could not agree more. Railways are the future but there are still a few 1970s dinosaurs about who only remember the dominance of the internal combustion engine. Time will tell. The Cambridgeshire fiasco should be a clear warning to all but Luton has been sold some "snake oil" in my view.

 

[starrymarkb]

It depends, do the masses from Dunstable want to go to London, or do they want to go into Luton, if the former then train, if the latter then without a reversal or double back a train would be would be usless! Oh and you'd have lots of conflicts on the MML

Edit: I stand corrected on the reversal - thought the Dunstable branch fed in nearer Parkway...

With the Guided bus it can also serve the local estates...

 

[Mojo]

Another loony misguided busway nobody wants is being forced upon the residents of Greater Bristol thanks to the inequality with this government when it comes between funding of rail and bus projects and the weakness of the four local authorities (who refuse to get together and form a transport authority). The latest is that the section of the Portishead line not currently being used for freight, and was recently bought by North Somerset Council may also be turned into a loony busway instead of the railway line that everyone was hoping for.

Edit: this just out, read the report about the Cambridgeshire loony busway: http://www2.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/d...759179cacced8509802576e1003c7df2?OpenDocument

 

[4SRKT]

While I am generally an enthusiast for guided busways, in this case, where a railway already exists and there are plenty of trains terminating at Luton already, I have to say that this seems crazy.

When I say I'm an enthusiast for guideways, I mean in the form they have been used in Leeds and Bradford, not crazy schemes like this and that utterly bonkers one in Cambridge.

 

[tbtc]

...because of course every railway project gets built on time and on budget, and delays/ price rises are unique to guided busways, right?

I think its a good move, with the proviso that if it works out then there's scope to introduce a rail based replacement (bear in mind that the guided busway in Edinburgh is becoming part of the tram - you can upgrade the line like that)

For a route with no rail traffic in recent years, it'd be a lot cheaper to use this busway as a way of gauging demand to see whether its worth building a rail based scheme (say for every 100 bus passengers, there'd be potentially 125/ 150 train passengers).

I find it a shame that public transport enthusiasts are so against other forms of public transport

 

[yorksrob]

It depends, do the masses from Dunstable want to go to London, or do they want to go into Luton, if the former then train, if the latter then without a reversal or double back a train would be would be usless! Oh and you'd have lots of conflicts on the MML

Edit: I stand corrected on the reversal - thought the Dunstable branch fed in nearer Parkway...

With the Guided bus it can also serve the local estates...

I suppose that if the citizens of Dunstable are happy to be sidelined as a suburb of Luton, then the guided busway isn't such a bad idea. Afterall, buses will quite easily get lots of people into the neighbouring population/business centres. If however, they wish to gain a wider recognition in the country as a civic entity in their own right, then they should hold out for a rail link into the wider national network.

 

[4SRKT]

Dunstable is a sizeable community in its own right, and needs to be careful to preserve that. Otherwise it's in danger to becoming a Bradford to Luton's Leeds. Anyway, is Luton station so badly sited for the town centre that Dunstable folk who want to travel to Luton wouldn't use it?

 

[gordonthemoron]

Given that Luton is far worse than Bradford, how bad is Dunstable?

 

[tripleseis]

I find it a shame that public transport enthusiasts are so against other forms of public transport

Not true for me at least, but a rail based alternative sounds better than a bus alternative, that will still have to fight traffic away from the busway. Busways have their place, but not sure replacing this railway line will work.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Given that Luton is far worse than Bradford, how bad is Dunstable?

Dunstable's OK, it's Luton that's the dump. The problem is that all the commuter types in Dunstable, have to drive into Luton every day to get the train. The road between the two gridlocks.

The ability to run a couple of Thameslinks an hour "around the corner" into Dunstable would do a lot to ease this, plus would reduce platform congestion in Luton.

Interestingly, the 319's used to have "Dunstable" on their destination blinds. Looks like BR recognised the potential of this route. Let's just hope that we get a change of government, and that the rail option gets considered.

Needless to say, there's a "preservation scheme" associated with this route. This is probably the most hare brained that I've ever seen!

http://www.south_bedfordshire_railway.webs.com/

You too could ride in a clapped out DMU, through an industrial wasteland!

 

[gordonthemoron]

Whilst not using DMUs, middleton railway appears to run largely through an industrial estate

 

[Kinghambranch]

Dunstable's OK, it's Luton that's the dump. The problem is that all the commuter types in Dunstable, have to drive into Luton every day to get the train. The road between the two gridlocks.

The ability to run a couple of Thameslinks an hour "around the corner" into Dunstable would do a lot to ease this, plus would reduce platform congestion in Luton.

Interestingly, the 319's used to have "Dunstable" on their destination blinds. Looks like BR recognised the potential of this route. Let's just hope that we get a change of government, and that the rail option gets considered.

Needless to say, there's a "preservation scheme" associated with this route. This is probably the most hare brained that I've ever seen!

http://www.south_bedfordshire_railway.webs.com/

You too could ride in a clapped out DMU, through an industrial wasteland!

Yes, I wondered how long it would be before the infamous Dunstable Heritage Railway project (twinned with Helmand) would be mentioned! Now although I know I'm seen as 2 stops away from Barking regarding my views on pushing ahead with the entire Somerset and Dorset and some other lines too, this Dunstable one is really at the "beep-beep" end of the scale!

 

[Bedpan]

For a route with no rail traffic in recent years, it'd be a lot cheaper to use this busway as a way of gauging demand to see whether its worth building a rail based scheme (say for every 100 bus passengers, there'd be potentially 125/ 150 train passengers).

I find it a shame that public transport enthusiasts are so against other forms of public transport

In the case of the Dunstable branch, much if not most of the track is still in situ.

As far as I can tell, few people in Dunstable want a busway, and I haven't heard any particular support for it in Luton either. As for Luton Station, is is only 5 minutes walk from the Arndale Centre (main shopping mall) and between the two is the site of the old Bute Street station where the Dunstable branch platform would presumably be situated if the branck is ever reconnected to the main line.

I don't know if I'm missing something but what is the point of guided busways? What is it about them that makes them better than ordinary buses running on dedicated roads? On the Cambridge scheme, they have to be driven like an ordinary bus every time they cross a road, and then slotted back into the busway on the other side.

In the Luton -Dunstable case I would have thought that reopening the railway line was infinitely better, or alternatively converting the branch to a tram line if there was no prospect of a link up to the main line.

 

[asylumxl]

Luton's a dump? Have you looked at Dunstable's town centre recently. It's decaying and empty. And as for the town, it's absolutely crawling with chavs! Why not just admit you're biggoted and dislike Luton?

Oh and the comparison to Bradford? Nothing to do with the Asian communities both places have?

 

[paul1609]

Needless to say, there's a "preservation scheme" associated with this route. This is probably the most hare brained that I've ever seen!

http://www.south_bedfordshire_railway.webs.com/

You too could ride in a clapped out DMU, through an industrial wasteland!

I though the East Lancs railway already catered for that market quite well!

 

[E&W Lucas]

Why not just admit you're biggoted and dislike Luton?

 

[yorksrob]

I don't know if I'm missing something but what is the point of guided busways? What is it about them that makes them better than ordinary buses running on dedicated roads? On the Cambridge scheme, they have to be driven like an ordinary bus every time they cross a road, and then slotted back into the busway on the other side.

I suppose that where you have a large number of bus routes converging on an urban main road (for example the York Road in Leeds) they can segregate the bus traffic and perhaps speed it up a little.

Unfortunately, they seem to be used more and more as a cheap and nasty substitute to rail reopenings.

 

[Mojo]

I find it a shame that public transport enthusiasts are so against other forms of public transport

I have actual reasons for my dislike of buses, having studied them comprehensively both in an academic, campaigning and personal capacity, and can find no evidence, in Britain, that buses are successful, represent value for money, aid regeneration, or facilitate modal shift.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Some places have good bus services, e.g. Nottingham & London. But bus provision elsewhere is at best confusing, Leeds & Manchester or non-existant

 

[4SRKT]

Luton's a dump? Have you looked at Dunstable's town centre recently. It's decaying and empty. And as for the town, it's absolutely crawling with chavs! Why not just admit you're biggoted and dislike Luton?

Oh and the comparison to Bradford? Nothing to do with the Asian communities both places have?

Well, the original comparison made by me suggested that Dunstable was in danger of ending up with the same relationship to Luton (i.e. totally dominated by a neighbouring, better connected place) that Bradford has to Leeds. So actually the place being compared with Bradford was Dunstable, not Luton. I live in Bradford and am constantly on the look out for racist slurs about the place (which is actually a great place to live), and I've not detected any here.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I doubt that Dunstable has as many great curry houses as Bradford (or even Leeds)

 

[tbtc]

I have actual reasons for my dislike of buses, having studied them comprehensively both in an academic, campaigning and personal capacity, and can find no evidence, in Britain, that buses are successful, represent value for money, aid regeneration, or facilitate modal shift.

Not even in Edinburgh?

There are good bus companies and bad bus companies, in the way there are good TOCs and bad TOCs.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Bad bus companies:

First
Arriva
Stagecoach

 

[Mojo]

Not even in Edinburgh?

I still maintain that the number of people who, if they have a car on the driveway, would happily use buses, is lower than for rail. In addition, there is no evidence that buses aid regeneration or create inward investment for an area.

In Britain the public image of buses is that they are slow and uncomfortable and transport for the poor, even in London (whose bus network loses millions of pounds per year).

 

[Greenback]

There ar emany people where I live who will happily use a train but not a bus. It;s not really surprising, day return to Swansea by bus £5.75, jounrey time 30 mins (fast) 1 hour (slow). Day return to Swansea by train £4.30, jounrey time 17-20 mins.

Also, buses are a very rare species indeed after 1730, whereas the last train is at 0045!

I would expect a guided busway to be run liek a bus service (hopeless) rather than a rails ervice!

 

[142094]

Bad bus companies:

First
Arriva
Stagecoach

Sounds like a list of bad rail companies as well...